ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade's Elephants 2022

[Rajang-GOAT]

I have further looked at Whipsnade's current Elephant herd and I have a question, are Kaylee and Lucha related, as they arrived at the zoo together and are a similar age? Also in my opinion the current size and complexity of the herd is quite underwhelming given its history- Two older females, the offspring of one, a younger female from Twycross, and her daughter. However this makes Donna's calf even more special, and hopefully the herd has a bright future!

 

[Zoofan15]

I have further looked at Whipsnade's current Elephant herd and I have a question, are Kaylee and Lucha related, as they arrived at the zoo together and are a similar age? Also in my opinion the current size and complexity of the herd is quite underwhelming given its history- Two older females, the offspring of one, a younger female from Twycross, and her daughter. However this makes Donna's calf even more special, and hopefully the herd has a bright future!

My instinct was to say no, they were both wild born - however I see they were both born in Burma and arrived the same date via the same animal dealer. I'd therefore say it's highly likely they were from the same matriachal herd and being the same age (not same mother), so are probably half siblings or cousins.

It'd be great if Donna has a female calf to establish a three generation matrilineal line and contribute to succession of the herd.

 

[The Hedgehog]

@Rajang-GOAT I suspect that Kaylee and Lucha are Sisters. The pair have a very strong bond. Actually Lucha is Donna’s “Auntie”. The fact that both Elephants are the same age,arrived from the same place and are so close makes me think their Sisters. I know that in Elephant heards all the Females are Aunties even if not biological. Despite I think Kaylee and Lucha are exceptionally bonded. On the other hand Kaylee and Lucha may be close as they’ve grown up together as Calfs. It’s a shame that a retained fetus has rendered Lucha infertile. Lucha would be an amazing a doting Mum,she’s so good around the Calfs.

 

[Yassa]

This animal dealer shipped around 35 young elephants to Europe. Supposedly they were all captive born in logging camps. It is possible some were related, but its unlikely that two that by chance ended up in the same zoo were. And I doubt matriarchal lines/ family groups existed in these logging camps.

 

[Panthera1981]

This animal dealer shipped around 35 young elephants to Europe. Supposedly they were all captive born in logging camps. It is possible some were related, but its unlikely that two that by chance ended up in the same zoo were. And I doubt matriarchal lines/ family groups existed in these logging camps.

Correct. None of the Asian elephant calves ZSL acquired in the 1980s were related, some (Azizah) certainly had traumatic backstories which they carried with them for the rest of their lives. 3/4 went to London (Azizah, Gita, Thai, Mya) and 3 went to Whipsnade (Anna, Kaylee, Lucha). Thai would eventually move to Chester as part of ZSL’s cost-cutting measures of the early 1990’s.

I don’t think we’ll ever know the true circumstances as to how ZSL acquired these elephants, and I’m certain ZSL probably weren’t told the true backstories that some of these individuals had. All I recall was that they were “acquired” from logging camps. Whether they were rescues I’m not sure, though thankfully Azizah managed to have some form of a fulfilling life. Thai was certainly the most successful out of all the rescues-the move to Chester was definitely the making of her!

 

[Zoofan15]

Correct. None of the Asian elephant calves ZSL acquired in the 1980s were related, some (Azizah) certainly had traumatic backstories which they carried with them for the rest of their lives. 3/4 went to London (Azizah, Gita, Thai, Mya) and 3 went to Whipsnade (Anna, Kaylee, Lucha). Thai would eventually move to Chester as part of ZSL’s cost-cutting measures of the early 1990’s.

I don’t think we’ll ever know the true circumstances as to how ZSL acquired these elephants, and I’m certain ZSL probably weren’t told the true backstories that some of these individuals had. All I recall was that they were “acquired” from logging camps. Whether they were rescues I’m not sure, though thankfully Azizah managed to have some form of a fulfilling life.

That's interesting to know re. Thi Hi Way. I was always under the understanding that she was transferred to Chester because she hadn't integrated into London's herd; but rather finances dictated an elephant would leave and her lack of integration determined it would be her. Reproductively she's been the most successful of the four, producing double the amount of calves as the most successful cow that remained with ZSL.

 

[Panthera1981]

That's interesting to know re. Thi Hi Way. I was always under the understanding that she was transferred to Chester because she hadn't integrated into London's herd; but rather finances dictated an elephant would leave and her lack of integration determined it would be her. Reproductively she's been the most successful of the four, producing double the amount of calves as the most successful cow that remained with ZSL.

If you can find a copy, I’d certainly refer you to Molly Dineen’s excellent film “The Ark.” Thi’s departure is covered in one of the episodes. She’s certainly referred to as ‘nervous’ so it probably made the decision easier for ZSL. I don’t think integration was ever an issue-she was very close to Azizah (Mya and Gita being the dominant personalities).

What most viewers overlook is the effect her departure has on Azizah as she’s loaded onto the truck. Very much a ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ moment. I never looked at Azizah the same way again after that.

 

[Rajang-GOAT]

This animal dealer shipped around 35 young elephants to Europe. Supposedly they were all captive born in logging camps. It is possible some were related, but its unlikely that two that by chance ended up in the same zoo were. And I doubt matriarchal lines/ family groups existed in these logging camps.

I thought this might be the case, and I was going to use my favourites Tanya and Zola at Colchester as an example, the I realised I'm not actually sure if they're related or not (I think they aren't). Anyway I don't they are particularly close anymore so maybe it is a bad example. That's quite interesting to know about all of those rescues that arrived together as other users have covered, it is a lot more clear to me now about the past of those elephants now, and Lucha and Kaylee seem unlikely to be related. I am also realising more and more now the importance of Donna's calf, not just genetically- it will/could be the first calf born at Whipsnade for 6 years (successfully), and the first elephant calf born in the UK for nearly 2 and half years- strange considering the last two were born within a month of each other, at Chester and Howletts just before lockdown. I now understand that a lot of the size of Whipsnade's herd was just made up of these rescue females, some that lived their whole lives at Whipsnade, others from London, and the lack of individuals now is from the rescues coming to the end of their lifespan. It is interesting to see though how successful Chester have been with Thi, compared to Whipsnade with Kaylee. Thi had a grandaughter in 2004 and a great grandson in 2012, while Kaylee only has another chance at a successful grandcalf in 2022.
I am sure now though, that Whipsnade will have a good chance at establishing a proper matriarchal herd now, similar to Chester's

 

[Zoofan15]

I thought this might be the case, and I was going to use my favourites Tanya and Zola at Colchester as an example, the I realised I'm not actually sure if they're related or not (I think they aren't). Anyway I don't they are particularly close anymore so maybe it is a bad example. That's quite interesting to know about all of those rescues that arrived together as other users have covered, it is a lot more clear to me now about the past of those elephants now, and Lucha and Kaylee seem unlikely to be related. I am also realising more and more now the importance of Donna's calf, not just genetically- it will/could be the first calf born at Whipsnade for 6 years (successfully), and the first elephant calf born in the UK for nearly 2 and half years- strange considering the last two were born within a month of each other, at Chester and Howletts just before lockdown. I now understand that a lot of the size of Whipsnade's herd was just made up of these rescue females, some that lived their whole lives at Whipsnade, others from London, and the lack of individuals now is from the rescues coming to the end of their lifespan. It is interesting to see though how successful Chester have been with Thi, compared to Whipsnade with Kaylee. Thi had a grandaughter in 2004 and a great grandson in 2012, while Kaylee only has another chance at a successful grandcalf in 2022.
I am sure now though, that Whipsnade will have a good chance at establishing a proper matriarchal herd now, similar to Chester's

Thi Hi Way got off to a good start by producing a surviving daughter at the age of 15 in 1997. This female was essential to establishing a matrilineal line by in turn producing her own calf at the young age of seven years in 2004.

Thi's success is most notable against her London counterparts, who spent close to a decade at London without the opportunity to breed. Azizah subsequently produced four calves after her rraanfer to Whipsnade in 2001, but these were all male and therefore didn't contribute to succession.

 

[Panthera1981]

I personally wouldn’t say the Whipsnade herd was an unsuccessful breeding group, more the victims of bad luck, most notably the ravages of EEHV. Certainly both Kaylee and Azizah produced their fair share of calves. Let’s not forget all bar one (Mya) bred with Emmett with varying degrees of success. For example Lucha, as we know, retains the foetus and Anna died in childbirth having been carrying twins!

 

[Zoofan15]

I personally wouldn’t say the Whipsnade herd was an unsuccessful breeding group, more the victims of bad luck, most notably the ravages of EEHV. Certainly both Kaylee and Azizah produced their fair share of calves. Let’s not forget all bar one (Mya) bred with Emmett with varying degrees of success. For example Lucha, as we know, retains the foetus and Anna died in childbirth having been carrying twins!

It's worth noting as well that Kaylee's non surviving calves (EEHV) were female as well. While the loss of any calf is tragic, the loss of female calves such as these have the greatest impact on the future of the herd. Had her eldest calf survived, she would be 18 years old now and could potentially have had two or three calves by now.

Hopefully after the loss of her female calf in 2019, Donna will be more successful this time around; and Elizabeth will hopefully have a bright re productive future ahead of her.

 

[Zoofan15]

Fates of Whipsnade’s Elephant Calves

0.0.1 Unnamed (2002) Emmett x Lucha STILLBORN
0.0.1 Unnamed (2002) Emmett x Anna STILLBORN
0.0.1 Unnamed (2002) Emmett x Anna STILLBORN
0.1 Aneena (2004) Emmett x Kaylee DIED/EEHV
1.0 Euan (2004) Emmett x Azizah EXPORTED/DEAD
0.1 Leelee (2007) Emmett x Kaylee DIED/EEHV
1.0 Donaldson (2008) Emmett x Azizah DIED/EEHV
0.1 Donna (2009) Emmett x Kaylee ALIVE/RETAINED
1.0 George (2010) Emmett x Karishma EXPORTED/ALIVE
1.0 Scott (2011) Emmett x Azizah EXPORTED/ALIVE
1.0 Max (2013) Emmett x Karishma DIED/EEHV
1.0 Sam (2014) Emmett x Azizah EXPORTED/ALIVE
0.1 Elizabeth (2016) Emmett x Karishma ALIVE/RETAINED
0.1 Unnamed (2019) Raja x Donna DIED
0.0.1 Unnamed (UNK) Emmett x Karishma STILLBORN

15 calves:

Four stillborn (including twins)
Five died (including four from EEHV)
Four exported (three still alive)
Two alive and retained (females)

This highlights the challenges Whipsnade have faced in building up their herd as well as how significant Donna and Elizabeth are to the future of the herd.

Given they have three reproductively viable young females and there’s been no incidences of EEHV in close to a decade, I’m optimistic for the herd’s future and hope a surviving female calf will be welcomed by Donna.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Will all Female Elephant Calfs born at Whipsnade,remain there their entire life?

 

[Jambo]

Will all Female Elephant Calfs born at Whipsnade,remain there their entire life?

Yes, it's vital for the succession of the herd. Whipsnade have the facilities to hold a large herd, so if the herd is managing properly, they shouldn't have any problems.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I’ve watched this YouTube video filmed at Whipsnade Zoo. Note it’s not mine. 3 Elephants feature I think the Adults are Kaylee and Lucha. Who is the Calf? My guess would be Euan,or Donna. I would’ve said Leelee but she was younger than this Calf when she passed.

Incidentally was Leelee named after the head Elephant Keeper Lee. Another reason I think Leelee may have got her name is after her Mum KayLEE(LEE).

Finally I was watching a documentary about the ZSL Zoo’s that was filmed throughout the original lockdown. There was a segment about the Elephants. There was a Elephant Calf named Beth. Would this be Elizabeth having her name shortened? If the Keepers do call her Beth is this her other name? For example Donna’s second name is Geetha.

 

[Zoofan15]

Will all Female Elephant Calfs born at Whipsnade,remain there their entire life?

Yes - in line with best practices across all European zoos. The only exception is when conflicts arise that would be improved for all elephants by the removal of one female; or if the herd grows to sufficient numbers to warrant a split - both are extremely unlikely events.

Long term, we can expect to see Elizabeth continue Karishma’s matrilineal line as Donna is doing for Kaylee. This will in turn be carried on through their daughters.

 

[Jambo]

Note it’s not mine. 3 Elephants feature I think the Adults are Kaylee and Lucha. Who is the Calf? My guess would be Euan,or Donna. I would’ve said Leelee but she was younger than this Calf when she passed.

It can't be Donna as the video was shot in 2008, and the calf looks bigger than Leelee so it has to be Euan. The females are Kaylee and Lucha.

And re. Beth, that would be Elizabeth. Beth is short for Elizabeth, so it's likely a nickname used by keepers instead of using Elizabeth which is a rather lengthy name and can be a mouthful. I assume her other name will be something else, not Beth (that is if she has one).

 

[dillotest0]

For those who wish not to subject their ears to the unnecessary soundtrack which plays throughout the video, another person seemingly has uploaded the entirety of an Elephantastic event in 2013.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbfmsi9QUQUpn9viaEZzCvg/videos
I'd imagine these events ceased around the same time Whipsnade moved to protected contact and thus also ceased the elephant walk-arounds..
The event in question seems to be something of an interesting mix between education on zoo elephant husbandry and pure 'entertainment' - in one part [part 5] there is a segment about brushing the elephants' backs - where "Lucha" refuses to lay down for the keepers, and even signals 'no' by shaking her head, after which "Donna" grabs hold of a keeper by trunk usage, and "has an idea" she "whispers" to the keeper by raising her trunk, having an open mouth and nodding her head. Later, when offered a banana, Lucha signals "yes" by nodding her head. = s

 

[The Hedgehog]

Yes, it's vital for the succession of the herd. Whipsnade have the facilities to hold a large herd, so if the herd is managing properly, they shouldn't have any problems.

@Jambo I hope Whipsnade can nurture a Family Herd. Jambo do you know how Whipsnade can avoid a split herd,as they had while Mya lived there. This situation was far from ideal. The best thing that happened to Whipsnade’s Elephant herd was the departure of Mya. Mya caused nothing but problems not only for the herd but for the Keepers. She had to live separate in a herd with Karishma and Elizabeth. Secondly due to her aggressive and domineering personality she broke the heard and their bond. The reason the heard was split initially was because Mya loathed Kaylee. Mya wasn’t just aggressive towards the Elephants but too keepers. Mya was the Elephant that killed a Keeper at London Zoo. Don’t quote me,but I believe at Whipsnade Mya broke a Keepers arm. The result was that Mya didn’t walk with the keepers through the Zoo. Finally the keepers didn’t deem it safe to have direct contact with Mya.

 

[dillotest0]

@Jambo I hope Whipsnade can nurture a Family Herd. Jambo do you know how Whipsnade can avoid a split herd,as they had while Mya lived there. This situation was far from ideal. The best thing that happened to Whipsnade’s Elephant herd was the departure of Mya. Mya caused nothing but problems not only for the herd but for the Keepers. She had to live separate in a herd with Karishma and Elizabeth. Secondly due to her aggressive and domineering personality she broke the heard and their bond. The reason the heard was split initially was because Mya loathed Kaylee. Mya wasn’t just aggressive towards the Elephants but too keepers. Mya was the Elephant that killed a Keeper at London Zoo. Don’t quote me,but I believe at Whipsnade Mya broke a Keepers arm. The result was that Mya didn’t walk with the keepers through the Zoo. Finally the keepers didn’t deem it safe to have direct contact with Mya.

Perhaps this was also part the reason the direct contact + elephant walks were ceased altogether?
Or was this before that