Chester Zoo Chester Zoo Discussion and Questions 2022

@Embu @Pertinax. This was the post (from 15 years ago):
Pertinax said:
I'm certain the marked change in Thi's attitude with the third calf(assam) was due to (accidentally) giving birth in the group and having support from Sheba made her calmer.As this was the first calf to stay with her, it was the equivalent of her being a first time mother, so she needed help until she became competent.

After the later stillbirth, she partially adopted Sithami's newborn calf(Sundara)- the headkeeper told me they split the care about 60/40 (Thi being in charge..) Sithami was obviously learning from Thi - just as Thi had done previously from Sheba. So Thi has had three successful calves of her own, and helped rear her granddaughter too.
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To be fair, it wasn’t stated as fact; but more an assessment of what likely contributed to Thi’s change in behaviour.

Sheba lost her first calf (a full term male) following an incident in 1974 when she was pushed into the exhibit moat. This calf was sired by Nobby and would have been the first of his species born in Britain. Her second calf was the hybrid Motty, born in 1978, who lived only days.

Sheba doted on Jubilee, who was celebrated as Britain’s first elephant calf when he was born in 1977 and apparently gave Judy significant help in raising him.

It’s nice to think she gave Thi the same assistance and while she never had a successful calf of her own; was instrumental to the success of Chester’s breeding programme nonetheless.
 
Although Sheba didn’t have biological Calfs,she adopted Upali. Upali was 2 years old when he arrived at Chester, having been hand reared at Zurich. In later years Upali went onto become the breeding Bull. Upali had many Calf’s. Unfortunately only Sundara Upali’s oldest prodigy lived to maturity. Incidentally Sundara is now 18 and the matriarch of Chester’s Hi-Way Family (Elephant Herd).As of now Sundara has a Couple of surviving Calfs. Thease are both Cowes. This trio is the future of the Hi-Way herd at Chester. Tragically Upali’s other Calfs at Chester passed away from EEHV,between the ages of 2-3. In a fortunate twist of fate Upali was the Bull at Dublin Zoo for some years. He Sired 8 Calf’s there. All of these are still alive. The majority are still at Dublin. A couple of the elder Calf’s were exported to Australia a few years ago. Next year more of Upali’s Calfs will emigrate to the USA.
 
Zoofan15 said:
According to a few people on here, Karha died from congenital digestive system abnormalities, which were aggravated by her swallowing a stone.
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Thanks for the confirmation. I thought I had read somewhere there was a chance she may have been Chester's first case of EEHV, but that may have been wrong.

Zoofan15 said:
@Embu @Pertinax. This was the post (from 15 years ago):


To be fair, it wasn’t stated as fact; but more an assessment of what likely contributed to Thi’s change in behaviour.

Sheba lost her first calf (a full term male) following an incident in 1974 when she was pushed into the exhibit moat. This calf was sired by Nobby and would have been the first of his species born in Britain. Her second calf was the hybrid Motty, born in 1978, who lived only days.

Sheba doted on Jubilee, who was celebrated as Britain’s first elephant calf when he was born in 1977 and apparently gave Judy significant help in raising him.

It’s nice to think she gave Thi the same assistance and while she never had a successful calf of her own; was instrumental to the success of Chester’s breeding programme nonetheless.
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And Hari (Sundara's first calf) was also raised by both Thi and Sithami as well, but more so Thi once Sithami gave birth to Bala a few months later.

Sheba was quite a supportive female for Thi, and was quite close with the Hi Way family up until her death in 2011. It was a different story for cows such as Kumara, Birma and Jangoli who never really affiliated well with the Hi Ways.

The Hedgehog said:
Although Sheba didn’t have biological Calfs,she adopted Upali. Upali was 2 years old when he arrived at Chester, having been hand reared at Zurich.
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That's interesting. Upali arrived when he was less than three, so this may have certainly been the case. He may have also been reason for why Thi was able to raise Sithami later that year. She may have learnt from seeing Sheba with Upali, and also been able to experience a calf, albeit an older one, herself.
 
I think apart from sheba who was really close to the hi ways the only elephant who is quite close to the hi ways is maya because on my last visit I saw her looking after Riva
 
Zoofan15 said:
Sheba doted on Jubilee, who was celebrated as Britain’s first elephant calf when he was born in 1977 and apparently gave Judy significant help in raising him.
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From memory, Jubilee grew up at Chester without any male presence i.e. a bull or male siblings, at least during his formative years. He seemed to be less than a normal bull as a result and suffered from periods of ill health sometimes. He was later moved to Belfast but he never bred, though I'm not sure they had any suitable cows.
 
hari Jones said:
I think apart from sheba who was really close to the hi ways the only elephant who is quite close to the hi ways is maya because on my last visit I saw her looking after Riva
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Maya may be quite closer to them now, with Sundara as matriarch, although she was often distant from the rest of the herd when Thi was around. Maya's always been quite a laid back elephant.

Pertinax said:
From memory, Jubilee grew up at Chester without any male presence i.e. a bull or male siblings, at least during his formative years. He seemed to be less than a normal bull as a result and suffered from periods of ill health sometimes. He was later moved to Belfast but he never bred, though I'm not sure they had any suitable cows.
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Yes, his father, Nobby died before his birth. The first bull he met was Chang, but Chang (who was a young bull himself) arrived once Jubilee was already pretty much a fully grown bull.

I did hear Jubilee was unnaturally close to the females, especially his mother Judy and 'aunty' Sheba. I think he was later moved to Belfast to make space for breeding, and also the new recently arrived young bull, Upali.
 
Khara died because she had a birth defect making it impossible for her to digest solid food, if my memory is correct.
 
I thought she died shortly after she swallowed a stone however I wasn't around for when she was born did she survive the operation to remove the stone
 
Thinking about it, I think that defect was only discovered after she died. Sorry. Hidden illnesses can be a problem.
 
Can anyone tell me what a 1.2.0 means (this is a example as I see people put jaguar 1.0.0) what do the numbers mean
 
Male.Female.Unsexed.

So in your hypothetical, one male and two females.
 
Pertinax said:
From memory, Jubilee grew up at Chester without any male presence i.e. a bull or male siblings, at least during his formative years. He seemed to be less than a normal bull as a result and suffered from periods of ill health sometimes. He was later moved to Belfast but he never bred, though I'm not sure they had any suitable cows.
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The first bull that Jubilee met was an African bull named Bubbles (Jumbolino). There was a story about Jubilee I read as a child that detailed the fears the keepers had about letting him out on exhibit - the dangers of the moat (whether to fill it with water or straw) and how the bull might react to him.

In actuality, the bull proved to be gentle. I don’t know what age they were introduced (the story implied very young), but either way the bull died when he was two years old, so his influence on him would have been minimal. This bull sired the hybrid (Motty) who born to Sheba in 1978.

The story detailed plans to transfer two cows to Chester on breeding loan to mate with Jubilee (from memory, Twycross). The database lists two cows (Tonzi and Mimbu) as arriving from Twycross in 1996 and leaving 12 months later in 1997. They both conceived, however this was to Chang. Jubilee was exported a year later in 1998. My assumption would be they tried with Jubilee first, then switched to Chang.
 
Zoofan15 said:
The story detailed plans to transfer two cows to Chester on breeding loan to mate with Jubilee (from memory, Twycross). The database lists two cows (Tonzi and Mimbu) as arriving from Twycross in 1996 and leaving 12 months later in 1997. They both conceived, however this was to Chang. Jubilee was exported a year later in 1998. My assumption would be they tried with Jubilee first, then switched to Chang.
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Yes, I remember Jumbolino/Bubbles, he was the only bull they had at the time, and only Asian cows, hence the remarkable hybrid incident of 'Motty'. I also remember Tonzi and Mimbu going to Chester for mating. Both produced female calves back at Chester. Tara is still in the ex Twycross group while Karishma was later moved to Whipsnade when she became difficult to handle.There was some mention at the time that Jubilee had 'put his past problems behind him' indicating health issues perhaps. He was tuskless and didn't look very masculine. Possibly lack of contact with a mature bull during his growing years might have been the reason. For the record, Mimbu is still with us, now as the matriarch of the ex Twycross group living at Blackpool.
 
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Pertinax said:
Yes, I remember Jumbolino/Bubbles, he was the only bull they had at the time, and only Asian cows, hence the remarkable hybrid incident of 'Motty'. I also remember Tonzi and Mimbu going to Chester for mating. Both produced female calves back at Chester. Tara is still in the ex Twycross group while Karishma was later moved to Whipsnade when she became difficult to handle.There was some mention at the time that Jubilee had 'put his past problems behind him' indicating health issues perhaps. He was tuskless and didn't look very masculine. Possibly lack of contact with a mature bull during his growing years might have been the reason. For the record, Mimbu is still with us, now as the matriarch of the ex Twycross group living at Blackpool.
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London also sent two cows (Mya and Geeta) for a period of a few months in the early 90's which may have been in an attempt of breeding them too.

Jubilee grew with only his mother Judy, plus a couple of 'aunties'. As he matured, he seemed not to be very 'bull-like'- lacking tusks or the powerful build of a male elephant.

He was eventually sent to Belfast Zoo to make space for the bulls, Chang and Upali. It was hoped he would breed there. At the time of his arrival though, the youngest female was already in her mid 20's. Jothi (the only female who had ever bred) had previously had a calf just a year before Jubilee's arrival. It's unknown if Jubilee ever mated with the Belfast or Chester girls.

Jubilee had a lot of health issues too, although its worth noting he died while under anaesthetic while repairing his only remaining tusk which he had broken.
 
Pertinax said:
Yes, I remember Jumbolino/Bubbles, he was the only bull they had at the time, and only Asian cows, hence the remarkable hybrid incident of 'Motty'. I also remember Tonzi and Mimbu going to Chester for mating. Both produced female calves back at Chester. Tara is still in the ex Twycross group while Karishma was later moved to Whipsnade when she became difficult to handle.There was some mention at the time that Jubilee had 'put his past problems behind him' indicating health issues perhaps. He was tuskless and didn't look very masculine. Possibly lack of contact with a mature bull during his growing years might have been the reason. For the record, Mimbu is still with us, now as the matriarch of the ex Twycross group living at Blackpool.
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@Pertinax (The Ape Expert) what caused Karishma’s hostile behaviour at Twycross? Following her transfer to Whipsnade Zoo in 2006 Karishma has been a mellow character.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax (The Ape Expert) what caused Karishma’s hostile behaviour at Twycross? Following her transfer to Whipsnade Zoo in 2006 Karishma has been a mellow character.
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Karishma was showing aggression towards her keepers and disobeying commands. There was concern the behaviour could escalate, so she was moved to Whipsnade who had the facilities to manage her in protected contact if necessary. It was an unusual move given it went against guidelines of keeping mothers and daughters together.

The transfer meant Karishma had no support from her mother and went into the herd as a low ranking individual. This was apparently enough to mellow out her behaviour and there’s been no further issues reported.
 
@Zoofan15 it sounds like the fault may have lied with some of the Elephant Keepers rather than with Karishma. Maybe all Karishma needed was further stimulation,and attentive keepers. Think of a young Child at school being given easy lessons by a boring teacher. They will miss behave. In contrast if a Child has fun but challenging lessons with an enthusiastic teacher they’ll behave better. It’s the same with Elephant Calfs which Karishma was back in 2006.

My evidence is that challenging Elephants don’t change. A prime example is Mya,she was disruptive at London and the same when transferred to Whipsnade. In fact Mya caused a ruckus between the herd,this led to the herd being split. Once Mya went to Spain in 2019 the herd was simultaneously reunited as one. Since then there’s been no further problems.
 
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