Lets hope Tarongas herd don’t start lagging behind Melbournes because of the bigger gaps between breeding their cows, I can see Melbournes herd being a ran away success once established at Werribee barring unforeseen problems
Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022
- Thread starter Amberangel112
- Start date
- Status
The ironic thing is Taronga have four viable founder cows (Porntip, Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Anjalee) between their zoos; while Werribee will only have two (Dokoon and Num Oi). Yet Werribee will have the increased capacity to breed at regular intervals.
Combined with the fact Dokoon is to date the only one of these six females with a reproductive age daughter (who’s currently pregnant) and the Werribee cows will soon become very well represented on a regional level. Even with the new cow and calf facilities at Taronga (which will increase their holding capacity), it’s hard to imagine them making maximum use of the founders they have.
On hindsight, it’s a shame Anjalee couldn’t have joined the Werribee herd. It would have meant waiting to export her until 2024, but this would have only delayed her reproduction until 18 years of age (comparable to three of our founder females); and now Auckland Zoo will likely be left with Burma until 2024 if they pursue the US export route.
Perth Zoo make statement on rehoming elephants:
This article from today briefly discussed the next step for rehoming Putra Mas and Permai: Perth Zoo farewells Tricia the elephant
The zoo will search interstate and overseas for an open-range park that can house its two younger elephants, Permai and Putra Mas.
"We're not going to rush it. We're going to care for them in the immediate aftermath of Tricia's passing," Environment Minister Reece Whitby told reporters on Thursday.
There’s a couple of things to take from this:
As evidenced by their refusal to take Burma, Taronga Western Plains Zoo will not consider taking Permai. This basically means the extent of the inter-state search will be assessing if Zoos Victoria/Werribee will take both elephants in 2024; before commencing discussions with US zoos if the answer is no on Permai (we’re assuming they’ll accept Putra Mas).
Perth Zoo have emphasised they’re not in an immediate rush to phase out their elephants - which is a good thing, as it appears logistically speaking they’ll be unable to go anywhere until 2024 regardless of the destination.
This article from today briefly discussed the next step for rehoming Putra Mas and Permai: Perth Zoo farewells Tricia the elephant
The zoo will search interstate and overseas for an open-range park that can house its two younger elephants, Permai and Putra Mas.
"We're not going to rush it. We're going to care for them in the immediate aftermath of Tricia's passing," Environment Minister Reece Whitby told reporters on Thursday.
There’s a couple of things to take from this:
As evidenced by their refusal to take Burma, Taronga Western Plains Zoo will not consider taking Permai. This basically means the extent of the inter-state search will be assessing if Zoos Victoria/Werribee will take both elephants in 2024; before commencing discussions with US zoos if the answer is no on Permai (we’re assuming they’ll accept Putra Mas).
Perth Zoo have emphasised they’re not in an immediate rush to phase out their elephants - which is a good thing, as it appears logistically speaking they’ll be unable to go anywhere until 2024 regardless of the destination.
Perhaps they can take Permai on welfare grounds shipping an older elephant all the way to the US would not be a better option,with the amount of yards and space at Werribee surely its possible to find a spot for her there
I imagine she’d assimilate easily into their herd. The Melbourne cows adjusted seamlessly into life as a herd bearing in mind the Thai cows were strangers to each other prior to their export in 2006; and their introduction to Mek Kepah (a mature cow) meant integrating her with Dokoon, who was by then 13 years old.
It’s not hard to imagine Dokoon was identified as an easy going personality over Porntip and Pak Boon, who may have clashed with Mek Kepah and were instead sent to Taronga.
In addition, Permai has lived all as the subordinate to the matriach Tricia since her arrival as a three year old calf. I don’t see any scenario where she’d attempt to challenge the Werribee matriarch; and I’m sure she’d be fascinated by the calves given they’d be a novel concept to her!
Perth Zoo plan to donate Tricia to the WA Museum:
Larger than life: What will happen to Tricia and her Perth Zoo elephant family now?
“At this stage there is some communication between the Zoo and Museum of WA, so there is a move for her remains to be put in the care of the museum and then a possible future at the museum.”
Attenborough said the zoo was working with the WA Museum Boola Bardip to make sure that Tricia could continue to be an extraordinary ambassador for her species, just as she was in life.
“They’ll be keeping her in a safe place for a little while,” she said “Then we’ll have some really respectful conversations when the time is right about how to appropriately recognise her legacy and again make sure she can continue to be that ambassador for her species.”
Larger than life: What will happen to Tricia and her Perth Zoo elephant family now?
“At this stage there is some communication between the Zoo and Museum of WA, so there is a move for her remains to be put in the care of the museum and then a possible future at the museum.”
Attenborough said the zoo was working with the WA Museum Boola Bardip to make sure that Tricia could continue to be an extraordinary ambassador for her species, just as she was in life.
“They’ll be keeping her in a safe place for a little while,” she said “Then we’ll have some really respectful conversations when the time is right about how to appropriately recognise her legacy and again make sure she can continue to be that ambassador for her species.”
Swanson02
Well-Known Member
I hope the elephants in captivity debate will die off once most of our elephants are located in large open-range settings. We are heading to a future where only the two Sydney zoos will hold elephants in smaller exhibits. Monarto as mentioned by myself and many others before is the only viable new future holder of this species in the region, thus them joining would be a massive boost.
Unfortunately, Monarto hasn't officially announced whether they as an organisation are still interested in holding elephants, let alone if they will be African or Asian, or even further, whether they plan to hold a non-breeding/bachelor or breeding herd. So a lot of this is speculation, from chats with keepers I still believe they are interested in elephants (likely Asian) but are still a long way off from getting them, possibly 2035/40.
A bit of speculation but if Monarto were to house a breeding herd how would they form it? I see this as less likely than a bachelor herd, but it is still a possibility
Personally, I could see Monarto receiving Num Oi her matrilineal line/calves and Kulab (a close friend of hers). This move would essentially split the Werribee herd down already developing fault lines. In 15-20 years, Dokoons matrilineal line could be quite large, with herself, Mali and potentially 2-4 other young adult daughters/granddaughters, not to mention calves. Therefore I could see both space and social issues arising at Werribee. Once at Monarto I could see Num Oi's line paired with one of the young Irish bulls from Sydney, as he will be unrelated to her daughters (unlike Luk Chai) and also still relatively young (unlike Putra Mas who will be close to 50 by then). Monarto could also use a matrineal line from TWPZ as its founder but I don't know which one.
This will be a great way to honour her, she's probably one of the most influential elephants in Australasian history.
Last edited:
Dubbo don’t have the space for either. That really only leaves Werribee once it opens.
From visiting today, construction has recently begun for the elephant complex, but they have only done much as clearing out the land and bringing in some steel poles ect. They plan to have it all done and ready by summer of 2023/24, so they could receive Melbourne’s bulls and Putra Mas as early as then.
I’d think Permai would slot easily into Melbourne’s herd. Mek Kapah and Dokkoon are quite easy going matriarchs and Mek Kapah accepted the Thai cows immediately without any hesitation. Both Kulab and Num Oi are also not over the top; and adding the fact that Permai is a submissive cow, it could work quite seamlessly.
Swanson02
Well-Known Member
Good to see they have at least begun the construction process though
I would not be to surprised if they pushed through the construction to get it all finished now and get it completed now 3 calfs are expected and shipping over Perths two might be speeded up somewhat!
Although Werribee was never considered by Auckland Zoo as a destination for Burma as they wouldn’t be able to receive her until 2024 (they wanted to phase out ASAP); now they’re faced with an export to the US, which would also take until 2024, I wonder if they’d approach Werribee with a proposal to send Burma over there.
Like with Permai, she’d easily assimilate into the herd and it’d be a good way to bolster female numbers. Three calves are due within the year, but there’s no guarantee there won’t be an onslaught of male calves within this cohort or future cohorts.
Unfortunately for Auckland, they don’t have Putra Mas to use as a bargaining chip.
If Monarto were to form a breeding herd, it’d probably be preferable to receive cows from Taronga Western Plains Zoo. Removing from Num Oi and her line from Werribee would reduce their herd to a single matriarchal line which wouldn’t be ideal genetically. AI would then have to be undertaken to mix up the genetics from the bulls they had on site.
Speaking frankly, Taronga have more cows than they know what to do with (four). None are being bred at even close to capacity with 7-8 year birth intervals between their calves. For the sake of succession, they’d probably prefer to retain Porntip (1992) and Kanlaya (2018); along with Anjalee (2006). This would free up Pak Boon (1992) and Thong Dee (1997) to transfer to Monarto. Of course this is based around the current population. Monarto could easily be a decade away from acquiring elephants and by then the herd structure at Taronga could look very different (depending on who gives birth to what); combined with the fact the 1992 cows will be at the end of their reproductive lifespan.
I think a bachelor herd for Monarto will be quite likely. Within a decades time, there will be a variety of juvenile males from both Werribee and Dubbo.
Werribee’s size will allow for them to hold offspring of Dokkoon, Mali and Num Oi for certain. It’ll be 50 acres and I was told could hold up to twenty five elephants.
If Monarto were to receive a breeding group, Thong Dee, Anjalee and any daughters may be the best route to go.
It’s quite frankly at the same stage as the Bison enclosure construction (which was originally scheduled to open 2021!). It’s definitely been prioritised due to delays with construction thanks to covid, but it’s really great to know it’ll still be on track.
I was actually just thinking this!
Considering Werribee could be ready to receive in 18 months time, I can definitely see Auckland being able to wait this long, especially as a transfer to the US, even if decided now will still take around the same time until it comes to fruition.
Werribee’s also only a three hour flight, and I imagine would be much more preferable than sending her on a long flight all the way over to the US, where candidates are all up in the air.
I seem to think a bison paddock is just that a paddock with nothing more really needed apart from the fencing!
Swanson02
Well-Known Member
How complete is the Bison enclosure?
They’ve only just started laying out the foundations for it similar to the Elephant complex. It’ll be completed much quicker than the elephant complex though, and will probably be open next year.
The cost to export Burma to the US would be astronomical, not to mention the necessary permits needed making the whole thing a logistical nightmare. The zoo will be familiar with inter-Tasman transfers which they undertake several times a year and the costs would be significantly less. Werribee tick all the boxes re. a large herd held within world class facilities. I imagine Auckland would be VERY keen to see this happen.
A one year delay on the Bison exhibit isn’t bad considering Auckland Zoo is still working on a South East Asian precinct that was supposed to be complete three years ago.
It sounds like Zoos Victoria have at least recognised the elephant transfer as a priority, which could pay off for Auckland and Perth zoos given their respective reductions to a single female elephant (in semi urgent need of a home).
- Status