From my visit to Werribee...

[Jambo]

That’s great news that Melbourne Zoo are reinstating Eastern bongo. The reasons for phasing them out at the time were nonsensical imo and they’ll be a welcome addition to the zoo - nicely complimenting the Pygmy hippopotamus and Western lowland gorilla.

Wonderful news actually. Melbourne lost their Bongos simply due to an unprecedented note of bad luck (due to the death of their breeding female), so it's good to see they're still dedicated to them going forward. They'll have to come from overseas as the current population is not enough to sustain a new population at MZ.

 

[Swanson02]

You should assume that all zoos' management are monitoring threads about their respective zoos.

To be honest, that is a bit drastic, I hardly believe ZoosVic is searching through these forums they make too many dumb decisions for that to be true .

Keepers also aren't the greatest resource sometimes, for example, I caught out a Mandrill keeper at Adelaide who believed Melbourne were receiving Mandrills too. Many keepers are just interested in caring for the individual animals and species at their own zoo and outside of their job couldn't care less about regional breeding programs and specific animal movements like we do. An elephant keeper at Australia zoo I talked to couldn't name every elephant in the region off the top of his head, something I, @Zoofan15 or @Jambo could easily do.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

I’m thinking there could be crossed wires re. Malayan tapir versus Brazilian tapir - the latter being supported by the region, with multiple zoos interested in importing them.

Even then it’s hard to imagine Zoos Victoria dedicating multiple exhibits (they couldn’t all live communally) to a single species as the information others have received from them is that multiple species will be accommodated in this area.

Such a facility would be better implemented at Werribee imo - but would be of great support to the regional breeding programme (tapir breeding hub).

I thought so too, but another keeper confirmed they would not be housed at Werribee. Keep in mind it has been FLOATED, and is not planned or confirmed by any means, it is just something that has been considered. The Bongo however, he seemed confident about, and said that Melbourne are genuinely attempting to acquire some

 

[Zoofan15]

Wonderful news actually. Melbourne lost their Bongos simply due to an unprecedented note of bad luck (due to the death of their breeding female), so it's good to see they're still dedicated to them going forward. They'll have to come from overseas as the current population is not enough to sustain a new population at MZ.

New imports will be a valuable addition regionally, with all bongo otherwise descending from a single female.

It’ll be nice to see Melbourne Zoo leading by example as one of the first to take advantage of the completion of the Bovid IRA. Hopefully it’ll ignite interest from other holders/potential holders.

 

[Jambo]

To be honest, that is a bit drastic, I hardly believe ZoosVic is searching through these forums they make too many dumb decisions for that to be true .

Keepers also aren't the greatest resource sometimes, for example, I caught out a Mandrill keeper at Adelaide who believed Melbourne were receiving Mandrill too. Many keepers are just interested in caring for the individual animals and species at their own zoo and outside of their job couldn't care less about regional breeding programs and specific animal movements like we do. An elephant keeper at Australia zoo I talked to couldn't name every elephant in the region off the top of his head something I, @Zoofan15 or @Jambo could easily do.

You'd find most senior keepers are very knowledge about the regions populations. It's usually the newer or less senior ones that lack knowledge about those besides the individuals at their zoo.

 

[Swanson02]

I’m thinking there could be crossed wires re. Malayan tapir versus Brazilian tapir - the latter being supported by the region, with multiple zoos interested in importing them.

Even then it’s hard to imagine Zoos Victoria dedicating multiple exhibits (they couldn’t all live communally) to a single species as the information others have received from them is that multiple species will be accommodated in this area.

Such a facility would be better implemented at Werribee imo - but would be of great support to the regional breeding programme (tapir breeding hub).

A 10-animal Brazilian Tapir import tied in with Adelaide, DDZ, and other facilities does sound like something realistic imo. Maybe the safari driver lost it in the line of Chinese whispers which inevitably happens at a zoo.

 

[Zoofan15]

To be honest, that is a bit drastic, I hardly believe ZoosVic is searching through these forums they make too many dumb decisions for that to be true .

Keepers also aren't the greatest resource sometimes, for example, I caught out a Mandrill keeper at Adelaide who believed Melbourne were receiving Mandrills too. Many keepers are just interested in caring for the individual animals and species at their own zoo and outside of their job couldn't care less about regional breeding programs and specific animal movements like we do. An elephant keeper at Australia zoo I talked to couldn't name every elephant in the region off the top of his head, something I, @Zoofan15 or @Jambo could easily do.

I’ve had similar experiences (the latest being a report Cheetah were being phased out on a regional level - untrue).

It all comes down to the chain of information. Management make decisions which are communicated to team leaders, who communicate it to keepers. By the time this happens, the decision could be revised. Volunteers are the lowest in the chain and are even more out of the loop.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Thanks for asking those questions.

What did you ask re. the adaax?

I'm mostly interested in where the Hyena where going to go. Potentially in the back vacant Lion enclosure? It's good to see they're importing some founders from overseas as evident by the delay due to covid.

I noticed that the Addax hadn’t been on display for a long time, and asked where they were. One keeper referred me to another, who referred me to this bus driver, who answered any questions I had, which was lucky for me. He hinted that Bongo would come from overseas when I mention he Bovid IRA, that someone from the Speculation chat told me about

 

[Jambo]

I thought so too, but another keeper confirmed they would not be housed at Werribee. Keep in mind it has been FLOATED, and is not planned or confirmed by any means, it is just something that has been considered. The Bongo however, he seemed confident about, and said that Melbourne are genuinely attempting to acquire some

New imports will be a valuable addition regionally, with all bongo otherwise descending from a single female.

It’ll be nice to see Melbourne Zoo leading by example as one of the first to take advantage of the completion of the Bovid IRA. Hopefully it’ll ignite interest from other holders/potential holders.

I'd assume Melbourne may be very interested in reacquiring Bongo as a replacement for the elephants. If they can get Okapi too that would be a massive win win for Zoos Vic.

The bovid IRA has likely opened the doors for Melbourne to potentially obtain some Bongo from overseas; something they wouldn't have been able to do a few years ago.

 

[Zoofan15]

A 10-animal Brazilian Tapir import tied in with Adelaide, DDZ, and other facilities does sound like something realistic imo. Maybe the safari driver lost it in the line of Chinese whispers which inevitably happens at a zoo.

Yes - a group import arranged by Zoos Victoria is a strong possibility. They have decades of experience with organising international imports and may initially receive the tapir ahead of them being dispersed to other zoos.

 

[Jambo]

I noticed that the Addax hadn’t been on display for a long time, and asked where they were. One keeper referred me to another, who referred me to this bus driver, who answered any questions I had, which was lucky for me. He hinted that Bongo would come from overseas when I mention he Bovid IRA, that someone from the Speculation chat told me about

Yes, they have two males that are currently off display afaik. Unfortunately it seems they're going to be phased out.

 

[Zorro]

To be honest, that is a bit drastic, I hardly believe ZoosVic is searching through these forums they make too many dumb decisions for that to be true .

Keepers also aren't the greatest resource sometimes, for example, I caught out a Mandrill keeper at Adelaide who believed Melbourne were receiving Mandrills too. Many keepers are just interested in caring for the individual animals and species at their own zoo and outside of their job couldn't care less about regional breeding programs and specific animal movements like we do. An elephant keeper at Australia zoo I talked to couldn't name every elephant in the region off the top of his head, something I, @Zoofan15 or @Jambo could easily do.

I would not be at all surprised if some zoo managers do look at what is said on the forum they have in the past for sure and properly still do.

 

[Swanson02]

You'd find most senior keepers are very knowledge about the regions populations. It's usually the newer or less senior ones that lack knowledge about those besides the individuals at their zoo.

Yes I definitely agree, but at the same time, senior knowledgeable keepers aren't the majority of keepers, especially if you run into one carrying a bucket of carrots around a zoo, that's most likely a kid straight out of uni.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

The same keeper who told me about the porcupine informed me the Fennec Foxes and Aardvarks were not in the works at Werribee, so that may open up a spot at Melbourne?

 

[CGSwans]

To be honest, that is a bit drastic, I hardly believe ZoosVic is searching through these forums they make too many dumb decisions for that to be true .

Shrugs. I don't particularly care what you believe but it's very well-known to people who have been here awhile that zoo managements all over the world are aware of ZooChat and follow what is said here, and they tend to dislike "leaks" from their staff. That's fine - I think the onus is on them to ensure employees know what is expected of them, not us, and I welcome the news when we get it. It is, however, naive to think that a forum that has been live for nearly 20 years is flying under the radar of management.

 

[Jambo]

A Werribee safari truck driver is not an expert on collection planning (not to mention, will probably receive a dressing down when this thread gets read at Zoos Vic HQ - please be gentle with them, guys, we only ask because we care!). As noted above, they are a customer relations staff member first and foremost.

I guess if I wanted to turn Melbourne Zoo into a one-stop tapir breeding shop I could wedge ten of them in somewhere, but it would come at the expense of other holdings and I really, really doubt that's the strategic path they intend to go down for a not-quite-ABC species.

It would, as noted, be out of character for them, and for no really apparent reason when there's plenty of zoos in the region with recent history with tapirs - they're either held or were recently held at Adelaide, Taronga, Mogo and Darling Downs, and that's just off the top of my head. Tapirs would also be very much in Altina's wheelhouse too, and I can see how they would fit at Halls Gap and Wildlife HQ.

If there's any truth to it, it could be that Melbourne will be the importing facility and there are plans to re-establish the population with a total of 10 founders, which will be progressively farmed out to other aspiring holders.

That is why management tends to not tell keepers about new plans that would be BIG news - even to media outlets. What's replacing Melbourne's elephants will surely interest the media.

One keeper I did talk to about the fact that keepers are sometimes left in the dark by management when it comes to major news. And you can definitely see why, so I guess sometimes you just have to know what's shareable and what's not. A keeper told me about Ongard's upcoming transfer back in 2018, but I had the right mind not to share it here.

 

[Zoofan15]

I'd assume Melbourne may be very interested in reacquiring Bongo as a replacement for the elephants. If they can get Okapi too that would be a massive win win for Zoos Vic.

The bovid IRA has likely opened the doors for Melbourne to potentially obtain some Bongo from overseas; something they wouldn't have been able to do a few years ago.

Taronga’s original intention was to import a pair of Okapi. It was suggested that there would be some reluctance due to the lack of females in North American zoos and the issue of exporting a pair to a region with no contingency for re-pairing them (as can easily be done within North America).

Two holders is hardly a thriving regional breeding programme, but nonetheless - if a pair could be held at Taronga and Melbourne, that would be more beneficial than just Taronga persisting with their import. I truly hope Melbourne can pull this off if it’s an option they’d consider.

 

[CGSwans]

The same keeper who told me about the porcupine informed me the Fennec Foxes and Aardvarks were not in the works at Werribee, so that may open up a spot at Melbourne?

Aardvarks are not on the live import list and there's no IRA in place to allow them to be imported even if the list were amended. Not sure where that notion came from.

 

[Swanson02]

Yes - a group import arranged by Zoos Victoria is a strong possibility. They have decades of experience with organising international imports and may initially receive the tapir ahead of them being dispersed to other zoos.

Yeah exactly with their elephant enclosure utilized for a year or two as almost a holding facility, before the animals are moved on. It coincides well with Hari's maturity too so he could move in as soon as the last Tapir leaves. It also allows Melbourne to promote Tapirs (not an ABC species) for a couple of years before moving them on when their initial popularity inevitably dies off.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes I definitely agree, but at the same time, senior knowledgeable keepers aren't the majority of keepers, especially if you run into one carrying a bucket of carrots around a zoo, that's most likely a kid straight out of uni.

If also noted that many are highly knowledgeable about the species they care for (what temperature a reptile likes, what nutrients a lactating female needs in its diet etc). but don’t know much about what other zoos hold.

An explanation given for this on here once said they’re so busy with their work at their home zoo, they have little free time to visit other zoos. On a personal level, I’d be interested enough to expand my knowledge about the individuals held within the region; but to be fair, this isn’t something that would help them improve their day to day job performance - which is their priority.