They did with their creative counting method, as it includes aquarium visits and a probable overestimate of annual pass holders... Still a great result though.
Berlin Zoo Berlin Zoo News 2023
- Thread starter JurassicMax
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They did with their creative counting method, as it includes aquarium visits and a probable overestimate of annual pass holders... Still a great result though.
Interestingly, it's the only project which isn't located on the map (or already under construction). So it's impossible to know this for sure. The last official plan communicated (I remember) had the elephants move to the extension area behind the Landwehrkanal and the present elephant area house gorillas and orangs. The advantage would be to have the gorillas which are represented on the zoo label right behind the main entrance (just like the wood bisons for the Tierpark). The present situation with the elephants isn't attractive for modern standards anyway. But the elephants are not even mentioned in their current plans any longer. So either they temporarily give them up, or the gorillas indeed end up somewhere else in the zoo.
It does not state any of this explicitly. But on the other hand, it's a bit curious they also do not state or depict any apes for the building. Why would they leave this out. But if you look at the new layout, there will be a really large and a rather large outside enclosure. I can well imagine, there will be a large group of bonobos OR chimpanzees and perhaps even some orangs. I am pretty sure, however, they won't have both bonobos and chimpanzees along with orangs in there any longer.
I am still a bit surprised they give up on their polar bears. This won't be a popular decision, and they could well have raised funds for a top of the art polar bear enclosure rather than brown bears and wolves. And it does not look like the zoo to give up on anything for the Tierpark. So far, it has virtually always been the other way around. I'm not sure what their plans are for the sloth bears. I guess, for now they'll just keep them.
Apparently, the present layout of the ways, flowerbeds etc. has a listed status. So perhaps they can't have visible connection tubes cross the footpath and impact the visual appearance.
Along with the polar bears this could likely be one of the reasons these plans have not been published so far. As soon as people will find out there are no plans for either of these popular animals (and that they may lose out on at least one ape species as well), there will likely be a public reaction. The local tabloid press even complained when the modernization of the carnivore building took longer than planned and there were no big cats on display for some time. And whenever Mr. Knieriem did as little as publicly reflect having some apes at the Tierpark, he soon faced pressure and let it go...
They always counted zoo and aquarium together. Apparently, the aquarium accounts for about 1 mio visitors. So zoo alone would be around 2.6 mio visitors. As the annual passes now get scanned each time, they likely could get counted more exactly. Like many other zoos, however, they still prefer the generous estimation of 20 annual visits per pass (some visitors indeed come virtually every day, some others probably 4-5 times each year). As the Zoo is rather popular among tourists, I am not sure how many annual passes they even sell, though. I think they have less than the Tierpark.
Could it be that a new gorilla enclosure is built in the area in the down-left corner of the map? This is currently not used extensively, there is nice large trees and the bank of the lake that could be used as a nice natural barrier.
That would only imply to get rid off or reallocate meerkats, porcupines and maybe the macaques/baboon enclosure. The gorilla enclosure could then be reallocated to chimps or bonobos (I agree that they should focus only on one Pan specie) and let all the aviaries for orang-utans.
As for the bears' area, I would advocate that sloth bears are an amazing flagship specie in my opinion and with a bit of theming, a nice Indian area could be designed with dholes or macaques mixed in with the bears', leopards or striped hyaena... Space is too limited in my opinion to get polar bears back in modern husbandry standards. You could do something nice and modern, but after 10-15 years, space would be too small and "recycling" is not easy.
That would only imply to get rid off or reallocate meerkats, porcupines and maybe the macaques/baboon enclosure. The gorilla enclosure could then be reallocated to chimps or bonobos (I agree that they should focus only on one Pan specie) and let all the aviaries for orang-utans.
As for the bears' area, I would advocate that sloth bears are an amazing flagship specie in my opinion and with a bit of theming, a nice Indian area could be designed with dholes or macaques mixed in with the bears', leopards or striped hyaena... Space is too limited in my opinion to get polar bears back in modern husbandry standards. You could do something nice and modern, but after 10-15 years, space would be too small and "recycling" is not easy.
Is there possibly an english version? Just to get as much details as I can, and I'd like to avoid a translator given the inaccuraces
Tbh, the winter months don't have many vistors compeared to the rest of the year.
Berlin zoos still have a legacy of very species-rich zoos, and the general belief is that both the zoo and the Tierpark should have all ABC animals.
Well, the zoo has many lovely old trees which are both a blessing and a limitation. I imagine it would be difficult to put some agile tree-climbing animal there, for it could escape the zoo, and difficult to put an aviary-style net, because it will be in constant danger of damage by falling branches, and difficult to put a large building or a wall, for it would damage the roots. This is how I see it, the zoo direction can have a different opinion.
However I agree this is about the last unused space in the zoo, and can think of many species. Bears and wolves, and the former bear area would go to the apes. Black rhinos, kangaroos, okapis, antelope, whatever.
You can check it out on ZooTierliste, just know that other than primates the building has at least 2 species of armadillo, Prevost's squirrel and a sloth, everything else should be a primate, and if you count the nearby enclosures as expansions of the primate house then baboons and lion-tailed macaques are on the list too
Most of the information boards in the park have been removed except for a majority of the Monkeys House. Only those of the 4 great apes, owl-faced monkeys and capuchins have been changed.
Maybe they are waiting for the redesign of the building to review the collection ?
Monkeys House 2022 :
- Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla)
- Chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes)
- Bonobo (Pan paniscus)
- Sumatran orangutan (Pongo abelii)
- Guianan weeper capuchin (Cebus olivaceus)
- Owl-faced monkey (Cercopithecus hamlyni)
- Toque macaque (Macaca sinica) - former mandrill exhibit
- Capped gibbon (Hylobates pileatus)
- Siamang (Symphalangus syndactylus)
- Brown-headed spider monkey (Ateles fusciceps robustus)
- Squirrel monkey (Saimiri sciureus)
- Japanese Macaque (Macaca fuscata)
- Hanuman langur (Semnopithecus entellus)
- Cotton-top tamarin (Saguinus oedipus)
- Bearded emperor tamarin (Saguinus imperator subgrisecens)
- Black-mantled tamarin (Saguinus nigricollis)
- Goeldi's marmoset (Callimico goeldi)
- Titi monkey (Callicebus cupreus)
- White-headed marmoset (Callithrix geofroyii)
- Linnaeus's two-toed sloth (Choloepus didactylus)
- Southern three-banded armadillo (Tolypeutes matacus)
- Sumatra Prevost's squirrel (Callosciurus prevostii rafflesii)
Arround the Monkeys Rock :
- Hamadryas baboon (Papio hamadryas)
- Lion-tailed macaque (Macaca silena)
@Gavial thanks so much, I checked zootierliste but it’s so much easier looking at a direct list!
I can remember most species and when I last visited I believe they had mandrill and black howler monkeys too.
although an impressive list of species I do wonder if they will streamline and bring in a few more rarer species like the tierpark has done with its primate house!
I’d like to see a mangabey species, either drill or mandrill, a lemur such as broad nosed gentle lemur!
I can remember most species and when I last visited I believe they had mandrill and black howler monkeys too.
although an impressive list of species I do wonder if they will streamline and bring in a few more rarer species like the tierpark has done with its primate house!
I’d like to see a mangabey species, either drill or mandrill, a lemur such as broad nosed gentle lemur!
With everything considered, I have a rough idea of how they could handle things:Perhaps this makes the discussion about possible locations for the gorillas a bit easier:
Image: Zoo Berlin
- First and foremost, the elephants would have to find other homes as an elephant complex takes years of planning and building;
- The elephant yards would have to be refruibished due to the Apes' needs: the bull yard could be used for orangs and the females yard for gorillas, given the respective species' troop size and overall space needs, perhaps the moat could be filled to use as much space as possible (and the indoor housing could receive an improvement to house smaller species);
- The Ape House would have thus 2 empty sizeable enclosures which, despite possible expansion of the primate 'roster', would probably be used to improve both the Chimps and Bonobos's space;
- The Elephant complex could be built behind the Landwehrkanal as markmeier (and some early plans) suggested, the only problems could be the path (it's in stone and perhaps it has been there for quite some time, I don't know what are the historical heritage laws of Germany but in Italy that path would most likely be protected) and it's for sure the relocation of the inhabitants of that area which luckily are all herbivores so they can be mixed with other residents of the zoo or transferred to the Tierpark, although it could be necessary to lose them temporarily as only when the other plans will be executed there will be empty space:
- The greater kudu, ostich, blesbok and guineafowl could all be transferred to the Tierpark to be added to the Savannah habitat, some may even be mixed with the african hoofstock already in the Zoo;
- The two species of kangaroos could be housed in the Tierpark or transferred in a random paddock within the zoo;
- Once the warty pigs are transferred to the Rhino Pagoda and the babirusas to the Tierpark 2 empty enclosures will need new inhabitants, perhaps the Tapirs and the other critters of the Pampa habitat could be transferred here;
- The Przewalski's horses can be either phased out of the Zoo or moved to the Tierpark with the other individuals.
- With both the indian and black rhinos out of the Zoo their enclosure can be used to house the bongos.
Last week a Black-rumped agouti was born at the zoo 
.
.Wolves are back !
Five european wolves are now visible in the enclosure previously occupied by polar wolves, close to bears. As the year progresses, Brown Bears are expected to make a comeback as well.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...6510962556
Five european wolves are now visible in the enclosure previously occupied by polar wolves, close to bears. As the year progresses, Brown Bears are expected to make a comeback as well.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...6510962556
I find it fairly interesting how whilst in America native Brown and Black bears under the AZA are not permitted to be bred; only taken in as rescue animals - though in Europe I don't think any such protocol exists for any bear species. Or is there?
Haliaeetus
Well-Known Member
I don't know any protocol of this type in Europe.
I may add that native Bears are either inexistent or highly endangered in most Western, Central and Southern European countries, so such a protocol would be useless.
I don't know, if they actually plan breeding brown bears. It's possible, but I kind of doubt it. It just seems like a pragmatic choice as they don't seem to plan with polar bears any longer and brown bears are quite popular as well particularly among Berlin tourists who constitute the majority of zoo visitors.
Haliaeetus
Well-Known Member
Many European zoos keep non-breeding groups of Brown Bears (for example 2-3 individuals of the same sex), but there isn't any rule against breeding.
The return of the brown bears was officially announced here in October. Without additional information.
Wölfe und Bären erobern den Zoo
Wölfe und Bären erobern den Zoo