Future of Zoos SA zoos (Speculation)

[Jambo]

I believe exporting so many females a few years ago was a home goal they have never recovered from a better plan needs to be formulated

Definitely. Melbourne could’ve definitely used Bambuti (1994), who has no breeding relatives within the region on both her mother and fathers side. Even Safiri and Anguka could’ve been used by Mogo, who are also in need of females right now.

Back then, the region was doing well with only Melbourne and Taronga as holders, and both maintaining decent sized troops of nine.

 

[Zorro]

Definitely. Melbourne could’ve definitely used Bambuti (1994), who has no breeding relatives within the region on both her mother and fathers side. Even Safiri and Anguka could’ve been used by Mogo, who are also in need of females right now.

Back then, the region was doing well with only Melbourne and Taronga as holders, and both maintaining decent sized troops of nine.

Surely the group/team managing the Gorillas in the region could project somewhat into the future while managing so few?

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe exporting so many females a few years ago was a home goal they have never recovered from a better plan needs to be formulated

The difference between then and now is there was a demand for these females (and males) overseas. This demand had now dried up due to the success in breeding this species and we can now no longer export our Australasian bred gorillas with ease.

This has a flow on effect on breeding e.g. Taronga bred two offspring from each female, but now all females are on contraception instead of breed from Mbeli a third time.

 

[Zorro]

The difference between then and now is there was a demand for these females (and males) overseas. This demand had now dried up due to the success in breeding this species and we can now no longer export our Australasian bred gorillas with ease.

This has a flow on effect on breeding e.g. Taronga bred two offspring from each female, but now all females are on contraception instead of breed from Mbeli a third time.

Ah good to see them following the master plan!

 

[Zoofan15]

Ah good to see them following the master plan!

I’m hoping the new Congo precinct will allow Taronga the opportunity to commence breeding again. The pause (three years and counting) means they’re coming close to the opportunity to switch silverbacks, which may be in their plans.

Kibale could be retired, along with his three sons in 2024/2025; which would be close to the time it’d be safe to bring in a new silverback with regards to Frala’s daughter Fikiri (2019). This would then kick start the breeding troop with two breeding females - Mbeli (2003) and Fikiri (2019); and two non breeding females - Frala (1981) and Johari (2000). The females would have plenty of support, which natural increases through breeding would be minimal.

 

[Zoofan15]

Surely the group/team managing the Gorillas in the region could project somewhat into the future while managing so few?

The solution is a greater number of unrelated founders. Their offspring will be easier to place and more regular reproduction will lead to healthier troops.

The issue we’re facing is Europe is our main source of females and with a large surplus, they’re keen to retain their most genetically valuable females themselves for breeding. Australasia has to take what it can get and subsequently can only breed what we know we can accomodate.

Even with this in mind, I’d agree with others the region has been over cautious in it’d breeding though.

 

[Zorro]

The solution is a greater number of unrelated founders. Their offspring will be easier to place and more regular reproduction will lead to healthier troops.

The issue we’re facing is Europe is our main source of females and with a large surplus, they’re keen to retain their most genetically valuable females themselves for breeding. Australasia has to take what it can get and subsequently can only breed what we know we can accomodate.

Even with this in mind, I’d agree with others the region has been over cautious in it’d breeding though.

Some years ago when Seaworld in Queensland were proposing a African jungle exhibit they were I believe from news paper reports at the time looking at sourcing gorillas from the USA, from what I can recall were in the process of obtaining a group of them. Even though that idea did not eventuate a female hippo was obtained from Mareeba but sent to Dubbo thus just about saving the species within the region!

 

[Zoofan15]

Some years ago when Seaworld in Queensland were proposing a African jungle exhibit they were I believe from news paper reports at the time looking at sourcing gorillas from the USA, from what I can recall were in the process of obtaining a group of them. Even though that idea did not eventuate a female hippo was obtained but sent to Dubbo thus just about saving the species within the region!

The USA are more difficult to work with than Europe with regards to imports, so consequently the North American gorilla population is poorly represented in Australasia compared to the European population. Plus we function as an extension of the EEP.

Therefore, it’s a real shame that import didn’t proceed as the gorillas acquired would be highly valuable and could be supplying other troops in the region with females as we speak!

 

[Zorro]

The USA are more difficult to work with than Europe with regards to imports, so consequently the North American gorilla population is poorly represented in Australasia compared to the European population. Plus we function as an extension of the EEP.

Therefore, it’s a real shame that import didn’t proceed as the gorillas acquired would be highly valuable and could be supplying other troops in the region with females as we speak!

Perhaps, If Platypus can be sent to the USA it may not be so hard to send Taronga what it needs

 

[Zoofan15]

Perhaps, If Platypus can be sent to the USA it may not be so hard to send Taronga what it needs

That could be an option given the Okapi we planned to receive likely won’t be feasible. The advent of a new holder e.g. Adelaide is the best shot at introducing new blood on a long term scale e.g. via distribution of first generation offspring. An female imports by existing holders will just be breeding with well represented European silverbacks.

 

[Swanson02]

The USA are more difficult to work with than Europe with regards to imports, so consequently the North American gorilla population is poorly represented in Australasia compared to the European population. Plus we function as an extension of the EEP.

What makes the US in general, harder to deal with than Europe? I thought they would have been easier with no language barriers and similar zoo cultures. It would be very interesting to get a zoo official's perspective on what they believe, are the easiest and most difficult zoos/regions to deal with on matters of import/export.

 

[Zoofan15]

What makes the US in general, harder to deal with than Europe? I thought they would have been easier with no language barriers and similar zoo cultures. It would be very interesting to get a zoo official's perspective on what they believe, are the easiest and most difficult zoos/regions to deal with on matters of import/export.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service are vey strict when it comes to imports and exports. The level of detail they want to know on applications includes everything from details of the exhibits and local weather to the full CV’s of the husbandry and veterinary staff. The import applications for Auckland’s Sumatran tigers took just under two years to be approved, which is a standard timeframe.

Once I heard that, I realised why all our previous tiger imports have been from Europe (bar the Indonesian import of 2008).

Yes, that would be interesting! I imagine the experience varies greatly from zoo to zoo - with some being highly familiar with the process and providing extensive support; others being less familiar with the process.

 

[Zorro]

The US Fish and Wildlife Service are vey strict when it comes to imports and exports. The level of detail they want to know on applications includes everything from details of the exhibits and local weather to the full CV’s of the husbandry and veterinary staff. The import applications for Auckland’s Sumatran tigers took just under two years to be approved, which is a standard timeframe.

Once I heard that, I realised why all our previous tiger imports have been from Europe (bar the Indonesian import of 2008).

Yes, that would be interesting! I imagine the experience varies greatly from zoo to zoo - with some being highly familiar with the process and providing extensive support; others being less familiar with the process.

So I am assuming the US Fish and Wildlife Service did not have to much of a problem with the importation of Platypus into the US.

 

[Zoofan15]

So I am assuming the US Fish and Wildlife Service did not have to much of a problem with the importation of Platypus into the US.

They have no problem with any application that answers all questions in the detail they require. The San Diego Zoo would have happily worked to satisfy all requirements and have had the resources, expertise and experience to complete this application with ease. They conduct regular inter-regional imports and exports.

 

[Zoofan15]

Adelaide should move on without the giraffe as they have monarto not far away. Perhaps they could investigate the possibility of Okapi to replace them

I fully agree it’s pointless to keep giraffe at Adelaide when Monarto Zoo is a complimenting facility to Adelaide, not a competitor. Furthermore, Adelaide holding giraffe doesn’t assist Monarto in any way.

While I don’t doubt the visitors like giraffes, they’d surely enjoy other species just as much such as the Sri Lankan leopard or Western lowland gorilla - the latter being an example of how Monarto and Adelaide could support each other with one holding a breeding troop, the other a bachelor troop.

The difficulty in obtaining Okapi is partly due to North America and Europe not recognising the benefits of having an isolated pair in Australasia, but in the event multiple zoos were able to support a breeding programme, something sustainable could potentially be built up.

 

[Zorro]

I fully agree it’s pointless to keep giraffe at Adelaide when Monarto Zoo is a complimenting facility to Adelaide, not a competitor. Furthermore, Adelaide holding giraffe doesn’t assist Monarto in any way.

While I don’t doubt the visitors like giraffes, they’d surely enjoy other species just as much such as the Sri Lankan leopard or Western lowland gorilla - the latter being an example of how Monarto and Adelaide could support each other with one holding a breeding troop, the other a bachelor troop.

The difficulty in obtaining Okapi is partly due to North America and Europe not recognising the benefits of having an isolated pair in Australasia, but in the event multiple zoos were able to support a breeding programme, something sustainable could potentially be built up.

"IF" Taronga do get their Okapi then they won't be a isolated pair, also the sending Platypus to San Deigo zoo is a strong indicator its a real possibility.

 

[Zoofan15]

"IF" Taronga do get their Okapi then they won't be a isolated pair, also the sending Platypus to San Deigo zoo is a strong indicator its a real possibility.

I’m certainly hopeful the export of the Platypus will remain the reciprocal it was intended to be. When I emailed Taronga, they hadn’t ruled out the possibility of an Okapi import and would have the connections to make it happen.

Now the Giraffe and Okapi IRA for New Zealand is completed, Auckland Zoo may even consider it in the future depending what’s available to them. I wondered this when there was talk of building an African forest precinct.

 

[Kudu21]

"IF" Taronga do get their Okapi then they won't be a isolated pair, also the sending Platypus to San Deigo zoo is a strong indicator its a real possibility.

I’m certainly hopeful the export of the Platypus will remain the reciprocal it was intended to be. When I emailed Taronga, they hadn’t ruled out the possibility of an Okapi import and would have the connections to make it happen.

Now the Giraffe and Okapi IRA for New Zealand is completed, Auckland Zoo may even consider it in the future depending what’s available to them. I wondered this when there was talk of building an African forest precinct.

I’ve discussed this before, but I would certainly not get my hopes up for any okapi coming to your region from the United States — it’s just not realistic. On the slim chance any are able to be sourced, they will certainly be surplus males. The okapi SSP is teetering on the edge of disaster with less than two dozen reproductively viable females and no female calves produced in over two years. We do not have breeding okapi to spare. When you have so few animals, it’s better to concentrate your efforts than spread yourself too thin. The management at San Diego that coordinated the platypus import is also now long gone, so I would not hold my breath for any reciprocity there either.

 

[Zoofan15]

I’ve discussed this before, but I would certainly not get my hopes up for any okapi coming to your region from the United States — it’s just not realistic. On the slim chance any are able to be sourced, they will certainly be surplus males. The okapi SSP is teetering on the edge of disaster with less than two dozen reproductively viable females and no female calves produced in over two years. We do not have breeding okapi to spare. When you have so few animals, it’s better to concentrate your efforts than spread yourself too thin. The management at San Diego that coordinated the platypus import is also now long gone, so I would not hold my breath for any reciprocity there either.

There’s import options beyond North America, so it’s not beyond the realms that they may source two bull Okapi from North America and a cow from Europe. Europe have reasonable breeding success, so not sure why North America is struggling. In any case, the point I’m making is that a regional breeding programme could potentially thrive here with multiple holders. I acknowledge acquiring Okapi to create those holders is the stumbling block.

 

[Abbey]

I would hope so. They require a high humidity environment (Auckland Zoo’s tropical dome will be maintained at 28 degrees) and males of this species can grow up to five metres (another reason Auckland may only want to keep females), so the cost of housing them would be the only restriction. Though, this would be within the means of most of the main zoos in the region.

Along with Komodo dragons, they’d make a great addition to Adelaide’s predominantly mammals based Jewels of Asia precinct.

I agree that it would be great to see False gharial housed in Australia, including at Adelaide.

The site earmarked for a flamingo exhibit could potentially be repurposed (given the unlikelihood of Adelaide being able to reacquire flamingoes) for an indoor, heated exhibit, given its proximity to the Jewels of Asia precinct.