How is "roadside zoo" defined?

2, by that definition there's as much a clique of the shoddy zoos that shunt animals around illegally and swap animals back and forth as they get in trouble. It really goes both ways.
Good point.
Also I'm curious, why the hate for the AZA? Have you had a bad experience working in an accredited facility or something?
Oh, give me a break. I don't hate the AZA. I hate the clannishness and unwavering defense over AZA facilities; especially the view that a non AZA zoo is inherently a roadside zoo, even when DWA gets a pass. It is cliquish.
 
Good point.

Oh, give me a break. I don't hate the AZA. I hate the clannishness and unwavering defense over AZA facilities; especially the view that a non AZA zoo is inherently a roadside zoo, even when DWA gets a pass. It is cliquish.

You have yet to provide a shred of truth to back up your beliefs.
 
You have yet to provide a shred of truth to back up your beliefs.

You want proof that... AZA supporters and professionals view non accredited facilities as "roadside zoos"?

I still haven't been given any proof that Wildlife World Zoo is a "roadside zoo", and it has been called that outside of this thread.
 
What are some examples of other AZA places with shady animal dealings?
Offhand, SDZ and the fiji iguana controversy (=> Molt & Crutchfield). I recall an American zoo getting into trouble due to some Giant Panda diplomacy shenanigans in the 1980s/1990s? Several cases of surplus males of various species from AZA zoos ending up in roadside zoos / game farms, according to some investigative journalists.
 
You want proof that... AZA supporters and professionals view non accredited facilities as "roadside zoos"?

I still haven't been given any proof that Wildlife World Zoo is a "roadside zoo", and it has been called that outside of this thread.

That the AZA is "clannishness" or "cliquish".

Try asking someone that has called it that, then. It was mentioned on the first page that they've trafficked animals, which you can find online, along with selling animals to hunting ranches. They have close connections to some of the worst of the worst places, as well, like Monterey Zoo. They get USDA citations basically every year for problems with exhibits, along with not providing adequate vet care and other basics. There are numerous problems with the facility.
 
You want proof that... AZA supporters and professionals view non accredited facilities as "roadside zoos"?

I still haven't been given any proof that Wildlife World Zoo is a "roadside zoo", and it has been called that outside of this thread.

It seems from this thread that you just want to hear that DWA and Wildlife World Zoo are not roadside zoos to back up your own opinion (and while you are at it throw some unfounded claims at AZA as an institution, which is a different entity from individuals working for an AZA facility.). That is not how a forum works.
 
cli·quish /ˈklēkiSH/ adjective (of a group or place) tending to form or hold exclusive groups and so not welcoming to outsiders. "a notoriously cliquish political club"

Word by word.

Or would you prefer I back it up with examples of how the AZA isn't inclusive or upholding of non AZA zoos?
Honestly, I think you're just going to have to accept that you don't know what a clique is and you don't know what accreditation means. The two words do not mean the same thing...
 
That the AZA is "clannishness" or "cliquish".

Try asking someone that has called it that, then. It was mentioned on the first page that they've trafficked animals, which you can find online, along with selling animals to hunting ranches. They have close connections to some of the worst of the worst places, as well, like Monterey Zoo. They get USDA citations basically every year for problems with exhibits, along with not providing adequate vet care and other basics. There are numerous problems with the facility.

Many of those animals were "trafficked" from AZA facilities, if that site is to be believed.

It seems from this thread that you just want to hear that DWA and Wildlife World Zoo are not roadside zoos to back up your own opinion (and while you are at it throw some unfounded claims at AZA as an institution, which is a different entity from individuals working for an AZA facility.). That is not how a forum works.

Nope! I just want a consistent definition of "roadside zoo" that doesn't shift the goalposts or work exclusively in AZA's favor. Is that too much to ask?
 
Nope! I just want a consistent definition of "roadside zoo" that doesn't shift the goalposts or work exclusively in AZA's favor. Is that too much to ask?
I seem to remember you being given definitions of what people consider a "roadside zoo" to be on the first page of this thread? There is no "it means this and only this" - it's not like "give a definition of oxygen". Different people will have varying views on what constitutes a "roadside zoo".
 
I seem to remember you being given definitions of what people consider a "roadside zoo" to be on the first page of this thread? There is no "it means this and only this" - it's not like "give a definition of oxygen". Different people will have varying views on what constitutes a "roadside zoo".
So it's inconsistently defined.
Would you prefer "cliquish"? Because that is word for word definition of the AZA.
Okay? Accreditation is the word I used ...

I really get the feeling you work at a roadside zoo.
Well those were your words, not mine.

And no, I don't work at a roadside zoo.
 
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Oh, give me a break. I don't hate the AZA. I hate the clannishness and unwavering defense over AZA facilities; especially the view that a non AZA zoo is inherently a roadside zoo, even when DWA gets a pass. It is cliquish.

At least the AZA facilities are typically very easy to defend in terms of welfare, unlike a good number of non-AZA. Also for many of us non-AZAs vary wildly in quality, hence definitions are hard to set. There are a few unaccredited places that I will defend as good places, and others that are terrible.
Additionally you didn't answer my second question.

It says here "association" is synonymous with "clique". :D
Synonyms of association | Thesaurus.com

As a weaker synonym, yes - but again many of those words listed as synonyms don't exactly have all the same meaning either.

So it's inconsistently defined.

Yes - because unaccredited facilities vary widely in quality, as has been told to you from the start. Besides everyone having a different opinion anyways.

And no, I don't work at a roadside zoo.

Do you work at a zoo at all? Or in the past? Also it was quite relevant as it helps us understand your point of view.
 
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Very well, then let's try this. Again, keeping in mind that there is no set definition, this is just mine.

A roadside zoo is an unaccredited, privately-owned, for-profit facility that exhibits non-domestic animals and has demonstrably poor welfare (in the US often determined by frequent USDA citations) and/or at least half of their enclosures substandard for the species housed in them.

I find the unaccredited/private part to be important, as a lack of oversight is a major factor of roadsides and why they are able to be so poor quality. Not every "bad" zoo meets this definition, just as not every "good" facility is accredited.

I think criticism about AZA's accreditation process is not entirely justified. Yes, there are lots of questions in the application which do not directly relate to animal care. It's possible that a facility could satisfy those requirements and still bomb the rest. The other sections have their importance, too - they are meant to ensure that the facility is run in a safe, transparent, economically sustainable manner in compliance with local non-animal laws and regulations. It does a zoo very little good to have good animal care but always be teetering on the edge of collapse, or have chaotic leadership fighting and turnover jeopardizing operations.
 
Very well, then let's try this. Again, keeping in mind that there is no set definition, this is just mine.

A roadside zoo is an unaccredited, privately-owned, for-profit facility that exhibits non-domestic animals and has demonstrably poor welfare (in the US often determined by frequent USDA citations) and/or at least half of their enclosures substandard for the species housed in them.

I find the unaccredited/private part to be important, as a lack of oversight is a major factor of roadsides and why they are able to be so poor quality. Not every "bad" zoo meets this definition, just as not every "good" facility is accredited.

I think criticism about AZA's accreditation process is not entirely justified. Yes, there are lots of questions in the application which do not directly relate to animal care. It's possible that a facility could satisfy those requirements and still bomb the rest. The other sections have their importance, too - they are meant to ensure that the facility is run in a safe, transparent, economically sustainable manner in compliance with local non-animal laws and regulations. It does a zoo very little good to have good animal care but always be teetering on the edge of collapse, or have chaotic leadership fighting and turnover jeopardizing operations.

I think a "roadside zoo" could very simply be determined based on its conservation or rehabilitation value. That should be something we can all agree on.

Do zoos like Columbus, Pittsburgh, Honolulu, etc become "roadside zoos" when they lose AZA status? Again, this isn't a criticism of AZA itself. I've communicated back and forth with their Maryland office over the years with questions and inqueries; they're fine folks.
 
I think a "roadside zoo" could very simply be determined based on its conservation or rehabilitation value. That should be something we can all agree on.
Except you're ignoring every definition which has been given to you in the thread.

Do zoos like Columbus, Pittsburgh, Honolulu, etc become "roadside zoos" when they lose AZA status?
No. Again, you are ignoring every definition which has been given to you in the thread. It almost seems deliberate...
 
Except you're ignoring every definition which has been given to you in the thread.


No. Again, you are ignoring every definition which has been given to you in the thread. It almost seems deliberate...

YOU are the one who said "There is no 'it means this and only this'." All that does is make it seem like a bunk term.
If Columbus Zoo isn't a "roadside zoo" for doing essentially the same thing Wildlife World is villified for, then where is the consistency? If there is no consistency, then why not throw away the term "roadside zoo" altogether?
 
If Columbus Zoo isn't a "roadside zoo" for doing essentially the same thing Wildlife World is villified for, then where is the consistency? If there is no consistency, then why not throw away the term "roadside zoo" altogether?
What makes you say Columbus does/did "essentially the same thing Wildlife World is villified for"?
 
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