Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Bodhi is the older brother of Beco, not the other way around.
North American Asian Elephant Population 2022
- Thread starter John Marchwick
- Start date
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Anak and her son are from the Motek x Warda line the same line that Throng Nhi and her daughter Nhi Linh descend from Throng Nhi is a half-sister to Anak through their father Alexander so for the North American population they aren't really that special, while Yasmin and her son are extremely genetically valuable to the population the only other induvial in the population that is related to them is Yasmin's aunt Schottzi so any calves born to Yasmin and Sabu will be a great benefit for the population as well as any calves Kabir sires.
Considering the post said they will get the chance to breed with Sabu - we can assume they're not already pregnant, otherwise they wouldn't be able to breed. But again, this is just an assumption, not a fact.
Yes, i'm aware; but it would be better if Bohdi was transferred to a facility where he could mate naturally and not rely on AI to breed from him.
Kabir and Sanjay are actually rather valuable to the region - the females are their respective mothers too, so if the females are valuable, so are they.
Also an interesting note is that these individuals are related to Schottzie too:
Chang Mei - Schottzie
Chang Mei - Irma - Yasmin - Kabir/Anak - Sanjay
how am I doing the most speculation when I’m asking questions? I didn’t start saying Rudy and Sunny aren’t pregnant, I didn’t start Rudy and Sunny are pregnant, do you realize the information I get from whenever I hear this stuff that I can’t even figure out is true or not true comes from users like you who post this stuff so you’re actually one to talk about speculation.
I was referring to Beco. We do know he was with Sunny and Rudy and I remember someone saying that Sunny bred with Beco. But it seems now Sunny is not pregnant as per this announcement and she may never have conceived with Beco.
It is a fact that Sabu will have the opportunity to interact with the three cows and breed them if they are cycling and receptive to him.
This absolutely phenomenal news!
In truth, I had been expecting Columbus to simply recall Bodhi to Denver and attempt to use him as their new breeding bull for Rudy and Sunny, while contenting themselves to continue to attempt to breed from Phoebe via AI with Hank.
Give his genetic value and proven breeding history, as IndianRhino mentioned, I have no doubt we will begin to see pregnancies in the near future. Phoebe is currently at the perfect stage to fall pregnant, and Sundara is as well. We know Rudy was recently artificially inseminated, however we don’t know the outcome of that as of yet. Of course if she’s pregnant she will go on to birth her calf, but if she is not, I have no doubt that she will also be introduced to Sabu for breeding in the near future as well.
This move also sets Columbus up for a very strong herd without the need to bring in any further animals for a number of years. Any of Sabu’s female calves produced with Rudy and Sunny could breed with Frankie, and any female calves with Phoebe could be artificially inseminated with Hank.
As it is I wouldn’t be overly keen to transfer any animals out as their current social structure seems to be fairly steady, however I can see Hank and Connie potentially being transferred out at some point in the near future, especially as more calves continue to hit the ground at Columbus.
In regards to what’s currently happening with Cincinnati, I would not be surprised if they end up retaining their original herd of three cows in the old elephant habitat (and giving them the full space available to them), and upon the arrival of the European group, either retain them in two separate herds, or send the older female herd out to another retirement facility. Of course it’s just as likely they may try to combine the two groups, but this does pose some issues. While generally compatible, we already know there is a bit of strife within the female group at Cincinnati. In addition to this, Yasmin (the eldest of the European cows) will likely attempt to cement her place as matriarch, and will have the backup of her daughter and sons as well, which could cause trouble with the older three. There’s no point speculating as nothing is going to happen for at least another two years, but still, who knows at this point?
In truth, I had been expecting Columbus to simply recall Bodhi to Denver and attempt to use him as their new breeding bull for Rudy and Sunny, while contenting themselves to continue to attempt to breed from Phoebe via AI with Hank.
Give his genetic value and proven breeding history, as IndianRhino mentioned, I have no doubt we will begin to see pregnancies in the near future. Phoebe is currently at the perfect stage to fall pregnant, and Sundara is as well. We know Rudy was recently artificially inseminated, however we don’t know the outcome of that as of yet. Of course if she’s pregnant she will go on to birth her calf, but if she is not, I have no doubt that she will also be introduced to Sabu for breeding in the near future as well.
This move also sets Columbus up for a very strong herd without the need to bring in any further animals for a number of years. Any of Sabu’s female calves produced with Rudy and Sunny could breed with Frankie, and any female calves with Phoebe could be artificially inseminated with Hank.
As it is I wouldn’t be overly keen to transfer any animals out as their current social structure seems to be fairly steady, however I can see Hank and Connie potentially being transferred out at some point in the near future, especially as more calves continue to hit the ground at Columbus.
In regards to what’s currently happening with Cincinnati, I would not be surprised if they end up retaining their original herd of three cows in the old elephant habitat (and giving them the full space available to them), and upon the arrival of the European group, either retain them in two separate herds, or send the older female herd out to another retirement facility. Of course it’s just as likely they may try to combine the two groups, but this does pose some issues. While generally compatible, we already know there is a bit of strife within the female group at Cincinnati. In addition to this, Yasmin (the eldest of the European cows) will likely attempt to cement her place as matriarch, and will have the backup of her daughter and sons as well, which could cause trouble with the older three. There’s no point speculating as nothing is going to happen for at least another two years, but still, who knows at this point?
I think @Hyak_II was just referring to the older cows being kept in the current enclosure in the meantime.
Yasmin isn't the matriarch at Dublin though - she's under her older sister, Bernadhine, so may be able to slot in underneath Mai Thai, but who knows really. I imagine Cincinnati will at least try to integrate the two herds - and they have the space for five adult cows, which won't be an issue.
who was the matriarch at Rotterdam when Bernardine was at Krefield (I think it was) and Munster before returning to Rotterdam? Was it Irma? Herd dynamics have changed over time.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Imara was and still is the Rotterdams lead female
Yes, I believe their mother, Irma was/is the matriarch at Rotterdam. She has been for quite a long time.
Mai Thai
Well-Known Member
The Cincinnati Zoo has no plans at the moment for sending out their female elephants. There was talk for a while that they were considering moving them to the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee but those plans are no longer happening. The Dublin elephants, females Yasmin and Anak as well as males Kabir and Sanjay are planned to arrive sometime in 2023 with Sabu moving back from Columbus to join them. In 2024 once the habitat is fully finished then Mai Thai, Schottzie, and Jati will move to Elephant Trek and join the rest of the herd. Introductions will be attempted between the Cincy girls and the Dublin elephants as the zoo hopes to combine them into one big herd. Currently the Cincy herd is very unstable with Schottzie and Jati working out who is the dominant elephant. The herd does not currently have a matriarch but @Jambo Mai Thai has never been the dominant elephant as she is very calm and tries to say out of the others way. The zoo often states Schottzie is the matriarch as for a while she was. Also Sabu was not meant to go to Columbus for breeding purposes. The real reason is with winter approaching Cincinnati does not have enough indoor space for all four elephants. After the aggression incident between Jati and Mai Thai last the zoo decided to make more space for the elephants. Sabu took up half the back stalls of the elephant house which gave the girls less space. Now they will have the whole barn to themselves which will calm them down and provide more space for and enrichment. It would be a huge bonus if Sabu were to produce offspring at Columbus but that is not the main reason he left. Also once the elephants all move to Elephant Trek the Elephant Reserve (the zoos current habitat) will be renovated as a bigger space for Cincinnati's Masai Giraffe herd not elephants.
Mai Thai
Well-Known Member
Over the last couple months I have been emailing zoos throughout the country to ask about the breeding status of their elephants. After zoos confirming the following elephant are infertile. They are:
1.0 Groucho (Wild × Wild) 1970-00-00 (Denver Zoo)
1.0 Sneezy (Wild × Wild) 1971-00-00 (Tulsa Zoo)
0.1 Maharani (Bandara × Kamala) 1990-07-14 (Smithsonian National Zoo)
0.1 Kirina (Indy × Romani) 1995-06-20
Also I reached out to an old Ringling Brothers Circus Elephant Trainer who still keeps up with the herd and he informed me that 0.1 Shirley (Vance × Mala) 1995-02-19 passed away I am not sure when though. He unfortunately said that he did not know the four bulls that are currently at White Oak.
1.0 Groucho (Wild × Wild) 1970-00-00 (Denver Zoo)
1.0 Sneezy (Wild × Wild) 1971-00-00 (Tulsa Zoo)
0.1 Maharani (Bandara × Kamala) 1990-07-14 (Smithsonian National Zoo)
0.1 Kirina (Indy × Romani) 1995-06-20
Also I reached out to an old Ringling Brothers Circus Elephant Trainer who still keeps up with the herd and he informed me that 0.1 Shirley (Vance × Mala) 1995-02-19 passed away I am not sure when though. He unfortunately said that he did not know the four bulls that are currently at White Oak.
Corangurilla
Well-Known Member
That's a relief.
That’s interesting re. Groucho and Sneezy since both sired calves about a decade ago. I was under the impression that Tulsa would bring in some cows to breed with Sneezy after their new habitat is built. And yeah, it’s been known that Kirina has some reproductive issues for a while and it makes sense that Maharani is infertile at this point.
Polar bear fan
Well-Known Member
I’m a little shocked that both bulls are no longer fertile, hopefully there’s a loophole there as they are both very valuable. As for Shirley, it’s certainly more than a possibility that she died giving birth to her most recent calf in 2016, which would align with the lack of information we have on either of them…
Mai Thai
Well-Known Member
Do you know if the calf survived?
Polar bear fan
Well-Known Member
As far as I can tell (and believe me, I looked into it), no information regarding the last 5 or so confirmed pregnancies at Ringling has been released. I’m sorry, I don’t know what became of the calf. Considering Shirley has died and all of the younger animals were transferred I would assume it did not, otherwise it would make sense to transfer the orphaned 5 year old calf with it’s aunts and sisters to White Oak.
Mai Thai
Well-Known Member
That's what I figured as after reaching out to White Oak they said they currently have the youngest of the former Ringling elephants.