Perth Zoo Species gained and/or lost at Perth Zoo since 1992

The Krefeld Zoo had a male Saimang named 'Ringo' who was wildborn in circa 1974. Fit's the description of Perth's male, especially if he was potentially imported by Adelaide in 1976

Different Ringo! He was wild born 1974 and arrived at Krefeld Zoo in 1975. He died there in 2012, after living at the zoo for 37 years. I was right about it being a popular name! I guess the hair of the Siamang reminded people of Ringo Starr.

Adelaide Zoo imported 1.1 from Singapore Zoo in 1976 (the female died early on). The 3.3 imported in 1978 were from Jakarta Zoo.
 
@Jambo

No worries,

I really hope you get info from Crocodylus about their Spider Monkey(s), probably will have better luck as is a current individual. Personal experience trying to ask them about deceased individuals (3 Persian Leopards) has come to nothing.

Figured this was appropriate for this thread considering the leopards came from Perth, but depending on what info you're looking for, I believe @jay's old website had some info on these cats in the news section. You're probably already all across that, but if I can find specific details or links, I'll send them through.
 
Figured this was appropriate for this thread considering the leopards came from Perth, but depending on what info you're looking for, I believe @jay's old website had some info on these cats in the news section. You're probably already all across that, but if I can find specific details or links, I'll send them through.

Here it is: News for 2001

August 2001:

Crocodylus Park, in the Northern Territory, has received two females of the endangered Persian leopard. There are only six individuals in Australia, this pair came from Perth Zoo where they were born. Perth has kept a male, who is the father of the siblings, Ishtar and Tiamat. At the moment Crocodylus Park has no plans to breed the leopards.
 
@Abbey @Zoofan15

Thanks guys, yeah have seen that before, we know Tiamat was the last to pass away sometime after mid 2007 but Crocodylus won't answer when exactly she passed or when Ishtar and Fury passed (think MLH would appreciate the info too for his Project Felins website).

It's interesting seeing Crocodylus describe it as no plans yet to have Ishtar & Tiamat possibly be mated to a male and possibly have cubs as they were already 14 years & 7 months old when they arrived at Crocodylus in August '01.

At first thought Perth never transferred or exported them somewhere else sooner because they had **inbred genes (mother Princess was father Fury's paternal aunt) but as Fury unfortunately killed Princess in July 1988 during an attempt to breed a second time assume Perth held onto them in want of retaining female PLs, thought perhaps the two of them were hand raised by keepers and were deemed unlikely to parent cubs well themselves?? may never know.

**Though considering plenty of minor levels of inbreeding knowingly occurs sometimes with endangered or threatened species/subspecies (Sumatran Tigers for example) globally don't think this was the case, but back in 2016 I did when first learning about Fury and Princess's close relatedness.
 
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It's interesting seeing Crocodylus describe it as no plans yet to have Ishtar & Tiamat possibly be mated to a male and possibly have cubs as they were already 14 years & 7 months old when they arrived at Crocodylus in August '01.

At first thought Perth never transferred or exported them somewhere else sooner because they had **inbred genes (mother Princess was father Fury's paternal aunt) but as Fury unfortunately killed Princess in July 1988 during an attempt to breed a second time assume Perth held onto them in want of retaining female PLs, thought perhaps the two of them were hand raised by keepers and were deemed unlikely to parent cubs well themselves?? may never know.

**Though considering plenty of minor levels of inbreeding knowingly occurs sometimes with endangered or threatened species/subspecies (Sumatran Tigers for example) globally don't think this was the case, but back in 2016 I did when first learning about Fury and Princess's close relatedness.

I thought that as well. They would have been post reproductive and the species long designated as phase out. Without any disrespect to Crocodylus, that’s probably the only reason they received this species.

I believe they were mother raised. The (fatal) reintroduction of the breeding pair 18 months after the cub’s birth suggests she raised them to adolescence and was then separated (which was typical for this species). Due to their lack of space, Perth likely decided not to breed again and thought retaining two females in one exhibit made for a more exciting display.
 
@tetrapod

Cites mentions 2 living Testudo kleinmanni (Egyptian tortoise) were exported from Australia to the UK in 2004, was wondering if you think that was Perth Zoo sending to Jersey Zoo.

There was also a 1998 export of 7 however that is described as bodies.

Does mention 4 Testudo graeca (Greek tortoise) were exported from Australia to Jordan in 1999, not sure if that has anything to do with Perth Zoo though.
 
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@Chlidonias (this is probably all info you already know but just wanted to mention just in case).

A pair of Pileated gibbons were exported by Australia to Germany in 1987 which I believe were the pair at Perth Zoo (the Australian paperwork was done in 1986 but Germany does not list receiving these 2 until 1987, wonder which zoo they went to?).

Australia lists exporting 4 Dark-handed/Agile gibbons to New Zealand in 1984 and also 5 others to the U.S.A in 1989, not sure how many of these were from Perth Zoo but one hundred percent certain at least some of them were though (pretty sure some of these gibbons exported to the U.S were destined for the Gibbon Conservation Centre in California, if not all of them).

1 Hoolock gibbon noted for exported to the U.S from Australia in 1993 and wondering if this was Horace 1.0 who actually died in July 1993 at Perth Zoo so perhaps he was planned to be exported but died before it happened.
 
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Australia lists exporting 4 Dark-handed/Agile gibbons to New Zealand in 1984 and also 5 others to the U.S.A in 1989, not sure how many of these were from Perth Zoo but one hundred percent certain at least some of them were though (pretty sure some of these gibbons exported to the U.S were destined for the Gibbon Conservation Centre in California, if not all of them).

The import of the Agile gibbons into New Zealand was news to me. It’s noted in the former mammals thread that four were indeed imported in 1984, with one pair later seen by @Chlidonias around 1988 at Wellington Zoo.

Four Agile gibbons were subsequently exported to the US in 1991, joining the five exported from Australia in 1989.
 
@Zoofan15

Cheers man,

There are some mentions from that late '80s early '90s era on concolor Gibbons being exported but am unsure if they were in fact Nth Wc gibbons or if zoos like Perth kept what were considered other subspecies at the time like Black-crested gibbons (which retained the concolor name..but you know that already lol).
 
As mentioned already thanks to Patrick Keegan and ZooFan the remaining 3 1.2 Hamadryas Baboons have left Perth Zoo to join the impressive troop at Melbourne Zoo in their equally impressive exhibit. The phase out is technically a good thing for the three Baboons and am wishing 1.0 Chad all the best of luck with siring infants at Melbourne. Will miss hearing about the Baboons at Perth though and wanted to note they are another phase out by Perth Zoo albeit can understand why is noted to be a positive thing for the three individuals who will be very happy indeed am sure so personally condone the move after initial shock (which shouldnt of had as PZ made it clear they were to be phased out, wasn't aware was so soon but sooner the better for Grimus, Gunni & Chad).
 
As mentioned already thanks to Patrick Keegan and ZooFan the remaining 3 1.2 Hamadryas Baboons have left Perth Zoo to join the impressive troop at Melbourne Zoo in their equally impressive exhibit. The phase out is technically a good thing for the three Baboons and am wishing 1.0 Chad all the best of luck with siring infants at Melbourne. Will miss hearing about the Baboons at Perth though and wanted to note they are another phase out by Perth Zoo albeit can understand why is noted to be a positive thing for the three individuals who will be very happy indeed am sure so personally condone the move after initial shock (which shouldnt of had as PZ made it clear they were to be phased out, wasn't aware was so soon but sooner the better for Grimus, Gunni & Chad).

I always thought Hamadryas baboon were so well suited to Perth Zoo (especially given their climate) and was surprised to hear a few years ago they were phasing them out.

With the phase out in mind, this is the best possible outcome for the baboons and I’m thrilled Chad will have an opportunity to breed. It’s a good move to transfer in an older male (18 years) as he’ll naturally pass on within the next decade, allowing a new male to be brought in while his daughters are still young.
 
I thought that as well. They would have been post reproductive and the species long designated as phase out. Without any disrespect to Crocodylus, that’s probably the only reason they received this species.

I believe they were mother raised. The (fatal) reintroduction of the breeding pair 18 months after the cub’s birth suggests she raised them to adolescence and was then separated (which was typical for this species). Due to their lack of space, Perth likely decided not to breed again and thought retaining two females in one exhibit made for a more exciting display.
Correct - the girls were mother-raised and lived together their whole lives. Space was definitely an issue as Fury time-shared the xhibit with the girls. There was also a move away from keeping Persians in the region during the 90s, although there was never a logical replacement in mind.
 
@tetrapod

Cites mentions 2 living Testudo kleinmanni (Egyptian tortoise) were exported from Australia to the UK in 2004, was wondering if you think that was Perth Zoo sending to Jersey Zoo.

There was also a 1998 export of 7 however that is described as bodies.

Does mention 4 Testudo graeca (Greek tortoise) were exported from Australia to Jordan in 1999, not sure if that has anything to do with Perth Zoo though.
Correct - there were 2 Egyptian tortoises that were sent to Jersey from Perth, but it was 1995. One was held for a small while off-display, with a second joining it for the export (possibly via Melbourne?). Both were confiscations.
Perth held a Testudo as a education animal after the unsuccessful exhibit by the cave in the Savannah. Not sure whether Spur-thigh or Greek, or possibly both.
 
@Zoofan15 Yeah hearing how the situation is really beneficial for the Grimus, Guni and Chad with joining the well established big troop living at Melbourne is a win-win for the three of them in optimal living experience for the rest of their lives given their highly social natures; and means Perth Zoo though their keepers and some of the visitors will miss them have found the best solution for their last Hamadryases as they were committed to not keeping them anymore.

With their vision for their masterplan having only limited space to work with in terms of their less than 20 hectares site limit so they had to make choices about which African Savannah animals would remain.

Obviously am personally sad a bit that Hamadryases could no long feasibly be kept at PZ but realise that it's just the reality of expanding over time that in order to better accommodate chosen species that the only way to expand living spaces over time inevitably is to use areas that were once home to other species during their time period at the zoo.

That exhibit was very good for the Baboons for a long time but now would be seen as on the smaller (especially for a government funded/operated city zoo), though still was a very decent exhibit, and they did keep their troop size smaller accordingly.

If an open range zoo opened outside of Perth would be excellent to see a troop there someday in the future possibly of a similar number end exhibit exhibit size like Melbourne or Sydney (Blacktown).

Really good point about Chad with being 18 now (times does fly, remember visiting when he was a cute little youngin') for siring babies with some of the females at Melbourne and by the time they reach sexual maturity he will be older so won't be any chance of inbreeding (also preventable measures besides castration now luckily in those rare times an elderly male can still sire) and also like you said pass on his genes to the regional Hamadryas population.

I hope Grimus and Guni have a good life there too and take on the older distinguished matriarchal positions alongside the other older females in the troop (my bad yesterday when I said about them being young obviously in Hamadryas years Grimus and Guni are 26-27 so elderly now).
 
@tetrapod

Oh right ok thanks, yeah cites obviously got the dates scrambled.

Ah yes the old temporary Tortoise pen in the Savannah. Has been near impossible trying to remember for certainty if the memory of seeing a Tortoise there when was young (first tortoise ever saw) was actually looking at the Radiated Tortoises in their exhibit or the Greek/Spur-Thighed one in the little exhibit.

If remembering right too did you mention was normally only during the summer or school holidays that short lasting exhibit was there back then with the Greek or ST Tortoise?

@Zoofan15 @tetrapod

It's great that poor unfortunate Princess was able to mother raise Ishtar and Tiamat until they were over a year old before her tragic death.

Glad Ishtar and Tiamat had each other for company even though Leopards mainly solitary, though perhaps in captivity the sister company for one another was something they actually appreciated (obviously down to the individual personalities of each with some individuals making it clear they want solitude, talking about lots of animal species with that not only Leopards of course).

Somewhat surprised that they were never attempted to be introduced to other males in the region for potential mating and hopefully cubs but like you said Tetrapod the mid 90s was the regional lose of interest timeframe so guess that explains it (at first thought it was because the two of them were a bit inbred but then realised that considering the Sumatran Tiger program has gone ahead successfully with some minor forms of inbreeding albeit distant and not much in recent times, that probably was not a factor in why Ishtar or Tiamat were never given the chehcebti become mothers themselves).

The loss of interest in Persian Leopards was a real shame (but looking at the positives glad Sri Lankan Leopards are here and breeding successfully in our region apart from the loss at DDZ recently).

The timing of PLs being selected for phase out after death or transfer and no more breeding seemed to come along right as the regional Sumatran Tigers priority focus was gaining momentum (obviously very passionate about ST program in our region..just thought the bigger more financially resourced zoos could still of had the capacity to maintain Persian Leopards, though suppose too that Snow Leopards, although a different species sort of 'filled that niche' in the minds of some of the regional collection managers and TAG contributors am guessing).
 
@Zoofan15 Yeah hearing how the situation is really beneficial for the Grimus, Guni and Chad with joining the well established big troop living at Melbourne is a win-win for the three of them in optimal living experience for the rest of their lives given their highly social natures; and means Perth Zoo though their keepers and some of the visitors will miss them have found the best solution for their last Hamadryases as they were committed to not keeping them anymore.

With their vision for their masterplan having only limited space to work with in terms of their less than 20 hectares site limit so they had to make choices about which African Savannah animals would remain.

Obviously am personally sad a bit that Hamadryases could no long feasibly be kept at PZ but realise that it's just the reality of expanding over time that in order to better accommodate chosen species that the only way to expand living spaces over time inevitably is to use areas that were once home to other species during their time period at the zoo.

That exhibit was very good for the Baboons for a long time but now would be seen as on the smaller (especially for a government funded/operated city zoo), though still was a very decent exhibit, and they did keep their troop size smaller accordingly.

If an open range zoo opened outside of Perth would be excellent to see a troop there someday in the future possibly of a similar number end exhibit exhibit size like Melbourne or Sydney (Blacktown).

Really good point about Chad with being 18 now (times does fly, remember visiting when he was a cute little youngin') for siring babies with some of the females at Melbourne and by the time they reach sexual maturity he will be older so won't be any chance of inbreeding (also preventable measures besides castration now luckily in those rare times an elderly male can still sire) and also like you said pass on his genes to the regional Hamadryas population.

I hope Grimus and Guni have a good life there too and take on the older distinguished matriarchal positions alongside the other older females in the troop (my bad yesterday when I said about them being young obviously in Hamadryas years Grimus and Guni are 26-27 so elderly now).

It's an interesting move as Chad will be breeding with up to seven young females at Melbourne - three of which are close relatives of him. Guni was born at Melbourne Zoo in 1999 and is a half sister of Huddo (mother of Juju and Hudson). She would also be related to Grace (mother of Gana).

Chad will at least have more genetically valuable matches with the daughters of Qetesh and Macey; and from a welfare perspective, this is the best outcome for Perth's troop.
 
@tetrapod

Oh right ok thanks, yeah cites obviously got the dates scrambled.

Ah yes the old temporary Tortoise pen in the Savannah. Has been near impossible trying to remember for certainty if the memory of seeing a Tortoise there when was young (first tortoise ever saw) was actually looking at the Radiated Tortoises in their exhibit or the Greek/Spur-Thighed one in the little exhibit.

If remembering right too did you mention was normally only during the summer or school holidays that short lasting exhibit was there back then with the Greek or ST Tortoise?

@Zoofan15 @tetrapod

It's great that poor unfortunate Princess was able to mother raise Ishtar and Tiamat until they were over a year old before her tragic death.

Glad Ishtar and Tiamat had each other for company even though Leopards mainly solitary, though perhaps in captivity the sister company for one another was something they actually appreciated (obviously down to the individual personalities of each with some individuals making it clear they want solitude, talking about lots of animal species with that not only Leopards of course).

Somewhat surprised that they were never attempted to be introduced to other males in the region for potential mating and hopefully cubs but like you said Tetrapod the mid 90s was the regional lose of interest timeframe so guess that explains it (at first thought it was because the two of them were a bit inbred but then realised that considering the Sumatran Tiger program has gone ahead successfully with some minor forms of inbreeding albeit distant and not much in recent times, that probably was not a factor in why Ishtar or Tiamat were never given the chehcebti become mothers themselves).

The loss of interest in Persian Leopards was a real shame (but looking at the positives glad Sri Lankan Leopards are here and breeding successfully in our region apart from the loss at DDZ recently).

The timing of PLs being selected for phase out after death or transfer and no more breeding seemed to come along right as the regional Sumatran Tigers priority focus was gaining momentum (obviously very passionate about ST program in our region..just thought the bigger more financially resourced zoos could still of had the capacity to maintain Persian Leopards, though suppose too that Snow Leopards, although a different species sort of 'filled that niche' in the minds of some of the regional collection managers and TAG contributors am guessing).

It's a shame that Persian leopard were never sustained in the region.

Ishtar and Tiamat were closely related to all the males in the region as their father was the son of Prince at Adelaide Zoo, who sired all the other Persian leopards born in the region.

Several Adelaide bred Persian leopard were exported to European zoos and breeding ceased in our region.

Interest in holding them was apparently low, with only Adelaide, Melbouren and Perth interested (and later Crocodylus). Auckland may have been interested, but already had similar felids like Jaguar and black leopard (likely hybrids).
 
@Zoofan15

Awesome thanks for the info man. Yeah that makes sense ie Persian Leopards, I obviously dont agree with how they decided to lose interest but it makes sense, 1980s and 1990s were the beginning eras of major phase-outs to focus on specific species and the 1990s saw the gradual increase in Snow Leopard holders in our region.

Was impressive that Melbourne continued to hold both Leopards (Persian and mixed subspecies heritage) and Snow Leopards for close to 30 years aswell as having other species like Jaguars and Nonah Clouded Leopards at times during also (but I am skirting around the overall point with Melbourne Zoo in general being the clear forfront in our region with felids until recently, and still doing fairly well at the moment especially when comparing it to fellow government supported city zoos with long existence histories).

Appreciate the info about Guni too. With the three female Hamadryases at Melbourne who could potentially reproduce with Chad at some point are also closely related, am not of the former stance that had for a long time about automatically discouraging a breeding happening as realise with educating from time spent reading about on here that this does occur and doesnt automatically mean the offspring will end up being individuals with poor health. Will be exciting to see how things go for the trio and there new life with the big troop at Melbourne. Am determined now to brushup on Hamadryases in our region and their connection to one another etc. Curious about Chad's sire James and his origins and lifespan.

@tetrapod I'm sorry I think might of misread some of your reply, appreciate the info again btw. Its quite astounding what animals like Tortoises, Lorises and even Langurs have ended up in Australia through smuggling and ensuing detection and confiscation, if not mistaken that is how Perth Zoo came to be specifically holders of Radiated Tortoises also? and of course the unfortunate multiple incidences where some of those poor Tortoises have been stolen from the zoo, but in some cases later located luckily if remembering correctly. Well also happening to be on the critically endangered tortoise species is a strong justification in keeping them on public display, but you have pointed out before that status in the wild does not always end up driving choices in which species are maintained or sought.
 
@Zoofan15

Awesome thanks for the info man. Yeah that makes sense ie Persian Leopards, I obviously dont agree with how they decided to lose interest but it makes sense, 1980s and 1990s were the beginning eras of major phase-outs to focus on specific species and the 1990s saw the gradual increase in Snow Leopard holders in our region.

Was impressive that Melbourne continued to hold both Leopards (Persian and mixed subspecies heritage) and Snow Leopards for close to 30 years aswell as having other species like Jaguars and Nonah Clouded Leopards at times during also (but I am skirting around the overall point with Melbourne Zoo in general being the clear forfront in our region with felids until recently, and still doing fairly well at the moment especially when comparing it to fellow government supported city zoos with long existence histories).

A contributing factor would have been the increased fertility rates of felids in zoos and an increased survival rate of the offspring born. Taronga for example celebrated the birth of their first Jaguar cub in 26 years in 1984. Good news except they were breeding readily at Auckland and Melbourne and there was little demand within the region. The cub was donated to a wildlife park.

Similarly with the Persian leopards - some returned to Europe; but once that demand was satisfied, all the holders in Australasia were fully stocked and therefore breeding ceased, with a decision made to phase out. Adelaide could have easily bred more - producing litters yearly at one stage.
 
Appreciate the info about Guni too. With the three female Hamadryases at Melbourne who could potentially reproduce with Chad at some point are also closely related, am not of the former stance that had for a long time about automatically discouraging a breeding happening as realise with educating from time spent reading about on here that this does occur and doesnt automatically mean the offspring will end up being individuals with poor health. Will be exciting to see how things go for the trio and there new life with the big troop at Melbourne. Am determined now to brushup on Hamadryases in our region and their connection to one another etc. Curious about Chad's sire James and his origins and lifespan.

No problem. Guni was born at Melbourne Zoo following a large import of baboons from Emmen in 1997. This import included several females with G names including Gina, who was transferred to Adelaide Zoo. She in turn has descendants at Auckland Zoo.

These are the seven females Chad can potentially breed with:

0.1 Juju (2015) Jabari x Huddo
0.1 Gana (2017) Unknown x Grace
0.1 Hudson (2018) Unknown x Huddo
0.1 Makali (2019) Unknown x Macey
0.1 Quilton (2020) Unknown x Qetesh
0.1 Muna (2020) Unknown x Macey
0.1 Mei (2021) Unknown x Macey

Huddo and Grace are Chad’s closest relatives; though I’d imagine they’ll allow one female per matrilineal line to reproduce:

Juju or Hudson
Gana
Makali or Muna or Mei
Quilton
 
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