That makes sense given this photo refers to there being another female (described an an aunt, not a sister) in this photo of Flier and her baby Jingga in 2008: Baby langur '08 - ZooChat This must have been Jambi, the smuggled female.
Australasian Colobine Population
- Thread starter WhistlingKite24
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That makes sense given this photo refers to there being another female (described an an aunt, not a sister) in this photo of Flier and her baby Jingga in 2008: Baby langur '08 - ZooChat This must have been Jambi, the smuggled female.
Flier had four offspring with Goblin.
1.0 Jingga (2006)
1.0 Nanti (2008)
0.1 Nakal (2011)
0.1 Tevy (2012)
Jambi was the female that was smuggled into the country illegally in the 80's. She died in 2012.
There was also a male imported from Wuppertal in 2001. He presumably died prior to 2004, as Goblin most likely replaced him.
Goblin died most likely soon after Tevy's birth as there were no further offspring. Flier died a few years ago although I can't remember an exact date, around 2017?
I’d say it’s probable Flier had an infant with this male then @Abbey. It likely died as an infant/juvenile. She then went on to have the four offspring with Goblin from 2006 onwards.
I'd assume that likely too. Both Flier and the Wuppertal male were imported in 2001 as a designated breeding pair so over the course of a few years, we can assume it's likely she probably had an infant during this time that died early on.
Jingga was born in 2006, so he likely was the first offspring of Goblin, rather than them having one earlier, which considering their gestation and Goblin arriving in 2004, would mean she would've had to have conceived quite early after Goblin arrived which is unlikely.
Thanks to both of you. I didn't know about the original male, so great to learn more about the history of this species in the region. It's a shame that he didn't live long, but obviously Goblin x Flier were a success pair following his death while they were both alive.
Adelaide did experience some success with Goblin and Flier. It's a shame they haven't been able to fulfill an import for a male or female, but this is likely due to the region now focusing on Francois Languars.
You're welcome. It was interesting to learn more about the history of this species! It's a shame that a greater number of founders never came this way and indeed I think we'll see this species phased out long term.
5.0 Bobo, Nangua, Jing, Didi and Minh the Francois' Langurs have been exported to Singapore Zoo. As @Zooish reported in the Singapore thread they will most likely remain off show and go on display at Rainforest Wild Asia when it opens in 2024. This leaves Taronga with their adult females and two male offspring Ngai (2019) and Manchu (2021) - confirmed via email.
The export of some male langurs was inevitable given how male heavy Taronga’s troop had become; though it’s a shame a new holder from within the region didn’t arise from this instead, considering we only had 13 Francois langurs across two facilities prior to this export.
The two remaining juvenile males are each related to two of the four females in the troop, so presumably they’ll be transferred out as a pair in a couple of years and a new male brought in.
I do find it quite perplexing why there is no apparent interest with any other zoos (bar 2 spare males) within the region to house this delightful endangered species
I do find it quite perplexing why there is no apparent interest with any other zoos (bar 2 spare males) within the region to house this delightful endangered species
Considering the dusky langur population is even more dire straights with 2.2 siblings held at Adelaide, I had at least hoped the Francois langur population would have a future in the region. Fingers crossed Taronga will continue with them long term - even if there’s to be no other holders in the foreseeable future.
It would be nice to see Auckland Zoo acquire this endangered species. They have space to work with considering the otter and lemur exhibits are set for redevelopment in the near future; and there’s also the off display red panda exhibit (old bear pit) to work with adjacent to the orangutans.
My preference would have been to see the off display red panda exhibit used to house Francois langur - a link to the primates held in the South East Asia trail; and the red panda facilities reduced to a single exhibit (behind the proposed lemur walkthrough) - considering the Nepalese subspecies is only classed as vulnerable.
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Considering all other langur species in our region were to be phased out including the Javans at Melbourne for the chosen Francois species, now it appears perhaps another Taronga exclusive species
Considering all other langur species in our region were to be phased out including the Javans at Melbourne for the chosen Francois species, now it appears perhaps another Taronga exclusive species
The Javan langur were a great loss considering they’re from South East Asia (a precinct most zoos seem to have); but the Francois langur holds value considering its geographic range includes China, Laos and Vietnam. It could therefore be exhibited in support of both South East Asian species and Chinese species (namely the Giant panda at Adelaide).
I agree but considering the time they have been at Taronga now if that was going to happen they would of likely been there by now.
Like many of you, I am surprised that Francois Langurs haven't taken off in the region, but also glad that the program has experienced a better fate than the other in-vogue Taronga species in the region of the same era, Dholes, which had come and gone within a decade of the importation of the first pair.
I agree with you that it would be great if extra holders like Auckland, Adelaide etc could come on board, but there seems to not be the interest or capacity, considering the exports of animals from Taronga. That said, the export of these males will avoid the need for contraception within the group, either to prevent excess births or inbreeding.
I agree with you that it would be great if extra holders like Auckland, Adelaide etc could come on board, but there seems to not be the interest or capacity, considering the exports of animals from Taronga. That said, the export of these males will avoid the need for contraception within the group, either to prevent excess births or inbreeding.
@Abbey Yeah agree that would have thought by now there would be many more zoos in the region wanting to keep Francois Langurs. Taronga has done well with them, would have thought more imports would have occured over the last fifteen years (with Mogo then later Canberra holding a few 'surplus' Taronga individuals) even with Taronga would have thought given the exhibit size they could have increased their group size which I believe someone on here once mentioned tends to make individuals less self conscious and shy when it comes to being seen by human visitor presence. The unfortunate situation with the Dholes at Taronga is a very solid example to mention (and on a personal level a big disappointment from my point of view when they were gone within less than ten years as you pointed out, not only because of natural attrition but also sending two of the individuals overseas again). Funnily enough Taronga's former Dholes actually lasted at the zoo much longer from the early '80s to early '00s (though last individuals would have been offspring of the imported individuals, meant more in terms of the first era of Dholes being kept at Taronga).
Adelaide should continue with Dusky Langurs and organise importing unrelated individuals to join the group, a second holder would be very helpful in maintaining them in the region (looking at you Perth). Because Melbourne has already sent their Javan Langurs away a fair while ago they should do what that phase out was all about and import some Francois (would love to see Auckland join in keeping them as ZooFan mentioned).
Adelaide should continue with Dusky Langurs and organise importing unrelated individuals to join the group, a second holder would be very helpful in maintaining them in the region (looking at you Perth). Because Melbourne has already sent their Javan Langurs away a fair while ago they should do what that phase out was all about and import some Francois (would love to see Auckland join in keeping them as ZooFan mentioned).
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Taronga has indeed had a number of species that have come and gone within a decade or two. Other examples include Temminck’s golden cat and Clouded leopard, which arrived at the zoo in 1992 and 1994 respectively, only to both be phased out the following decade.
My assumption is Taronga will maintain a troop of 2.4 for another year or so. Males of this species attain maturity at around four years of age, so that’s something to consider re. the three year old juvenile.
Long term, it’d be nice to see the troop grow in size. The two eldest females are getting on in years and another appears to be non reproductive, so further imports would be advantageous. Given offspring are clearly difficult to place in the region, I suspect at most we’ll see the import of a new male with breeding taking place with the youngest female (born 2015).
Francois would be a good fit for Adelaide Zoo as they’d compliment both the Giant panda (China) and the South East Asian species. If they acquire Snow leopard or Sri Lankan leopard (South Asia), Adelaide will have an extensive representation of Asia, which would be good to see.
Thought I’d reply here rather than detract further from the Taronga Zoo news thread. @Abbey, @Zorro, @steveroberts, @Swanson02, @Tigergal, @Patrick Keegan
I’ve found confirmation that all of Taronga’s langurs are managed as part of the EEP. I also see it’s at the beginning of this thread.
Complete History of Francois Langur at Taronga Zoo (2004-2022)
Hanoi and Saigon were imported from Nagoya Zoo in 2004 and produced their first offspring (0.1 Elke) in 2009, followed by the second (1.0 Gan Ju) in 2010 - who died a few weeks later.
Bobo and Meili were imported from Beijing Zoo in 2010 and were split, with Meili joining Hanoi and Saigon; and Bobo joining Elke. In 2011, Saigon gave birth to her third infant (1.0 Keo-co) and Meili gave birth to her first infant (1.0 Tam Dao).
Noel was imported from Blijdorp Zoo 12/11/2012.
Hanoi was exported to Belfast Zoo 17/04/2013.
Saigon gave birth to her fourth infant (0.1 Nuoc) in 2013, who died shortly after her reintegration into the troop. Saigon was exported to Howletts Zoo 30/04/2014.
Meili gave birth to her second infant (1.0 Nangua) in 2015; while Noel gave birth to her first infant (0.1 Embe in 2016). They lived in a troop with Bobo (sire of both infants) and Elke.
Keo-co and Tam Dao were housed off display, ahead of transferring to the National Zoo.
Meili subsequently produced three more infants (1.0 Jing in 2017, 1.0 Minh in 2018 and 1.0 Manchu in 2021); while Noel produced two infants (1.0 Didi in 2018 and 1.0 Ngai in 2019).
Bobo, Nangua, Jing, Minh and Didi were exported to Singapore Zoo in 2022, leaving the zoo with 2.4: Meili, Noel, Elke, Embe, Ngai and Manchu.
I’ve found confirmation that all of Taronga’s langurs are managed as part of the EEP. I also see it’s at the beginning of this thread.
Complete History of Francois Langur at Taronga Zoo (2004-2022)
Hanoi and Saigon were imported from Nagoya Zoo in 2004 and produced their first offspring (0.1 Elke) in 2009, followed by the second (1.0 Gan Ju) in 2010 - who died a few weeks later.
Bobo and Meili were imported from Beijing Zoo in 2010 and were split, with Meili joining Hanoi and Saigon; and Bobo joining Elke. In 2011, Saigon gave birth to her third infant (1.0 Keo-co) and Meili gave birth to her first infant (1.0 Tam Dao).
Noel was imported from Blijdorp Zoo 12/11/2012.
Hanoi was exported to Belfast Zoo 17/04/2013.
Saigon gave birth to her fourth infant (0.1 Nuoc) in 2013, who died shortly after her reintegration into the troop. Saigon was exported to Howletts Zoo 30/04/2014.
Meili gave birth to her second infant (1.0 Nangua) in 2015; while Noel gave birth to her first infant (0.1 Embe in 2016). They lived in a troop with Bobo (sire of both infants) and Elke.
Keo-co and Tam Dao were housed off display, ahead of transferring to the National Zoo.
Meili subsequently produced three more infants (1.0 Jing in 2017, 1.0 Minh in 2018 and 1.0 Manchu in 2021); while Noel produced two infants (1.0 Didi in 2018 and 1.0 Ngai in 2019).
Bobo, Nangua, Jing, Minh and Didi were exported to Singapore Zoo in 2022, leaving the zoo with 2.4: Meili, Noel, Elke, Embe, Ngai and Manchu.