Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Great news! At 10 years, she will still be a very young mother, but I believe that Punda will help her with the calf. Hopefully Punda and Bongi will soon be pregnant as well. Madiba is still too young.
African Elephants In Europe 2022
- Thread starter Hyak_II
- Start date
Well no surprise Yambo has wasted no time, it turns out he has also mated with Bongi aswell with Pina Nessie, and hopefully her mother Punda and sister Bongi pregnant the future is looking bright for Beekse Bergan
it won’t be long before Madiba is next at this rate.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
Are there any updates on African Elephants in England? I know that West Midlands Safari Park would like further Elephants. Furthermore Sutton is getting to the age when he should leave his Mum (Five) at WMSP. Another Zoo that was considering getting further Cowes is Colchester. Lastly I heard that Noah’s Ark in Bristol was hoping for further Elephants. All has gone quiet on thease plans. I was hoping someone can help me?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
There’s likely not going to be much on that front for a while yet. There’s just not enough animals (especially cows) to go around. Ideally howlets would be willing to let a few of their cows go to the other British facilities, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. The only place in continental Europe that really has cows to spare right now would be Cabarceno in Spain, and *maybe* Wuppertal and Beekse Bergen (and even then, given the current breeding success both facilities are having, it would be a very poor move to split the matrilineal groups right now and potentially waste cows on dud bulls at unmotivated facilities). If West Midlands and Colechester were truly motivated to try and increase their herds, they would be doing bull swaps and aggressively artificially inseminating their cows. As far as I’m aware however, it’s basically been at a standstill on either of those fronts for the past several years.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
I might ask when I next visit Colchester if I spot an elephant keeper, I am normally tempted to, but a bit too shy and actual elephant keepers rather than "hosts" aren't always visible. Though what we do know about Colchester's plans (what I found out doing my Aardvark Keeper Shadowing), is that earlier in the year they were considering and looking into doing A.I with one of the cows (unconfirmed individual), and they plan to gradually switch Tanya and Opal from Free to Protected contact in the next few years (I partly see this as a negative, mainly as I don't like seeing change in Colchester Zoo for a few personal reasons). Maybe when I next visit (I don't know when this will be) I will go out of my way to find and question a keeper (politely), although I have considered purchasing and elephant feeding (£20.00) to get a better opportunity to ask questions directly to a knowledgeable elephant keeper. Talking about Noah's Ark, it is listed as Impy's birthday today on the Elephant Database, and I noticed that possibly him, and fellow 11 year old Howletts bull Mchumba could be of an age to leave and join Janu in Noah's Ark, partly as they doesn't seem very genetically valuable. Then I remembered the plans for the Howletts elephants so maybe that will not be possible. At West Midlands, I believe Sutton is already separated from Five, and considering his age he could be an option to join Noah's Ark's bachelor herd as well. It looks like the 2 pathways for these 3 collections (mainly speaking about what would be best for these 3 locations, disregarding other European herds about other collections that could be transferred between) to follow could be (1 being favourable and more likely in my opinion):
1- Sutton leaves WMSP, most likely to Noah's Ark, Noah's gain bulls and Colchester and WMSP search for cows in Europe to both form breeding herds with the base of their herd being the current individuals residing at each location (this could involve for Colchester, completing speculated transfers with Valencia, gaining cows and possibly seeing Jambo return to England in some capacity, to Colchester to either switch with or join Tembo, or to Noah's Ark).
2- Five leaving WMSP and going to Colchester, this would leave Colchester less dependent on getting other cows from Europe and allow WMSP to build their herd around Sutton with less demand for cows (this would maybe make Jambo less likely to return to Colchester or England as it might not be as convenient if the Valencia cows aren't moving, though he might be more required at Noah's Ark or Colchester in this situation. As I said I would prefer the 1st option as it seems more likely as well as for other personal preferences of mine. However, the 2nd option might be more likely to work out. As a conclusion, I hope what I said has been helpful and I will try and do my own personal evaluation and investigation of the elephants at Colchester Zoo. I think I also need to try and appreciate the elephants we have now more, because you never know if maybe Tembo or the others could move and leave the collection.
Edit: It is fascinating how much changed for WMSP with the death of Latabe, because with 2 cows it would have been a lot easier to establish a herd than with only 1, for many reasons, technically and ethically.
So much would be different if Sutton was a female, or if any one of Colchester's 7 pregnancies was a surviving female, particularly Opal's calf, sired by A.I by an American bull not related to Tembo.
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Population wise neutral, but overall pleasant news, bull Afrique and cow Wankie have been transferred to Planete Sauvage in France from Monde Sauvage in Belgium. They are joining older cow Bamba.
While none of these animals are relevant to the breeding population, this is nice for Bamba as she now has companionship again after being alone for the past few years after the death of her companion Ben, and it is a nice move for the other two as it expands their social grouping as well. Overall a pleasant move, and I’m happy for all the animals involved.
While none of these animals are relevant to the breeding population, this is nice for Bamba as she now has companionship again after being alone for the past few years after the death of her companion Ben, and it is a nice move for the other two as it expands their social grouping as well. Overall a pleasant move, and I’m happy for all the animals involved.
Fantastic news. The fact they're going somewhere with more space and a milder climate is great. Hopefully the cows will be compatible. In a way it would be nice to see Afrique, who has never bred, move to Beauval but bulls who don't mate successfully by 30 tend not to start after that age. I would guess Monde Sauvage are going out of elephants unless there are plans for a new facility.
One correction - Bamba has only recently been living alone since the ex-Dudley cow Flora passed away. The only African elephant in Europe I know of named Ben is a bull living alone in Thoiry.
One correction - Bamba has only recently been living alone since the ex-Dudley cow Flora passed away. The only African elephant in Europe I know of named Ben is a bull living alone in Thoiry.
Sad news from Knuthenborg Safaripark, 44 year old cow N’yoka has been euthanized after a sudden decline in health. She was only transferred there in 2021, after spending the rest of her life prior at Boras Djurpark. This is a sad loss, and she was a beautiful cow. RIP old girl 
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Very sad news. She was very impressice elephant.Sad news from Knuthenborg Safaripark, 44 year old cow N’yoka has been euthanized after a sudden decline in health. She was only transferred there in 2021, after spending the rest of her life prior at Boras Djurpark. This is a sad loss, and she was a beautiful cow. RIP old girl
Lately a lot of elephants are dying in the zoo. Tricia, Khine War War and calves due to EEHV.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have an idea how this will effect the whole Bioparc Valencia, Colchester Zoo, West Midlands Safari Park Elephant situation? Will this speed up or slow down the Elephants moving around, or will Jambo stay to be the main bull at Valencia with them moving the individuals he doesn't get along with, or will a bigger and better breeding bull come in leading him to go elsewhere with a few cows, maybe a swap between him and Tembo seeing Jambo go back to Colchester along with a few younger breeding females. Does anyone have an idea or hunch about this situation, if it will be speed up or slow down, and what this might involve?
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I wouldn't be surprised if Jambo would go to a bachelor group. A few young bulls could move into a breeding situation like the big 17 years old Janu or Bou Bou. I don't think Colchester's situation is a priority for the EEP, as it looks that no more elephant can reproduce over there. The problem is that there aren't enough breeding cows that could move, so it's complicated to guess any move. But in my opinion, in the UK, Noah's Ark should be the first facility to receive a breeding group, as their facility is just incredible and after that, West Midlands could receive other elephants, except if they send Five somewhere else, so they could welcome a bachelor group. Colchester could maybe house some bulls, except if they upgrade their facilities, but I think breeding is over.
Considering there was never anything going on to begin with, beyond an absolutely ridiculous amount of forum clogging, common sense lacking, straw grasping speculation and self inserted preferences that was occurring from a select few members on the forum here, I don’t think this passing is going to change anything too terribly much.
*As far as I’m aware*, the most likely case of action that was going to occur was Tuskers transfer from Basel to what is assumed to be the Biopark (considering there are only two facilities with breeding age cows in Spain, and Cabarceno is in no need of a new bull right now), this would still be on the books, and if anything will now be sped up with the tragic passing of Kibo immediately opening up space to bring in Tusker. There was never anything publicly mentioned about if there any plans to transfer out Kibo, Jambo, or any of the cows. I’d say Kibo would’ve been the most likely to go elsewhere, however that is a mute point now.
Truthfully, I have my personal doubts that any of the Biopark animals are going anywhere anytime soon. I have absolutely no further knowledge on the situation, however my personal guess is that Tusker will be sent to Spain at some point within this year, and after that, everything else will remain as is, until further actions (or inaction) dictate a change, which is likely a few years away, at minimum. I know there’s a big push here on the form for something to be done with Jambo, and while my preference would be for him to go elsewhere as well, ultimately he does still have his father who is trained for semen collection and presumably still fertile, and half brother Abu (who is also from a wild caught female with no other offspring), who on top of being trained for semen collection, is also a very willing and competent natural breeder. Although Jambo is technically the most genetically valuable of the Tembo line bulls (including Tembo himself), he’s also a wild card, considering his fertility and natural breeding abilities are, at least for the moment, up in the air.
*As far as I’m aware*, the most likely case of action that was going to occur was Tuskers transfer from Basel to what is assumed to be the Biopark (considering there are only two facilities with breeding age cows in Spain, and Cabarceno is in no need of a new bull right now), this would still be on the books, and if anything will now be sped up with the tragic passing of Kibo immediately opening up space to bring in Tusker. There was never anything publicly mentioned about if there any plans to transfer out Kibo, Jambo, or any of the cows. I’d say Kibo would’ve been the most likely to go elsewhere, however that is a mute point now.
Truthfully, I have my personal doubts that any of the Biopark animals are going anywhere anytime soon. I have absolutely no further knowledge on the situation, however my personal guess is that Tusker will be sent to Spain at some point within this year, and after that, everything else will remain as is, until further actions (or inaction) dictate a change, which is likely a few years away, at minimum. I know there’s a big push here on the form for something to be done with Jambo, and while my preference would be for him to go elsewhere as well, ultimately he does still have his father who is trained for semen collection and presumably still fertile, and half brother Abu (who is also from a wild caught female with no other offspring), who on top of being trained for semen collection, is also a very willing and competent natural breeder. Although Jambo is technically the most genetically valuable of the Tembo line bulls (including Tembo himself), he’s also a wild card, considering his fertility and natural breeding abilities are, at least for the moment, up in the air.
How sad for Boras. Both Kibo and N’Yoka spent most of their adult lives there. With their female calf last year dying after being driven out by the herd (prompting N’Yoka’s transfer to Knuthenborg), and M’Changa being killed by another bull at Noah’s Ark, news of the loss of two former residents must be a blow. Nonetheless, they are one of the most successful herds in Europe and Kibo played a big part in that.
It’s particularly sad that N’Yoka didn’t survive long at Knuthenborg given this is appears such an outstanding facility. I suppose keeping her separated from very young calves at Boras was evaluated but ultimately felt to be a worse option than retirement, but I did wonder how well she would integrate given she seemed compatible with the other cows at Boras.
Kibo was a very special animal, being the first captive-bred bull in Europe to go on to breed successfully as an adult (or the second after Yossi at Ramat Gan if you include Israel's involvement with the European population). The sole surviving descendant from the now-defunct Hannover group, Kibo was the founder bull for the Boras herd and leaves six living descendants of his own – three at Boras, with a split matriline at Sosto (I’ve read an article in German suggesting his eldest daughter Kwanza was moved there due to being difficult to manage under free contact), and a grandson at the new bachelor group in Gyor.
Given he sired his last calf in 2011, there was every reason to expect Kibo would continue to breed at Valencia, so the logical conclusion here is that the issue might lie with the cows there. Indeed, I’ve seen footage of mating attempts where the cows involved are very much not receptive to his advances. Of course there may be much that has gone on that we are not aware of, but you would expect a live birth by now if there had been successful matings.
I have also been confused about the frequent discussion on these threads about Jambo or various Valencia cows leaving. I don’t know of any publicly-available information to suggest this is the case. Like Hyak_II, I would infer from an article about Tusker last year that he is destined for Valencia given it stated he would move to Spain following his stay at Basel, but there is really no indication of whether this will trigger breeding in Valencia's group. However, if Tusker isn’t able to mate successfully there, I don’t think there is any bull currently in Europe more likely to achieve this than him.
It’s particularly sad that N’Yoka didn’t survive long at Knuthenborg given this is appears such an outstanding facility. I suppose keeping her separated from very young calves at Boras was evaluated but ultimately felt to be a worse option than retirement, but I did wonder how well she would integrate given she seemed compatible with the other cows at Boras.
Kibo was a very special animal, being the first captive-bred bull in Europe to go on to breed successfully as an adult (or the second after Yossi at Ramat Gan if you include Israel's involvement with the European population). The sole surviving descendant from the now-defunct Hannover group, Kibo was the founder bull for the Boras herd and leaves six living descendants of his own – three at Boras, with a split matriline at Sosto (I’ve read an article in German suggesting his eldest daughter Kwanza was moved there due to being difficult to manage under free contact), and a grandson at the new bachelor group in Gyor.
Given he sired his last calf in 2011, there was every reason to expect Kibo would continue to breed at Valencia, so the logical conclusion here is that the issue might lie with the cows there. Indeed, I’ve seen footage of mating attempts where the cows involved are very much not receptive to his advances. Of course there may be much that has gone on that we are not aware of, but you would expect a live birth by now if there had been successful matings.
I have also been confused about the frequent discussion on these threads about Jambo or various Valencia cows leaving. I don’t know of any publicly-available information to suggest this is the case. Like Hyak_II, I would infer from an article about Tusker last year that he is destined for Valencia given it stated he would move to Spain following his stay at Basel, but there is really no indication of whether this will trigger breeding in Valencia's group. However, if Tusker isn’t able to mate successfully there, I don’t think there is any bull currently in Europe more likely to achieve this than him.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, if Tusker doesn't change the situation in Valencia, the breeding is probably over. This bull is incredible.
Kibo's death is very sad, if I am not mistaken, he was the oldest African bull in Europe. He was a formidable animal and will be sorely missed. RIP Kibo
Yazziel
Well-Known Member
On there new series “Cronicas del Zoo” it was said that Kibo was not mating with the females. And in a later episode the female Miri was artificially inseminated. I’m trying to find the episodes online to say what’s up with that and who would be the sire if Miri is pregnant from that procedureThe way I see it, if Tusker doesn't change the situation in Valencia, the breeding is probably over. This bull is incredible.
Kibo's death is very sad, if I am not mistaken, he was the oldest African bull in Europe. He was a formidable animal and will be sorely missed. RIP Kibo
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
The most likely sire if Miri is indeed pregnant would be either Abu, Jack, or Tusker
Yazziel
Well-Known Member
I found it. The sire would be a wild born male, the sample was collected 11 years ago while the animal was sedated.
Crónicas del Zoo, Conocemos a Ekan, el prime... | CanalSur Más
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Then the sire would be the bull Steve who has a couple of calves within the population