Perth Zoo New exotic mamal species for Perth Zoo? (Speculation)

[steveroberts]

@tetrapod

Wonder if Perth Zoo would look into holding some other exotic mammal species even for a short term amount of time until they get their new masterplan renovations underway.

With one Sumatran Tiger currently as far as I last heard the space amongst the four enclosures in the Big Cat complex could house say a Sri Lankan Leopard even if just on a temporary basis. Just a thought of a short term idea.

 

[tetrapod]

@tetrapod

Wonder if Perth Zoo would look into holding some other exotic mammal species even for a short term amount of time until they get their new masterplan renovations underway.

With one Sumatran Tiger currently as far as I last heard the space amongst the four enclosures in the Big Cat complex could house say a Sri Lankan Leopard even if just on a temporary basis. Just a thought of a short term idea.

I'd say probably not, as PZ are heavily committed to Indonesian species - Sumatran orangs, Javan gibbons, Komodo dragons and Sumatran tigers being the focal species. Would be nice if they could extend the range of species, though. Maybe a focus on the plight of SE Asian turtles and songbirds/parrots would be a good start.

 

[Zoofan15]

@tetrapod

Wonder if Perth Zoo would look into holding some other exotic mammal species even for a short term amount of time until they get their new masterplan renovations underway.

With one Sumatran Tiger currently as far as I last heard the space amongst the four enclosures in the Big Cat complex could house say a Sri Lankan Leopard even if just on a temporary basis. Just a thought of a short term idea.

I can say with almost certainty they won’t. Renovations are a stressful time - especially for felids and many zoos like Auckland allowed their tigers etc. to dwindle ahead of renovations/construction within that area.

Perth Zoo are planning to have their Sumatran tiger rotate with Malayan sun bear among other species, so when their sun bear pair pass on that would be a good opportunity to reassess alternatives.

 

[steveroberts]

@tetrapod @Zoofan15

Yeah very true

On that note perhaps some SE Asian birds which obviously would need to be sourced from private owners and breeders in Australia, but imagine keeping a few of the species in one of those mentioned enclosures, yes glass fronted is normally not the way to view birds, but as far as can remember the tops of those exhibits are enclosed with mesh and they're each several hundred square metres so decent size albeit temporary. I don't think PZ will do it unfortunately just keen to hear your personal verdicts about? (I mean those four enclosures aren't amalgamated into one big enclosure yet so Jaya if I remember his name correct the Tiger only uses one at a time anyway currently).

RE: Asian Turtles - yes there are an amazing group of charismatic species (and many are endangered, have always wanted to see among others the Asian Forest Tortoise) both turtles and tortoises. Am sort of surprised PZ hasn't opted for swapping their Red-eared Sliders for say Crocodylus Park's Malayan Box Turtles as they keep the RE Sliders in the former Otter exhibit, but obviously a Nth American species (lol normally encourage as many species from the Americas as possible at each zoo because forever dwindling in Australia, but just with the SE Asian theme).

 

[tetrapod]

@tetrapod @Zoofan15

On that note perhaps some SE Asian birds which obviously would need to be sourced from private owners and breeders in Australia, but imagine keeping a few of the species in one of those mentioned enclosures, yes glass fronted is normally not the way to view birds, but as far as can remember the tops of those exhibits are enclosed with mesh and they're each several hundred square metres so decent size albeit temporary.

I wasn't specifically thinking about converting the tiger complex into a bird aviary! More just a general thought that if PZ wanted to increase the range of Indonesian species that there are options. So far as the tiger exhibits there are few potentials. Sun bear would work, but they already have their own exhibits. Primates could work, but unfortunately PZ has done too good a job at phasing out SE Asian species beyond orangs and gibbons. However I would imagine that the zoo has put too many resources into making it a big cat breeding complex for them to contemplate converting it for another species.

 

[steveroberts]

@tetrapod

Oh I knew you didnt mean those enclosures specifically I just thought as far as already built exhibits in that area of the zoo they are the ones currently still standing that have one occupant between four enclosures currently, so just thought maybe as a 'think-outside-the-box' sort of idea (I know PZ wont do it though for reasons like you mentioned, have thought too that SE Asian primates would of made excellent residents in some of those exhibits too).

Just hypothetically if PZ has secured a one year loan with the Francois Langurs Taronga recently exported (like what they did with the Chimps Kike, Monty and Sandra and trio mid 98-mid 99 before they went to Japan), and set up some climbing ropes in the easternmost of the Tiger enclosures for example. Think would of been a good short term idea.

 

[tetrapod]

There is some height in the exhibit, but it would better suit a macaque species.

 

[steveroberts]

There is some height in the exhibit, but it would better suit a macaque species.

Yeah the Sulawesi Crested Macs or the Tonkeans Macs would have done well in that exhibit methinks..but obviously the large felid theme it has maintained for its 38+ years of existence now, save of course the era when first Hunting Dogs, then Sean the Sun Bear and then back to the last two Hunting Dogs had time living in it that exhibit circa between '99 and early '05.

@Simon Hampel @Chlidonias - Thanks guys, this is a good thread to have, was in the back of my mind that my discussion was hypothetical and not news related.

 

[steveroberts]

Following on from (Felids in Australasian Zoos – News, History and Discussion)

Really think Perth Zoo would be an excellent candidate for a breeding pair of Clouded Leopards. While their Tiger complex is due for an upgrade, this is a plan for the near future..but have not seen any recent dates for when deconstruction of the current complex (standing since 1984) will be underway. There are four, originally separate inner exhibits (not to mention four outer ones too) and while it seems that access gates have been set up which give their currently one Sumatran Tiger Jays access to more than one exhibit at once which is great as the exhibit sizes individually are a bit spatially out of date for the largest felid species..think the two centre most ones would be ideal for perhaps 1.1 Clouded Leopards (or the two south most exhibits which would be referred to as east most from the map layout of the zoo). Climbing frames and additional trees which weather well with being replanted/transplanted after having grown a bit would be the ideal thing given Clouded Leoparda tree living lifestyle. I don't think it's going to happen unfortunately..it's expensive..complicated (ie import planning etc etc) and feels like the zoo's belief that they have met their SE Asian species 'quota' for their master plan. But if had been in a planning/collection management capacity at PZ in the last three or four years would of strongly suggested it to the directors and other managers of the zoo. Just wanted to share but won't be shocked to hear feedback about why it is a 'pie in the sky' concept.

 

[Zoofan15]

Following on from (Felids in Australasian Zoos – News, History and Discussion)

Really think Perth Zoo would be an excellent candidate for a breeding pair of Clouded Leopards. While their Tiger complex is due for an upgrade, this is a plan for the near future..but have not seen any recent dates for when deconstruction of the current complex (standing since 1984) will be underway. There are four, originally separate inner exhibits (not to mention four outer ones too) and while it seems that access gates have been set up which give their currently one Sumatran Tiger Jays access to more than one exhibit at once which is great as the exhibit sizes individually are a bit spatially out of date for the largest felid species..think the two centre most ones would be ideal for perhaps 1.1 Clouded Leopards (or the two south most exhibits which would be referred to as east most from the map layout of the zoo). Climbing frames and additional trees which weather well with being replanted/transplanted after having grown a bit would be the ideal thing given Clouded Leoparda tree living lifestyle. I don't think it's going to happen unfortunately..it's expensive..complicated (ie import planning etc etc) and feels like the zoo's belief that they have met their SE Asian species 'quota' for their master plan. But if had been in a planning/collection management capacity at PZ in the last three or four years would of strongly suggested it to the directors and other managers of the zoo. Just wanted to share but won't be shocked to hear feedback about why it is a 'pie in the sky' concept.

I’d love to see Clouded leopard housed at Perth Zoo. It’s likely this speices will grow in numbers throughout the region with the WCCC holding two pairs and at least one other facility (Hamilton) wanting to acquire them. They’re perfect for small, city zoos.

If Perth Zoo are wanting to breed this species, I wouldn’t advise housing them near apex predators such as tigers. Off display housing for the breeding pair; with an on display exhibit to habituate the cubs to public display would be preferable. They value privacy above all things.

 

[Zorro]

I’d love to see Clouded leopard housed at Perth Zoo. It’s likely this speices will grow in numbers throughout the region with the WCCC holding two pairs and at least one other facility (Hamilton) wanting to acquire them. They’re perfect for small, city zoos.

If Perth Zoo are wanting to breed this species, I wouldn’t advise housing them near apex predators such as tigers. Off display housing for the breeding pair; with an on display exhibit to habituate the cubs to public display would be preferable. They value privacy above all things.

I believe Clouded Leopards would be ideal in some Australian collections if given the right type of enclosures. They are a stunning species and well suited to the warmer climate we have here, Since they are somewhat shy having sleeping dens and breeding den/pens away from the public and perhaps sound proof would be a bonus!

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe Clouded Leopards would be ideal in some Australian collections if given the right type of enclosures. They are a stunning species and well suited to the warmer climate we have here, Since they are somewhat shy having sleeping dens and breeding den/pens away from the public and perhaps sound proof would be a bonus!

Agreed. With regards to breeding, their requirements for privacy are similar to that of Temminck’s golden cat and Fishing cat, both of which show a marked improvement in breeding when held off display. With this in mind, I expect the WCCC will have success in breeding them.

I appreciate many zoos have a reluctance to house a species off display, but they’re comparatively inexpensive to maintain compared to large carnivores and cubs would be a drawcard if they were to breed.

 

[Zorro]

Agreed. With regards to breeding, their requirements for privacy are similar to that of Temminck’s golden cat and Fishing cat, both of which show a marked improvement in breeding when held off display. With this in mind, I expect the WCCC will have success in breeding them.

I appreciate many zoos have a reluctance to house a species off display, but they’re comparatively inexpensive to maintain compared to large carnivores and cubs would be a drawcard if they were to breed.

I believe if given enough display area and another off exhibit area perhaps they can do both.
I would hope that the WCCC could at least try to breed both females since they are not very common here with a look to boost the number for the region!

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe if given enough display area and another off exhibit area perhaps they can do both.
I would hope that the WCCC could at least try to breed both females since they are not very common here with a look to boost the number for the region!

I suppose ultimately it will come down to availability (what the US can supply) and what resources Perth are willing to invest. Ideally they’d import 2.2 and build off display and on display exhibits; but at the opposite end of the scale, they could receive a non breeding sibling pair if/when the WCCC breeds this species. The same for Hamilton Zoo, who wish to acquire them.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15 @Zorro

Totally agree with you guys what you say about the needs for breeding and adequate private space (ideally one way glass and not too much sound travel from the other side where visitors are, that sort of thing). Funnily enough was thinking of Temminick's Golden Cats as a second option to Clouded Leoparda but inevitably nominated CL having a personal favouritism for them as small felids go (Golden Cats and some other species very close second). It's just with the phase out of them (Golden Cats) from our region a decade ago unfortunately saw them as being gone from our region for an indefinite amount of time, but with WCCC brilliant importation of 2.2 Clouded Leopards only recently in two separate imports revitalised my personal hope in the potential for them in our region (like you said Zorro our hotter climate makes them a good candidate, a SE Asian species, Tetrapod pointed out earlier my previous suggestion of Sri Lankan Leopards would probably be a no-go with Perth Zoo due to them being from South Asia not SE Asia like they focus on..though glad Red Pandas have been given a continuation tick of approval by PZ despite being temperate Himalayan and coniferous southern China based species).
(Sorry criminally long paragraph)

The thing with the outer exhibits of that complex at Perth Zoo is while it offers individuals more privacy I suspect like you said Zoofan that the proximity is still close to Sumatran Tigers so the scent would likely still be detected by the Clouded Leopards along with Tiger growls.

But really love in general what you guys say about the potential for Clouded Leopards and hopeful successful ongoing breeding in our region in general. So pleased to hear Hamilton is wanting to come on board with keeping them. They've made some exciting and impress decisions Hamilton have with some less common species over the years (and some well with a lot of the more popular ones it seems).

Just to tick off this post with a Perth Zoo related note again for thread specifics. On the scent detection mention you brought up Zoofan about one species not being comfortable to mate and birth if close enough to sense a potentially dangerous other species: Tetrapod mentioned that when the Numbats were located at their old exhibit in the '80s very close to the old Maned Wolf exhibits (can see the proximity of the two on the 1987 PZ map in the gallery forum), that some difficulty in breeding the Numbats at the time was thought perhaps was due to the Numbats detecting the scent of the Maned Wolves close-by.
(and of course too I remember you guys mentioned why Cheetah should not be housed in close proximity to Lions etc if breeding is intended).

 

[austrlain zoo gower]

If Melbourne are importing a bunch of Malyan Tapir(speculation) i dont see why Perth shouldn’t include them in there Indonesian species precinct, as they would be great in zoo

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 @Zorro

Totally agree with you guys what you say about the needs for breeding and adequate private space (ideally one way glass and not too much sound travel from the other side where visitors are, that sort of thing). Funnily enough was thinking of Temminick's Golden Cats as a second option to Clouded Leoparda but inevitably nominated CL having a personal favouritism for them as small felids go (Golden Cats and some other species very close second). It's just with the phase out of them (Golden Cats) from our region a decade ago unfortunately saw them as being gone from our region for an indefinite amount of time, but with WCCC brilliant importation of 2.2 Clouded Leopards only recently in two separate imports revitalised my personal hope in the potential for them in our region (like you said Zorro our hotter climate makes them a good candidate, a SE Asian species, Tetrapod pointed out earlier my previous suggestion of Sri Lankan Leopards would probably be a no-go with Perth Zoo due to them being from South Asia not SE Asia like they focus on..though glad Red Pandas have been given a continuation tick of approval by PZ despite being temperate Himalayan and coniferous southern China based species).
(Sorry criminally long paragraph)

The thing with the outer exhibits of that complex at Perth Zoo is while it offers individuals more privacy I suspect like you said Zoofan that the proximity is still close to Sumatran Tigers so the scent would likely still be detected by the Clouded Leopards along with Tiger growls.

But really love in general what you guys say about the potential for Clouded Leopards and hopeful successful ongoing breeding in our region in general. So pleased to hear Hamilton is wanting to come on board with keeping them. They've made some exciting and impress decisions Hamilton have with some less common species over the years (and some well with a lot of the more popular ones it seems).

Just to tick off this post with a Perth Zoo related note again for thread specifics. On the scent detection mention you brought up Zoofan about one species not being comfortable to mate and birth if close enough to sense a potentially dangerous other species: Tetrapod mentioned that when the Numbats were located at their old exhibit in the '80s very close to the old Maned Wolf exhibits (can see the proximity of the two on the 1987 PZ map in the gallery forum), that some difficulty in breeding the Numbats at the time was thought perhaps was due to the Numbats detecting the scent of the Maned Wolves close-by.
(and of course too I remember you guys mentioned why Cheetah should not be housed in close proximity to Lions etc if breeding is intended).

I’d love to see Temminck’s golden cat come to Perth (return to the region), but I agree Clouded leopard are more likely. Aside from appearing to be a new focus species of the region, they’re held across several North American facilities versus Temminck’s golden cat, which has been phased out of North American zoos and has almost disappeared from European zoos.

We can’t fully discount Sri Lankan leopard. Perth Zoo were apparently open to acquiring Indian rhinoceros - so aren’t fully dismissive of South Asian species. There’s only so many South East Asia species available within the region and average visitor thinks white tigers live in the snow and Blackbuck are native to Africa, so I doubt they’d deny themselves leopards if they thought they’d bring in the crowds.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15

Agree with you friend on all of the above.
Know this is a Perth Zoo thread but the overseas regions too need to do something about the vanishing of Temminick's Golden Cats. For example, with Sumatran Rhinos, can accept as ex-situ conservation was a botched project with the noble exception of Cincinnati Zoo (though other zoos tried their best am sure, Port Lympe got lucky ever having a pair), but sorry the reason I mention Sumatran Rhinos is having read the story of their zoo conservation attempts can understand why they are only kept in sanctuaries near their natural homes now. But Golden Cats vanishing from all regions of zoos would be a crying shame.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15

Agree with you friend on all of the above.
Know this is a Perth Zoo thread but the overseas regions too need to do something about the vanishing of Temminick's Golden Cats. For example, with Sumatran Rhinos, can accept as ex-situ conservation was a botched project with the noble exception of Cincinnati Zoo (though other zoos tried their best am sure, Port Lympe got lucky ever having a pair), but sorry the reason I mention Sumatran Rhinos is having read the story of their zoo conservation attempts can understand why they are only kept in sanctuaries near their natural homes now. But Golden Cats vanishing from all regions of zoos would be a crying shame.

Temminck’s golden cat are Near Threatened, but you’re correct as their population is decreasing nonetheless. One the biggest failings of has been facilities have unrealistic expectations of being able to breed them without providing the off display exhibits to enable this.

There’s comparatively little literature on their husbandry, but Melbourne Zoo (which had unparalleled success in breeding), detailed the use of off display exhibits in a journal article concerning breeding. Within Australasia, only Auckland Zoo followed these guidelines and subsequently were the only other facility to succeed in breeding them - producing four litters between two pairs.

 

[Grant Rhino]

Really interesting thread, and I'm glad that talk has gravitated towards different feline species. Here are my two cents:

Clouded Leopards: A perfect fit for all the reasons various people have mentioned throughout the thread, but acknowledging the challenges they pose - especially if they are looking to breed them.

Snow Leopards: I will throw snow leopards into the ring! I realise that the climate isn't ideal and that they are not a South-East Asian species, but in this day and age climate control to make an exhibit cooler isn't that difficult for a zoo like Perth. If they really were interested then it would be possible.

The zoo already displays red panda and has apparently expressed interest in Indian rhinos. To my mind, any large, govt funded zoo in Australia that displays red pandas should really be able to display snow leopards - in fact I'd go as far as to say that snow leopards and red pandas pretty much make a small Himalayan precinct - especially if you throw in a few suitable birds, or get some Himalayn Tahr, Langurs or Macaques. If they don't want to do this, then that's fine - but considering how high profile and how endangered snow leopards are, I think that they really should be considered - especially since Melbourne have a proven breeding pair! Surely Perth could take the offspring if they breed again?

"Sri Lankan Leopards": Sri Lankan leopards are not even a species of animal! They are a Subspecies of Leopard. I'm amazed at how many people on the Australian section of Zoochat are so obsessed with them! Never mind the fact that they also don't fit in with the South-East Asian theme either...

I honestly can't see why any zoo would display a sub-species of an animal found throughout many parts of Africa and Asia instead of an endangered and high profile species such as the snow leopard. To put this into perspective, having been to Sri Lanka, I've seen leopards in the wild every single time I've been to Yala National Park - in fact I once saw 7 individuals there in a single day! I would trade every one of those sightings for one sighting of a wild snow leopard!

No issue with leopards (I actually love leopards), but pound for pound surely snow leopards (being more endangered and more high profile) give more bang for buck!

Golden Cats: Why would any zoo with the space and resources of Perth display smaller feline species when they could display larger ones instead? To the general public, golden cats aren't really that different from larger domestic cats. People would much prefer to see leopards, snow leopards or clouded leopards.