Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Zoofan15]

I've mentioned it before but I can see TWPZ expanding into the exhibit next to the elephants in this upcoming expansion. This paddock is currently inhabited on/off by zebra and Onager. Onagers are being phased out (unfortunately), and zebras are found in other locations all over the zoo, so can be moved. It's unfortunate as it would be taking away an exhibit but it's the only place I could see the elephants expanding, they are blocked to the north by the road, east by the savanna, and south by the zoofari lodge.

The image below is a little draw-up of where I see TWPZ placing the new yard (replacing the current zebra exhibit) and the new calf and cow barn with an indoor area. All the other current yards are outlined in red. I could also see them expanding the current display yard, across into the new yard (area highlighted green), creating one giant exhibit for their multigenerational herd. The remaining three yards could then be used like they are now, rotated between Gung, a small bachelor group, or another breeding bull (Pathi Harn), and resting/regeneration.

View attachment 556796

Long term, they’ll have to weigh up whether they want to retain Sabai. On the surface, he appears to have little value to the breeding programme; but long term could be the most suitable mentor to the next cohort of calves if he shares Luk Chai’s calm demeanour.

Under your design of the six exhibits, he could still be accommodated with the other groupings consisting of: 1) Gung, 2) Pathi Harn, 3) Cows/Calves, 4) Sabai, 5) Adolescents, 6) Resting/Rotation - bearing in mind the adolescents would overlap with Pathi Harn or Sabai at any given time.

The transfer of Pak Boon and Tang Mo would still vacate Taronga for a bull or two, so another way to do it would be to breed Pathi Harn with Anjalee once or twice; and Thong Dee and Pak Boon once (assuming the latter arrives in calf) and then transfer him to Taronga. This would theoretically exhaust Pathi Harn’s contributions to the gene pool (at least for the next decade or two) and see him transferred as his calves are approaching adolescence and more space is needed.

 

[Jambo]

An idea re. Pak Boon:

It doesn’t seem likely Pak Boon will be transferred out of Taronga anytime soon given Dubbo’s expansion is still two years away and Werribee are looking at a similar timeframe for their complex.

If she conceived this month, they’d be looking at a seven year age gap since her last calf and she’s now 30 years old. Getting her pregnant should be a priority.

While AI remains an option, I wonder if they’d consider loaning her to Sydney Zoo (a 45 minute journey by truck) to breed with their two bulls. They’re now eight years old and at the age where they could achieve a successful mating (as Gung did at their age with Pak Boon).

Taronga will be aware of Pak Boon’s ovulation cycle and a loan period of a week would be sufficient to cover all bases. It’d be significantly cheaper than undertaking AI, more likely to succeed and could see Pak Boon transfer to Dubbo with a calf unrelated to all members of their herd.

Such a method has been undertaken with success at zoos in the UK and in the US.

That sounds like a great idea although I think it may be best for one of the males to be sent to Taronga. Taronga could accomodate him for a few weeks, before he would be sent back.

Chester have done it before (receiving females for a month and sending them back). A month allows them to go through two cycles (just in case the first doesn’t work).

It’ll at least be great for the time being to ensure Pak Boon has a calf ASAP. She’s now five years since her last calf, and being 30 with no living descendants, it’ll be extremely beneficial to get her pregnant now, with a baby due for 2024. This would allow her to have at least an additional three offspring to guarantee her future representation.

 

[Zoofan15]

That sounds like a great idea although I think it may be best for one of the males to be sent to Taronga. Taronga could accomodate him for a few weeks, before he would be sent back.

Chester have done it before (receiving females for a month and sending them back). A month allows them to go through two cycles (just in case the first doesn’t work).

It’ll at least be great for the time being to ensure Pak Boon has a calf ASAP. She’s now five years since her last calf, and being 30 with no living descendants, it’ll be extremely beneficial to get her pregnant now, with a baby due for 2024. This would allow her to have at least an additional three offspring to guarantee her future representation.

Taronga could indeed manage the introduction, though Sydney have two bulls so I figured it would be better to give them both a shot in case one doesn’t perform. That said, they could always try sending one to Taronga; and then the other on the next cycle if they don’t get the desired results. If he’s anything like Luk Chai, they’ll be no need for a second visit.

An elephant’s reproductive cycle occurs every 13-18 weeks, where she’s able to conceive for around 3-5 days; so if the cycle was unsuccessful, they’d have to wait 3-4 months before trying again. I think it’d be worth trying this way rather than AI given the expense involved.

The added benefit of a Dublin x Pak Boon calf is it ensures the representation of these founders for decades to come. Werribee won’t need them until Mali has a granddaughter (Putra Mas can breed with her daughter) and that could easily be 2-3 decades away. Having a male calf from Pak Boon and one of the Dublin bulls serves as a contingency if they’re no longer alive by that time; while a female calf from that pairing would have a million uses (well, several).

 

[Zorro]

Taronga could indeed manage the introduction, though Sydney have two bulls so I figured it would be better to give them both a shot in case one doesn’t perform. That said, they could always try sending one to Taronga; and then the other on the next cycle if they don’t get the desired results. If he’s anything like Luk Chai, they’ll be no need for a second visit.

An elephant’s reproductive cycle occurs every 13-18 weeks, where she’s able to conceive for around 3-5 days; so if the cycle was unsuccessful, they’d have to wait 3-4 months before trying again. I think it’d be worth trying this way rather than AI given the expense involved.

The added benefit of a Dublin x Pak Boon calf is it ensures the representation of these founders for decades to come. Werribee won’t need them until Mali has a granddaughter (Putra Mas can breed with her daughter) and that could easily be 2-3 decades away. Having a male calf from Pak Boon and one of the Dublin bulls serves as a contingency if they’re no longer alive by that time; while a female calf from that pairing would have a million uses (well, several).

Perhaps the Sydney zoo could add on another yard for possible visits by cows in the future!

 

[Zoofan15]

Perhaps the Sydney zoo could add on another yard for possible visits by cows in the future!

They have two main yards at present - one was occupied by Saigon; the other by the two young bulls. The idea being as they mature, they’ll need their own space. With additional holding yards etc. they could manage introductions on a short term basis. Though having cows on site would hasten the need to seperate the adolescent bulls. It’s widely believed that bachelor herds are most successful at zoos that don’t hold cows on site.

 

[Jambo]

They have two main yards at present - one was occupied by Saigon; the other by the two young bulls. The idea being as they mature, they’ll need their own space. With additional holding yards etc. they could manage introductions on a short term basis. Though having cows on site would hasten the need to seperate the adolescent bulls. It’s widely believed that bachelor herds are most successful at zoos that don’t hold cows on site.

Sydney could definitely be a candidate for holding future bulls once the Dublin bulls move into the breeding program. They could have space for more than two males imo.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sydney could definitely be a candidate for holding future bulls once the Dublin bulls move into the breeding program. They could have space for more than two males imo.

The only downside is Sydney Zoo will have little motivation to assist the other zoos in taking their surplus bulls. More bulls means more food costs/outgoings with little to no return (three or four bulls won’t bring in more than visitors than if they retained their two).

Bull exchanges between the other zoos will be mutually beneficial in that Dubbo and Werribee can commence breeding etc.

Arguably, Sydney Zoo may be happy to transfer their bulls upon maturity in exchange for adolescent bulls to start over; but if their bulls can keep what tusks they’ve got, then there’s little more impressive than a fully tusked bull elephant.

 

[Swanson02]

An idea re. Pak Boon:
While AI remains an option, I wonder if they’d consider loaning her to Sydney Zoo (a 45 minute journey by truck) to breed with their two bulls. They’re now eight years old and at the age where they could achieve a successful mating (as Gung did at their age with Pak Boon).

Taronga will be aware of Pak Boon’s ovulation cycle and a loan period of a week would be sufficient to cover all bases. It’d be significantly cheaper than undertaking AI, more likely to succeed and could see Pak Boon transfer to Dubbo with a calf unrelated to all members of their herd.

Such a method has been undertaken with success at zoos in the UK and in the US.

Didn't the keepers at Auckland at the time, rather prefer the idea of sending Anjalee on a 'breeding holiday' to TWPZ with her returning to Auckland either pregnant or with a calf, than sending her away permanently? Unfortunately, covid ruined this though?

So at least the idea of short breeding-related transfer has been thought of in the region before.

Also with Anjalee's irregular cycles, what are the chances that she will actually fall pregnant at TWPZ? I assume relatively high as both zoos sounded pretty confident she would.

 

[Hyak_II]

It doesn’t matter if a cow cycles irregularly, a good breeding bull will still breed her all the same when she is cycling. It only makes things problematic for people, primarily in terms of predicting cycling dates, particularly when the goal is to AI a cow.

 

[Zoofan15]

Didn't the keepers at Auckland at the time, rather prefer the idea of sending Anjalee on a 'breeding holiday' to TWPZ with her returning to Auckland either pregnant or with a calf, than sending her away permanently? Unfortunately, covid ruined this though?

So at least the idea of short breeding-related transfer has been thought of in the region before.

Also with Anjalee's irregular cycles, what are the chances that she will actually fall pregnant at TWPZ? I assume relatively high as both zoos sounded pretty confident she would.

No, Auckland Zoo never considered loaning Anjalee to Taronga Western Plains Zoo. The logistics and paperwork involved would have made it prohibitive and even if she had conceived, she may have had a male calf which would take them back to square one. The aim was to grow a multigenerational herd through her matrilineal line (and Nandi’s had she arrived). It should be noted that the inability to import Nandi was a contributing factor to the phase out, given she would have been the zoo’s third elephant.

Biosecurity restrictions meant AI could no longer be undertaken with imported semen from Australia, which was a shame.

Short term breeding transfers would definitely be an option within Australia - within state e.g. Taronga to Sydney would be ideal if the zoos can work together.

Fortunately, I don’t anticipate her irregular cycles being an issue given the bull will be on site and can cover her on any given day at a moment’s notice.

 

[Zorro]

Aucklands downfall was it never really committed itself the way it should have its like they were tinkering around the edges with it all. The constant scaling back to the project was the under laying problem. The last straw was not bringing in the two new cows at the same time and only bringing in Anjalee then planning another later which gives time to any AR people the time to throw up road blocks and hamper any export.

 

[Zoofan15]

Aucklands downfall was it never really committed itself the way it should have its like they were tinkering around the edges with it all. The constant scaling back to the project was the under laying problem. The last straw was not bringing in the two new cows at the same time and only bringing in Anjalee then planning another later which gives time to any AR people the time to throw up road blocks and hamper any export.

It’s a real shame considering they originally planned to hold a herd of 10 elephants with the import of Gung and Tukta in 2006 as a starting point. The Auckland ratepayers had a cry about the funding the zoo would receive and like you say, the project was consistently downgraded.

Having Gung on site would have meant natural breeding would have been an option and ultimately made the breeding programme a success - especially if further cows had arrived.

 

[Jambo]

It’s a real shame considering they originally planned to hold a herd of 10 elephants with the import of Gung and Tukta in 2006 as a starting point. The Auckland ratepayers had a cry about the funding the zoo would receive and like you say, the project was consistently downgraded.

Having Gung on site would have meant natural breeding would have been an option and ultimately made the breeding programme a success - especially if further cows had arrived.

Tukta was around the same age as Gung, so it’s likely if Gung bred her like he did with Thong Dee early, Auckland could’ve had the first elephant calf in the region!

They would’ve had a decent sized group starting up with Gung, Tukta, Kashin and Burma. Down the line they could’ve imported a matriline (possibly from Taronga) to establish a herd.

I believe Auckland were the ones that rejected Tukta, and neither Taronga nor Melbourne had the space for another female, so couldn’t take her. At least Taronga named their first female calf after her which is interesting! They could’ve very well just liked the name or maybe she died soon after and they named the calf as a tribute.

 

[Zoofan15]

Tukta was around the same age as Gung, so it’s likely if Gung bred her like he did with Thong Dee early, Auckland could’ve had the first elephant calf in the region!

They would’ve had a decent sized group starting up with Gung, Tukta, Kashin and Burma. Down the line they could’ve imported a matriline (possibly from Taronga) to establish a herd.

I believe Auckland were the ones that rejected Tukta, and neither Taronga nor Melbourne had the space for another female, so couldn’t take her. At least Taronga named their first female calf after her which is interesting! They could’ve very well just liked the name or maybe she died soon after and they named the calf as a tribute.

Auckland Zoo had a lot of ambition in the early years. There were discussions in the early 1990’s about undertaking AI with Kashin, which were abandoned due to her arthritis. They began AI training with Burma in the early 2000’s, but this was abandoned due to her being uncomfortable with the procedure. She would have been 24 upon Gung’s arrival and just past the recommended age given he wouldn’t have been able to reach her for a further two years or so.

Tukta, like you say, would have represented their best chance at successful breeding. The other benefit is that Gung’s absence at Taronga means Heman may have entered the breeding programme - a moot point giving he died the year the import took place and there probably wouldn’t have been time to mobilise breeding (the zoo’s wanted a settle in period).

 

[Swanson02]

No, Auckland Zoo never considered loaning Anjalee to Taronga Western Plains Zoo. The logistics and paperwork involved would have made it prohibitive and even if she had conceived, she may have had a male calf which would take them back to square one. The aim was to grow a multigenerational herd through her matrilineal line (and Nandi’s had she arrived). It should be noted that the inability to import Nandi was a contributing factor to the phase out, given she would have been the zoo’s third elephant.
Biosecurity restrictions meant AI could no longer be undertaken with imported semen from Australia, which was a shame.

At 4:55 in this video, Andrew one of the Auckland keepers chats about the possibility of a "Breeding holiday", but from the sounds of it, it was probably just an idea not a possibility. I assumed the 'holiday' would of have been to TWPZ as it was the only location with space and a bull.

 

[Zoofan15]

At 4:55 in this video, Andrew one of the Auckland keepers chats about the possibility of a "Breeding holiday", but from the sounds of it, it was probably just an idea not a possibility. I assumed the 'holiday' would of have been to TWPZ as it was the only location with space and a bull.

I stand corrected. It was indeed considered, though discounted for the reasons I listed. Yes, I imagine that would have been TWPZ given Melbourne Zoo are so limited on space right now. TWPZ could have easily managed the introduction of Burma to one of their bulls, while keeping her seperate from their cows and calves etc.

It’s a shame it wasn’t feasible as this could have seen Auckland Zoo form a breeding herd centred around Anjalee and her offspring. If she had a female calf, they could have delayed breeding her a second time until her calf was nine and then loaned them together for a repeat breeding (assuming they didn’t have a bull on site by then).

 

[Jambo]

I stand corrected. It was indeed considered, though discounted for the reasons I listed. Yes, I imagine that would have been TWPZ given Melbourne Zoo are so limited on space right now. TWPZ could have easily managed the introduction of Burma to one of their bulls, while keeping her seperate from their cows and calves etc.

It’s a shame it wasn’t feasible as this could have seen Auckland Zoo form a breeding herd centred around Anjalee and her offspring. If she had a female calf, they could have delayed breeding her a second time until her calf was nine and then loaned them together for a repeat breeding (assuming they didn’t have a bull on site by then).

It was from September of last year, so Melbourne could’ve very well held Anjalee on a temporary month or so breeding holiday. Melbourne have the space for one cow now, but won’t once the calves are born later this year.

Sending Anjalee though would’ve come at an immense cost, and even if she was sent for a few weeks to come back pregnant, it wouldn’t be ideal finance wise. A more lengthier stay, eg. 6 months would be more beneficial to guarantee pregnancy make the most of their money.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sending Anjalee though would’ve come at an immense cost, and even if she was sent for a few weeks to come back pregnant, it wouldn’t be ideal finance wise. A more lengthier stay, eg. 6 months would be more beneficial to guarantee pregnancy make the most of their money.

Pregnancy could be confirmed at around 3-4 months gestation, but given pregnancy loss is high in the early stages, it would make sense to retain Anjalee until she was around the half way mark before returning her to Auckland Zoo.

This would see her stay there for at least 12 months assuming she conceived on the first cycle following her arrival.

 

[Jambo]

Pregnancy could be confirmed at around 3-4 months gestation, but given pregnancy loss is high in the early stages, it would make sense to retain Anjalee until she was around the half way mark before returning her to Auckland Zoo.

This would see her stay there for at least 12 months assuming she conceived on the first cycle following her arrival.

That would make the most sense safety wise, ensuring the pregnancy is successful.

Chester received cows from London in the early 90’s but only for a period of one cycle (a month). None of these resulted in a successful pregnancy. They learnt from this and later that decade they received two females from Twycross for a year, ensuring they both fall pregnant. A key part I think too is ensuring the cow feels comfortable, which could take months even.

 

[Zoofan15]

That would make the most sense safety wise, ensuring the pregnancy is successful.

Chester received cows from London in the early 90’s but only for a period of one cycle (a month). None of these resulted in a successful pregnancy. They learnt from this and later that decade they received two females from Twycross for a year, ensuring they both fall pregnant. A key part I think too is ensuring the cow feels comfortable, which could take months even.

On that topic, it throws up another reason why this was discounted in that it would leave Burma alone for that period of time (ironic considering her current situation); as well as placing Anjalee in a situation where her options would be to live alongside the matriarchal herd without direct contact or being integrated with them and then removed (disruptive). Two cows sent for breeding may be considered, but sending Burma purely for companionship, definitely not.