North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

[Mr.Ivory]

Out of curiosity which other facilities had you heard of potentially receiving ALS elephants? Tulsa certainly seems likely, same with Smithsonian, LA, Miami, and Denver.

Smithsonian is importing Throng Nhi and her daughter Nhi Linh from Rotterdam zoo I believe they would be content with the mother-daughter pair and Maharani as base for a successful breeding herd. Tulsa is the most likely candidate for receiving ALS cows the best option would receiving Lilly's matriline. LA could receive Emily and her offspring. And ALS retaining Natasha's matriline.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

It appears Omma is indeed pregnant this picture from the zoo's Facebook page on April 18th show that her sides to be quite wide

 

[Jambo]

My guess for the 10 elephant facilities would be:

- Smithsonian
- Denver
- Miami
- African Lion Safari
- Houstan
- Cincinnati
- Tulsa
- Fort Worth
- Saint Louis
- Oregon

The other two that are also likely are White Oak and Los Angeles.

Miami for certain plan to hold a breeding group upon Nellie and Dalip's deaths.

 

[Jambo]

It appears Omma is indeed pregnant this picture from the zoo's Facebook page on April 18th show that her sides to be quite wide

She does look quite pregnant, which is exciting.

By the looks of it she'll hopefully give birth sometime next year!

 

[PSO]

Miami will be done with elephants in the next 5 years. It's better to hold out hope the remaining ones (including Ongard) don't go to a sanctuary (especially the new sanctuary)

 

[E Maximus]

Miami will be done with elephants in the next 5 years. It's better to hold out hope the remaining ones (including Ongard) don't go to a sanctuary (especially the new sanctuary)

Miami doesn't own Ongard, so if this is true he will be long gone before they are phased out. Not to mention we should see the transfer of Spikes ownership if they indeed will be phasing out.

 

[Jambo]

Miami will be done with elephants in the next 5 years. It's better to hold out hope the remaining ones (including Ongard) don't go to a sanctuary (especially the new sanctuary)

Are your sure? Ongard was sent to Miami to breed in the future. He's owned by San Diego, but San Diego plans to move out of displaying Asian Elephants, hence the loaning of him to Miami who do plan to display Asian Elephants in the future.

 

[ZooElephantMan]

Miami will be done with elephants in the next 5 years. It's better to hold out hope the remaining ones (including Ongard) don't go to a sanctuary (especially the new sanctuary)

What makes the new sanctuary worse than the other sanctuaries?

 

[PSO]

The new sanctuary is Buckley 2.0, could argue worse or not considering the history of TES during Carol's years and after she got kicked out. At least she chose a better climate than the mountains/winters of TN.
Regarding Ongard, I do hope he goes to a prime breeding facility but it won't be Miami and mentioned before SD. If I was a betting man (which I am) he will go to National around the time the Rotterdam girls come in....that's if Miami doesn't prematurely decide to send their elephants to a sanctuary. Again when it comes to elephant politics/decisions anything goes. Have seen it personally

 

[Jambo]

Regarding Ongard, I do hope he goes to a prime breeding facility but it won't be Miami and mentioned before SD. If I was a betting man (which I am) he will go to National around the time the Rotterdam girls come in....that's if Miami doesn't prematurely decide to send their elephants to a sanctuary.

Again, are you sure this is the case? Melbourne (Ongard's birthplace) told me firsthand that San Diego had made the choice to send Ongard to Miami where one day he could become a breeding bull there.

The National Zoo plan to use Spike as their breeding bull. He's unrepresented and is as genetically valuable as Ongard is to the region. Alongside this, the National Zoo do not have space to hold two bulls.

 

[John Marchwick]

My guess for the 10 elephant facilities would be:

- Smithsonian
- Denver
- Miami
- African Lion Safari
- Houstan
- Cincinnati
- Tulsa
- Fort Worth
- Saint Louis
- Oregon

The other two that are also likely are White Oak and Los Angeles.

Miami for certain plan to hold a breeding group upon Nellie and Dalip's deaths.

Oklahoma City Zoo is absolutely not going to get rid of their elephants anytime soon. They plan on having a multi generational herd. Zoo Miami I don’t think will though given I think they have 2 elderly females and then Ongard. Rosamond Gifford Zoo is another zoo I think that’ll still keep Asian Elephants in the future and maybe Columbus…?

 

[John Marchwick]

It appears Omma is indeed pregnant this picture from the zoo's Facebook page on April 18th show that her sides to be quite wide

Oh wow. I wonder if the Omaha Zoo then hasn’t felt comfortable announcing her pregnancy if she’s experiencing something like Kiki did for example. However I’m kinda confused as the zoo had said she was still breeding with Callee at the time they announced her mother Jayeis pregnancy.

 

[John Marchwick]

I didn't realize Cincy already did. They hadn't at the time of the discussion. Glad to hear. I also know Columbus is planning an expansion to there elephant exhibit after N.A. is completed

where did you hear this?

 

[IndianRhino]

It appears Omma is indeed pregnant this picture from the zoo's Facebook page on April 18th show that her sides to be quite wide

Omma could just be a wider cow for all we know, it’s hard to know for sure unless we see mammary development. I hope she is pregnant but we can’t tell for sure from this picture.

Frankly why not just sent Raja, Saint Louis Zoos current bull to ZooTampa while Ongard breeds with the girls at Saint Louis Zoo.

I think you mean Miami, Tampa has African elephants.

Oklahoma City Zoo is absolutely not going to get rid of their elephants anytime soon. They plan on having a multi generational herd.

That is correct, the future is bright for OKC with 3 young females (as long as none of them succumb to the virus).

Rosamond Gifford Zoo is another zoo I think that’ll still keep Asian Elephants in the future and maybe Columbus…?

If Mali has a female calf this fall (that doesn’t succumb to the virus), that would be perfect for the zoo to grow out their matriarchal herd. Columbus is very likely to continue on with elephants as well. Hopefully Sundara and/or Rudy conceived before Beco passed, a female calf would be very beneficial for the herd.

Also @John Marchwick, it’d be nice if you responded to all those posts in one post (like I’ve done) instead of making a new post for each post you’re replying to. It keeps the thread more clean and less clogged up

 

[PSO]

I don't want to reveal my source (how I find this info out), basically there will be a reconfiguration of the N.A. area which will free up an additional 2 to 3 acres minimum of pure animal space.
I don't know where Ongard is going but bloodlines are getting thin in this country (Africans included) but it makes the most sense if he's given the chance to breed with a completely new line as well as current ones

 

[John Marchwick]

Omma could just be a wider cow for all we know, it’s hard to know for sure unless we see mammary development. I hope she is pregnant but we can’t tell for sure from this picture.


I think you mean Miami, Tampa has African elephants.


That is correct, the future is bright for OKC with 3 young females (as long as none of them succumb to the virus).


If Mali has a female calf this fall (that doesn’t succumb to the virus), that would be perfect for the zoo to grow out their matriarchal herd. Columbus is very likely to continue on with elephants as well. Hopefully Sundara and/or Rudy conceived before Beco passed, a female calf would be very beneficial for the herd.

Also @John Marchwick, it’d be nice if you responded to all those posts in one post (like I’ve done) instead of making a new post for each post you’re replying to. It keeps the thread more clean and less clogged up

My apologies. Frankly I never learned how to reply to multiple messages in 1 thread on zoochat so I do apologize for that. I also saw a couple of the messages I replied to some people were already answered which is again my mistake. Regarding Omma I think the point you made is the more likely option because I think if she was currently, she’d be in the very early stages. She was just mating with Callee the bull a couple weeks ago according to the Omaha Zoo. Again, I’m not saying Omma won’t get pregnant (which is really likely at this point) but I don’t think she is at the moment.

Archara and Kairavi have both caught and successfully defeated EEHV, and hopefully Ramas will too. Sundara and Rudy actually both mated with Beco according to @Sundara before he passed and Sundara I’ve heard is showing more and more signs she is pregnant from what I understand. However @IndianRhino I would like to know your personal opinion on Sundara and if you think she is pregnant or not. And you’re spot on about Rosamond Gifford Zoo too. And I did mean to say Busch Gardens and not ZooTampa which I mistakenly wrote so I apologize for that.

@IndianRhino I also while I have your attention if you saw what I posted about the Fresno Chaffee Zoo in this thread. I had a family member visit the zoo recently and he talked to a keeper at the zoo who said the zoo at this time was NOT breeding their elephants. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[IndianRhino]

Don’t know for sure re. Sundara as haven’t seen any pictures of her that show much mammary development. Shes always been a wide cow so I couldn’t say for sure that she’s pregnant just based on that.

Not sure what to say about Fresno’s elephants - that would suck if it’s the truth. Their trio is very genetically valuable and I’ve been hoping that the cows are pregnant for a while now. But then again, zoos often lie and cover up these things in the earlier stages so there’s a perfectly good chance your family member was just lied to and one or both of the cows are in the earlier stages of pregnancy.

 

[tigris115]

My Busch question wasn't answered.

I would like to know what they're gonna do with that elephant space if they're phasing out Asians.

 

[StoppableSan]

My Busch question wasn't answered.

I would like to know what they're gonna do with that elephant space if they're phasing out Asians.

Chances are they'll move the semi-off-exhibit black rhinos into that space.

 

[StoppableSan]

Miami will be done with elephants in the next 5 years. It's better to hold out hope the remaining ones (including Ongard) don't go to a sanctuary (especially the new sanctuary)

Elephants as a whole or one or the other? Seems kinda dodgy and arbitrary, to be honest.