Sutton's still rather young, and sending him would leave his mother by herself. I don't think it's best for him to be sent anywhere anytime soon unless at least two or three females can be sent to join Five; possibly the Colchester cows.
African Elephants In Europe 2022
- Thread starter Hyak_II
- Start date
Sutton's still rather young, and sending him would leave his mother by herself. I don't think it's best for him to be sent anywhere anytime soon unless at least two or three females can be sent to join Five; possibly the Colchester cows.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
I haven't visited since June, and before that I had only visited twice, so I am yet to properly question keepers though I hope to next visit, all I have currently heard is A.I being considered between Tembo and one of the cowes (I don't know which as the keeper I was questioning wasn't sure) and Tanya and Opal potentially gradually being moved into PC (this was all in April), and the little I have heard has been quite positive so I wouldn't rule anything out, but of course I would love to find out more to answer these questions. I haven't heard much yet to answer these questions but personally I just want the current elephants to stay, though I would love Jambo to return, I don't know how likely Tembo and Jambo living together would be...
Personally I would like to see 2 or 3 new females join Tanya, Zola, and Opal to breed with Tembo and respark a successful breeding herd of African Elephants at Colchester Zoo. If Tembo HAD to leave, I would take a swap with Jambo, though I wouldn't deliberately swap him in now solely as a breeding male now, because like others have said, he is not a proven breeder, so maybe he could go to Noah's Ark first, to improve his social skills.
In terms of orangutans, I fear this might be a bit off topic, as I said I haven't visited as often as I would have liked, but I believe they are all getting along well, and Mali and Tatau I imagine are not as active as they were previously, but I think they are improving as they settle in. My username is mostly because of Rajang being a legend of Colchester Zoo, though I do like Orangutans, I am not an expert, and have even missed visiting them multiple times this year, so maybe you are better off asking someone else. Anyway I have seen Mali and Tiga getting along well and I'm sure this is probably the case with all 3 of them now unless someone has seen otherwise.
It's interesting to hear AI was being considered. Tanya and Opal are both in their early 40's, and Tanya hasn't given birth in 20 years so pregnancy is pretty much impossible for her now. Opal, on the other hand, had a stillborn twelve years ago. Factoring in her age, it's unlikely she too will ever conceive so if Colchester wish to continue breeding, new cows will be needed.
Tembo and Jambo living together wouldn't work well. Two bulls; especially living in close vicinity of cows can be a bad idea.
I don't see a sense in making them breed even if they could get pregnant. It is too late to build something with these animals. I guess it's more of the category "the zoo wishes to present a baby" than something that helps the EEP. The focus needs to be on the existing matrilines and the singular cows who are max 25 (rather 20) years old.
I agree, although at least if a calf/calves were born, and if they were female, a future herd could be created surrounding them. Colchester's females are also very valuable; being wildborn and not having any living offspring. So I can see where the desire to breed them still comes from.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@Jambo I think Tembo should move to Bioparc Valencia. I’m pleased that you agree with me. Having Jambo in a herd with elder Elephants with a poor breeding record is a waste. Tembo is actually extremely genetically important. Tembo’s only living captive relatives are his Sons Abu Jambo and Abu’s Sons. As we know Tembo was captured from the Wild as a Calf and forced to perform in Mary Chipperfield’s Circus.
I think Jambo along with a few of the Cowes from Bioparc Valencia, should move to Colchester Zoo. Could a change of Zoo and a fresh start stimulate breeding? I think Matla Bioparc Valencia’s Matriarch is a large factor in the lack of breeding. Matla has never really accepted Jambo. Effectively Matla has ousted Jambo from the herd. For a few years now Jambo has lived a solitary life. It’s a shame that Bette and Greta were moved Beekse Bergen Safari Park. These Cowes bonded with and accepted Jambo from the start. In fact when Jambo arrived from Colchester,Bette,Greta and a Cowe called Bully were the first he was introduced to. If you watched the Zoo Days Series you would seen Jambo being introduced to these Cowes. @Jambo have you been told any official information about Elephant arrivals/departures from Colchester Zoo. Finally have the Zoo said the arrival of Jambo is a possibility?
I think Jambo along with a few of the Cowes from Bioparc Valencia, should move to Colchester Zoo. Could a change of Zoo and a fresh start stimulate breeding? I think Matla Bioparc Valencia’s Matriarch is a large factor in the lack of breeding. Matla has never really accepted Jambo. Effectively Matla has ousted Jambo from the herd. For a few years now Jambo has lived a solitary life. It’s a shame that Bette and Greta were moved Beekse Bergen Safari Park. These Cowes bonded with and accepted Jambo from the start. In fact when Jambo arrived from Colchester,Bette,Greta and a Cowe called Bully were the first he was introduced to. If you watched the Zoo Days Series you would seen Jambo being introduced to these Cowes. @Jambo have you been told any official information about Elephant arrivals/departures from Colchester Zoo. Finally have the Zoo said the arrival of Jambo is a possibility?
I think you mean Tembo when talking about being in a herd with elderly elephants. Jambo certainly is not; Valencia has multiple breeding age females. Tembo is incredibly valuable being wildborn. The studbook coordinator will probably want to breed from him again.
Bringing the cows from Valencia would be a big risk, especially as Jambo hasn’t succeeded with them to date. A new environment could change things for Jambo, although if he hasn’t proven himself yet, he still has plenty of time.
Do you know that for a fact re. Malta? Bulls normally live solitary and can be an incredible annoyance to the females, so it’s not a surprise Malta was ousting him out of the herd. I don’t think that has anything to do with Jambo’s lack of success thus far.
I do not have any information regarding any imports/transfers. That’s all just speculation on my behalf. Regarding Jambo arriving back, the zoo hasn’t formally announced anything afaik. Swapping him and Tembo is just the best option and is a win win for both zoos at the present time.
I think there are enough potential matrilines where it makes more sense, e.g. all cows in Valencia where I don't think it will work in this constellation, regardless who the bull is; but also in Warsaw, Lisbon, Beauval or Kronberg you'd have singular younger cows.
I still think though, the best option is for Colchester to start over and import a new bull (or keep Tembo), and import three breeding age cows from another facility.
There are many options for the current Colchester cows such as the aforementioned West Midlands, Warsaw, Lisbon ect.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@Jambo I was referring to Tembo rather than Tembo when referring to him being with Elder Cowes. Sorry for the mistake
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Tooth the breeding bull at the Wuppertal Zoo is stated to leave Wuppertal
"In recent months, zoo visitors have only been able to see the African elephant bull "Tooth" alone in one of the enclosures in the zoological garden of the city of Wuppertal.
Either the large male African elephant "Tooth" could be seen alone in the large outdoor area at the elephant house or alone in the smaller outdoor area, the so-called bull outdoor area, or alone in the bull indoor enclosure in the elephant house.
The African elephant bull "Tooth" has been in the Wuppertal Green Zoo since May 28, 2019. On this day, the then Wuppertal elephant breeding bull "Tusker" left the Wuppertal Zoo and traveled to the Ouwehands Dierenpark in Rhenen in the Netherlands. In return, the elephant bull "Tooth" moved from the Ouwehands Dierenpark Rhenen to the zoological garden of the city of Wuppertal.
"Tooth" mated two of the three adult African elephant cows in the Wuppertal Green Zoo. The Wuppertal African elephant cow "Tika" is expected to have offspring in autumn 2022 and the Wuppertal African elephant cow "Sabie" is expected to have offspring in the summer of 2023.
During a mating attempt with the Wuppertal elephant cow "Sweni" there was an incident at the time. As a result of this incident and other incidents involving younger elephants, the strong male elephant "Tooth" was separated and has only ever used one of the elephant enclosures allocated to him alone.
Zoo guests have been saying for some time that the African elephant bull "Tooth" will probably leave the Green Zoo in Wuppertal in 2022. The Nyíregyháza Zoo (Sóstó Zoo) in Hungary was discussed as a future location for "Tooth".
With the sale of the African elephant breeding bull "Tooth" there would be more freedom of movement in Wuppertal for the remaining herd of elephants and the two expected young animals.
In addition, the Grüner Zoo Wuppertal is planning a serious redesign and expansion of the current elephant area in the Wuppertal Zoo by 2031. Without breeding elephant bulls, there would be greater flexibility of use for the elephant areas then under conversion during the conversion phase."
Either the large male African elephant "Tooth" could be seen alone in the large outdoor area at the elephant house or alone in the smaller outdoor area, the so-called bull outdoor area, or alone in the bull indoor enclosure in the elephant house.
The African elephant bull "Tooth" has been in the Wuppertal Green Zoo since May 28, 2019. On this day, the then Wuppertal elephant breeding bull "Tusker" left the Wuppertal Zoo and traveled to the Ouwehands Dierenpark in Rhenen in the Netherlands. In return, the elephant bull "Tooth" moved from the Ouwehands Dierenpark Rhenen to the zoological garden of the city of Wuppertal.
"Tooth" mated two of the three adult African elephant cows in the Wuppertal Green Zoo. The Wuppertal African elephant cow "Tika" is expected to have offspring in autumn 2022 and the Wuppertal African elephant cow "Sabie" is expected to have offspring in the summer of 2023.
During a mating attempt with the Wuppertal elephant cow "Sweni" there was an incident at the time. As a result of this incident and other incidents involving younger elephants, the strong male elephant "Tooth" was separated and has only ever used one of the elephant enclosures allocated to him alone.
Zoo guests have been saying for some time that the African elephant bull "Tooth" will probably leave the Green Zoo in Wuppertal in 2022. The Nyíregyháza Zoo (Sóstó Zoo) in Hungary was discussed as a future location for "Tooth".
With the sale of the African elephant breeding bull "Tooth" there would be more freedom of movement in Wuppertal for the remaining herd of elephants and the two expected young animals.
In addition, the Grüner Zoo Wuppertal is planning a serious redesign and expansion of the current elephant area in the Wuppertal Zoo by 2031. Without breeding elephant bulls, there would be greater flexibility of use for the elephant areas then under conversion during the conversion phase."
Interesting that it says there was an incident during a breeding attempt with Sweni and that he's been separated since then, wonder what exactly happened. Nonetheless, it's unfortunate he wasn't able to get her pregnant as she still doesn't have a female calf to continue her matriline. Hopefully, they AI her at some point soon at least.
Also interesting that his destination is Sosto considering they already have a bull, Jack, who's probably already gotten their only breeding cow, Kwanza, pregnant. Her daughter, Kimani, is still years away from breeding age so I'm confused why they've decided to send him there. Perhaps just a temporary move? I would hope so considering he has valuable genes and has proven himself as a successful breeding bull.
That's an interesting statment. The article suggests that Tooth had problems with young elephants. Would it mean that he's unsuitable to a breeding group situation ? Maybe could it be easier to manage him in a smaller group, like Sosto ? I guess if Tooth move to Sosto, Jack will have to leave. It's a great news, because Jack is also really genetically valuable, and it would be really nice if he had some offsprings somewhere else.
The article implies the size difference (specifically his strength) was the issue. The export to Sosto is strange as he appears to have little breeding application there (the only reproductive age female may be pregnant as @IndianRhino has said) and they have a juvenile in the matriarchal herd.
My assumption would be they can better manage him living separately from the matriarchal herd compared to Wuppertal, who perhaps want the space for their expanding herd (calves due).
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
From what I know I imagine that Colchester are currently putting effort into trying to breed with the group they have presumably using A.I (maybe naturally as well). Also there is a Facebook post from 2 days ago showing Tanya, Opal, and Zola all outside together, normally it is Tanya and Opal in the cow paddock with Zola joining Tembo in the bull paddock, maybe this is evidence of someing being tried. Anyway this plan A would work if one or more females are successfully born between Tanya, Opal, and Zola, they would eventually be able to continue the herd to the next generation. Some of you may question the reproductive abilities of these females, and to that I say that the keepers know more about these Elephants than we do, and what will and won't work with them. In my mind, a plan B would feature two or three younger cows, maybe from Valencia, to join the existing herd (there would be room, especially if Zola stayed with Tembo) and breed with Tembo, to help re establish a breeding herd. I imagine Colchester Zoo would be able to get their way if they tried, because om the website it lists the curator as being co-chair BIAZA Elephant focus group. I will hopefully find out if my assumptions for the main plan of what they are currently trying to achieve is right when I next visit, but this is just a prediction from what I know already.
It would be great to see Colchester finally experience success in breeding their elephants given the last birth was 18 years ago.
Opal represents their best chance at success of the three cows - but even then it’s improbable. She last gave birth 12 years ago, which is past the 10 year gap and is now 40 years old. Her previous calf was stillborn, but it’s worth noting that this was her first and only calf and the incidence of stillbirths is lower for that of a second birth. It’s a great shame she never conceived in the first few years that followed as that would have been her best chance.
Zola has had the shortest gap since her last birth (11 years) but considering all four of her calves were stillborn, I struggle to see her having a live birth.
It’s been 20 years since Tanya gave birth, which suggests she’s no longer reproductively viable. Like Opal, it’s a real shame she never conceived in the years that followed (mid to late 2000’s), as she’s the only one of the three to have had a live birth.
Breeding the females again is worth a try, and potentially not out of question, but highly unlikely.
It's impossible for Tanya; she last gave birth two decades ago. Opal's a chance I guess, and I doubt they'd attempt to breed Zola again due to her extensive history with stillbirths.
I think the best option is to import a further two cows than from elsewhere. Possibly a mother and daughter duo from somewhere. Valencia also have six similar aged females, and could easily send two females, possibly for Tembo (a successful bull) if they wish.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
I agree that this situation seems dire, but as I said, the zoo probably knows things we don't about the Elephants, or I hope they do- that what be the only thing to explain not yet acquiring new females.
Hopefully I'll find out for all of us soon...
Hopefully I'll find out for all of us soon...
I look forward to hearing what you can find out. Given the factors at play, including the ages of the females involved (40-41 years), I believe the future of the herd lies with the acquisition of new females.
The difficulty here will be sourcing stand alone young females given it’s standard practice not to split matrilineal lines; and introducing mature cows into Colchester’s herd would surely bring about resistance from the incumbent cows.
Unless the zoo are prepared to manage multiple herds, it may be better to let the current group pass on and found a new herd in 15-20 years time.