Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Nellie is a female born in 2013 and is the second daughter of Natasha, and firstborn of Johnsons many daughters
North American Asian Elephant Population 2022
- Thread starter John Marchwick
- Start date
Thanks, and that's right. My notes were just incorrect.
No, Nellie's a female. One of Natasha's four daughters (not counting her 2021 calf since we don't know that one's sex).
The reason Emily and Nellie were chosen to be sent was that they are both related to ALS's breeding bull, Johnson, and they're unwilling to let him go since he's a really nice bull to work with. It's unfortunate that the plans were canceled and Emily has another inbred calf. ALS's going to have to source a new bull eventually though with the oldest few of his 7+ female offspring hitting breeding age.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
I believe the plan is to get a new bull from Europe to mate with Emily and the oldest of his daughters. And ALS has proven in the past that they can keep three adult bulls with them keeping Tusko, Rex, and Buke together in past. So they could possibly retain Johnson to mate with Natasha, and Opal, George to be a lead bull in a herd of bachelors, and a bull from Europe to mate with Emily and daughters of Johnson.
As this photo shows
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That would be ideal. Europe has a lot of bulls to chose from, so there should no issues there. The only issue though, is the bull would be managed via free contact, and so, would be differently managed than the rest of ALS's herd, and will have to be kept with Johnson (if they're compatible), or in another seperate enclosure. I'm not entirely sure of ALS's layout, but I believe they have enough to accomodate three bulls.
No, a new breeding bull for ALS would be managed protected contact, regardless of nature. Johnson is an easy going and pleasant bull who *could* be managed FC, but they still manage him PC just to be safe.
In terms of holding capacity, they can technically still manage 3 adult, breeding bulls, as they have three yards suitable to contain them. However a facility like ALS is best off with only one or maybe two bulls at a time. Their bull yards aren’t particularly large, so having only one animal allows them more space to move.
Also for George, who as mentioned is chemically castrated, he is managed like and socially functions as a non breeding cow, with the possible exception that he is a bit more willing to spar with younger bulls than your average cow would be willing to.
In terms of holding capacity, they can technically still manage 3 adult, breeding bulls, as they have three yards suitable to contain them. However a facility like ALS is best off with only one or maybe two bulls at a time. Their bull yards aren’t particularly large, so having only one animal allows them more space to move.
Also for George, who as mentioned is chemically castrated, he is managed like and socially functions as a non breeding cow, with the possible exception that he is a bit more willing to spar with younger bulls than your average cow would be willing to.
Apparently Columbus has been working on inseminating Rudy. Sunny wasn’t mentioned so perhaps she’s already pregnant from Beco or I’m reading too far into it and they’re just waiting till she’s in her early twenties like Rudy to start thinking about breeding…
Nonetheless, fingers crossed for a calf or two from Columbus within the next two years!
Nonetheless, fingers crossed for a calf or two from Columbus within the next two years!
Rudy's twenty, so I can see their need to breed her now.
Sunny's only fourteen, so they can obviously afford to wait a little longer before breeding from her. AI is expensive, so even if they wanted to, it would make more sense to just attempt to AI Rudy now (as she's running out of time).
Fingers crossed that the procedure is successful!
Any idea who these bulls could possibly be?
elephant.se is reporting today that bull Charlie died at the former CEC
That's tragic news, he would've been 50 next year.
Hopefully his genetics will be able to be continued through his twelve surviving offspring. There's hope both Rudy and Sundara at Columbus will conceive soon; so hopefully he'll have some grandchildren there soon too.
That's surprising. Doesn't OKC already have two bulls?
I agree, I’m quite surprised by this move. OKC already has Rex and Kandula, both of whom are suitable breeding bulls that OKC should definitely be able to continue with. Perhaps they’re planning on creating a bachelor herd, but also allow the bulls to breed with the girls when needed.
Hm, I agree, definitely a somewhat interesting move, but I can see the logic in it as well.
Rex is a bull that enjoys two things, breeding and eating. Beyond procreation purposes, he has little desire to interact with other elephants as far as I’m aware. Kandula, at 21, is largely past the overly rambunctious, at times obnoxious, hyperactivity of bull elephant adolescence, and seems to be rather compatible with the cow herd.
While OKC doesn’t *need* another bull, and Kandula is actually a decent bit more genetically valuable than Bowie, it also offers some bonuses. As far as I’m aware, Bowie has been living almost entirely alone for the past few years now, only interacting the other other elephants at Fort Worth through gates and fences. At OKC, he will likely spend a good amount of time with Kandula, and Kandula, being a good natured and social bull, will likely serve as an excellent sparring partner and mentor to Bowie. Additionally, we don’t have any idea, as least at the moment, of Kandulas actual breeding potential (although I have no doubt he will be virile much like his sire, grandsire, and numerous half siblings); but in the event he is not a natural breeder or fertile for whatever reason, Bowie could step up to breed with Achara, Kairavi, and Rama as well. Its also becoming apparent that large elephant herds offer a better degree of herpes immunity to calves due to more regular exposure of calves to shedding adults (therefore keeping their immune systems primed and able to fight the virus), and with the addition of Bowie, that would push OKC up to a respectable 7 mature animals in a variety of dynamic social situations, which is hopefully enough to ensure herd based immunity for Kai, Rama, and other calves in the future.
Rex is a bull that enjoys two things, breeding and eating. Beyond procreation purposes, he has little desire to interact with other elephants as far as I’m aware. Kandula, at 21, is largely past the overly rambunctious, at times obnoxious, hyperactivity of bull elephant adolescence, and seems to be rather compatible with the cow herd.
While OKC doesn’t *need* another bull, and Kandula is actually a decent bit more genetically valuable than Bowie, it also offers some bonuses. As far as I’m aware, Bowie has been living almost entirely alone for the past few years now, only interacting the other other elephants at Fort Worth through gates and fences. At OKC, he will likely spend a good amount of time with Kandula, and Kandula, being a good natured and social bull, will likely serve as an excellent sparring partner and mentor to Bowie. Additionally, we don’t have any idea, as least at the moment, of Kandulas actual breeding potential (although I have no doubt he will be virile much like his sire, grandsire, and numerous half siblings); but in the event he is not a natural breeder or fertile for whatever reason, Bowie could step up to breed with Achara, Kairavi, and Rama as well. Its also becoming apparent that large elephant herds offer a better degree of herpes immunity to calves due to more regular exposure of calves to shedding adults (therefore keeping their immune systems primed and able to fight the virus), and with the addition of Bowie, that would push OKC up to a respectable 7 mature animals in a variety of dynamic social situations, which is hopefully enough to ensure herd based immunity for Kai, Rama, and other calves in the future.
Rex is also getting on in age too so if Kandula struggles to breed, OKC will still hopefully have a young bull, Bowie, as potentially a back up.
I think @Hyak_II was just simply referring to the future, where EEHV will hopefully be less prominent due to the addition of another adult.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
In some saddening news, 62-year-old Lucky has passed away this morning at San Antonio Zoo. The zoo will relocate the zoo's other elephant, 46-year-old Nicole, when a new home is found for her. She is the second elephant to die at the zoo this year, after 53-year-old Karen died in March.