Why aren’t fish more popular?

[Davdhole]

I've mentioned this before but funnily enough, a lot of people I know prefer aquaria to zoos, whether they just like aquaria better or dislike zoos. I used to live in Georgia so many of the people I know can just drive to the city and see whale sharks, mantas, belugas, and now tiger sharks. I've also had to make my way through crowds in front of the cichlid tanks and even the small reef tanks. As mentioned before the large fish and exhibits with large schools of colorful fish work well at drawing crowds, especially colorful fish in a smaller exhibit. I would notice the bright orange garibaldi getting a lot of attention in Georgia's kelp forest tank compared to the "boring" rockfish and halfmoon. So it seems in Georgia fish have got the zoo beat, even with giant pandas and a large collection of gorillas, but that's speaking on a majority of people.

Me personally, the fish I'm really drawn to are large freshwater fish and pelagic fish. While other fish are interesting and I try to make a point of species I've seen, mammals, birds, and reptiles will always interest me more, even when doing nothing. Maybe it's the fact that being so close to an apex predator like a tiger just sleeping in the sunlight or a gaboon viper coiled under a heat lamp is a "cooler" experience than seeing a large reef tank mainly filled with fish I can see at an exotic pet shop. Really it's just the display that's so amazing. And this is in no way knocking anyone who enjoys these exhibits and doesn't get to see these fish often, I'm just stating why fish aren't what I'd rush to see.

 

[aardvark250]

From my perspective I grew up in a house full of tanks and fish encyclopedias, so when I was two I could already say “Pelvicachromis pulcher.” If it weren’t for my family being aquarium hobbyists I probably wouldn’t be this into fish.

It seems like as with learning foreign languages, starting in infancy is pretty important.

Good for you lol. I grew up in a family with no interest in any animals whatsoever, i don't even know why i like zoo.

 

[RatioTile]

Good for you lol. I grew up in a family with no interest in any animals whatsoever, i don't even know why i like zoo.

Aren't you from Hong Kong, home of Tung Choi Street's Goldfish Market, with a Bird Market nearby?

 

[aardvark250]

Aren't you from Hong Kong, home of Tung Choi Street's Goldfish Market, with a Bird Market nearby?

Yes I'm from hong kong, but not near the place you mentioned. In fact I have never been to the bird market.

What's your point?

 

[GaryA]

Yes I'm from hong kong, but not near the place you mentioned. In fact I have never been to the bird market.

What's your point?

I think he/she is making the point that if you lived near the bird and fish markets, it might explain why you like zoos, as you said you didn't know why you did.

 

[RatioTile]

Yes I'm from hong kong, but not near the place you mentioned. In fact I have never been to the bird market.

What's your point?

There's a plethora of places to see animals for free in Hong Kong and develop an interest in them. Between those pet markets, the free zoo, Edward Youde Aviary, and an established population of yellow-crested cockatoos, Hong Kong seems like a decently convenient place for someone to be exposed to seeing and experiencing lots of animal species. Even random restaurants have fish tanks (for good fortune).

I know I'm definitely more likely to eat at a restaurant if they have a nice fish tank on show.

 

[lintworm]

A big problem is that people grow up with a bit of a taxonomic insight into wildlife, but it is limited to mammals, birds & reptiles. Children learn to differentiate lemurs, monkeys and apes from each other while nobody teaches them what a wrasse is. So adolescents and adults have a good basic set of ID skills regarding other, mostly the bigger, animals. Once reached adulthood and finding yourself interested in zoos, starting to dig into the complex taxonomic network of fish seems too much work. Many people here do not have any clue where to start, since they were raised with a focus on big cats or the difference between a flamingo and a pelican. That's why they easily give up on collecting fish. I'm sure that the public would be more focused on individual fish species if they were taught the basic taxonomic orders as a child. We should normalise teaching the next generation about any kind of animal, not only the popular ones that everybody likes.

I was recently looking into this a bit, but couldn't really find anything myself in terms of accessible literature. What books would you recommend to get a (first) grip on fish diversity in general or on specific orders/families? There is fishbase online, but I don't find it the most easy to navigate website.

 

[CMP]

And with tanks that have more than a couple of species, what's in them can change often with deaths / new species added, etc. Every year I start by saying I'm going to keep track of fish, and it never lasts more than maybe one aquarium. I do try to at least keep track of sharks, rays as best as I can, and some other easier species, like arapaima, seahorses, cephalopods, that sort of things.

The first time I was at Shedd since I started listing, I was quite overwhelmed by Amazon rising, so in Wild Reef, I decided to follow this same logic of keeping lists of only the most 'interesting' fish groups. The problem was, I quickly found that all fish taxa were interesting to me and that there weren't any that I did not want to keep a list of. I find it quite rewarding listing fish, all species of fish I see, especially after visiting institutions like Shedd, DWA, and now CAS and MBA. What you do not list, you do not know, at least in my experience.

 

[CMP]

I was recently looking into this a bit, but couldn't really find anything myself in terms of accessible literature. What books would you recommend to get a (first) grip on fish diversity in general or on specific orders/families? There is fishbase online, but I don't find it the most easy to navigate website.

Ray-finned Fishes (Class Actinopterygii) · iNaturalist
This is the best way I've found to get a grasp on the diversity of fish, or any other animal species. It is not perfect, but the iNaturalist database is an excellent way to start, and combined with Wikipedia (What iNat's taxonomy information and framework is largely sourced from) is how I taught myself about animal taxonomy.

 

[RatioTile]

I was recently looking into this a bit, but couldn't really find anything myself in terms of accessible literature. What books would you recommend to get a (first) grip on fish diversity in general or on specific orders/families? There is fishbase online, but I don't find it the most easy to navigate website.

De Jong Marinelife's online catalog is a surprisingly handy source for marine fish IDs. Most of the commonly acquirable reef fishes are on there, as well as some less common species, so it's a good place to start. Home Page

Seriously Fish is great for learning freshwater aquarium fish, as is the catalog of Aquarium Glaser. Seriously Fish — Feeling fishy? Welcome to the website of Aquarium Glaser - Aquarium Glaser GmbH

For catfish only, there's Planet Catfish, which even ranks catfish in terms of commonness per family and genus. PlanetCatfish - The Aquarium Catfishes website

 

[birdsandbats]

It is not terribly difficult, I've done it myself. Most the work was making the species list, and with the app out now, it is just a matter of IDing the species. Yes, you might have to leave out some species you see as unidentifiable or too similar to other species held in the same aquarium, but it is doable.

I meant keep track of the species you've seen. Especially with the SheddGo app, it's easy to keep track of a full list of species in the aquarium, but forget singling out the species you personally saw.

 

[RatioTile]

I meant keep track of the species you've seen. Especially with the SheddGo app, it's easy to keep track of a full list of species in the aquarium, but forget singling out the species you personally saw.

At an aquarium or pet store, I always photograph every fish I suspect is a new lifer species for me, along with the signage (if present). Fish are in my opinion the hardest animal taxon to photograph; they’re often fast, kept in tanks with poor lighting, and glass and acrylic are often distorted. You gotta sweep your camera at the same speed the fish moves. In the end, a successful fish shot can be highly rewarding.

 

[birdsandbats]

At an aquarium or pet store, I always photograph every fish I suspect is a new lifer species for me, along with the signage (if present). Fish are in my opinion the hardest animal taxon to photograph; they’re often fast, kept in tanks with poor lighting, and glass and acrylic are often distorted. Therefore, a successful fish shot can be highly rewarding.

Yeah, and at Shedd you could never even get close to all them.

 

[Great Argus]

Ray-finned Fishes (Class Actinopterygii) · iNaturalist
This is the best way I've found to get a grasp on the diversity of fish, or any other animal species. It is not perfect, but the iNaturalist database is an excellent way to start, and combined with Wikipedia (What iNat's taxonomy information and framework is largely sourced from) is how I taught myself about animal taxonomy.

I would just like to point out that Wikipedia's fish taxonomy has long been rather mixed up and convoluted from one page to the next. It works but it certainly shouldn't be taken as accurate. For a solid taxonomy base Fishbase is by far the best I'm aware of, clunky as it can be to work with.

De Jong Marinelife's online catalog is a surprisingly handy source for marine fish IDs. Most of the commonly acquirable reef fishes are on there, as well as some less common species, so it's a good place to start. Home Page

I have mixed opinions on this suggestion. They certainly have a wide range and it will help with learning species. However not all the representative photos are the greatest for ID purposes. Some species are shown as rather small juveniles (besides those normally shown as juveniles) and there are hybrids and morphs to be aware of. The taxonomy categories aren't always fully accurate either. Species are also all listed by scientific name, which can be tricky if you're not versed in them.

Seriously Fish is great for learning freshwater aquarium fish, as is the catalog of Aquarium Glaser. Seriously Fish — Feeling fishy? Welcome to the website of Aquarium Glaser - Aquarium Glaser GmbH

Seriously Fish is definitely a good one, very handy. Not found Aquarium Glaser to be particularly helpful.


I still use a lot of book references, mostly photo field guides and aquarium species books. Works really well for me combined with a lot of digging around the internet for identifications.

 

[RatioTile]

Yeah, and at Shedd you could never even get close to all them.

It’s often a matter of luck if your target fish comes to the front. I’ve spent 3+ hours at aquariums waiting for the right moment, and I always do at least 2 laps around the aquarium to catch fish in different positions. On the second go-around I always notice fish that were no-shows on the first try; there’s a lot of great hiders.

 

[15399]

Fish are in my opinion the hardest animal taxon to photograph; they’re often fast, kept in tanks with poor lighting, and glass and acrylic are often distorted.

Being kept in water certainly doesn't help make fish easy to photograph either.

 

[CMP]

I meant keep track of the species you've seen. Especially with the SheddGo app, it's easy to keep track of a full list of species in the aquarium, but forget singling out the species you personally saw.

That is exactly what I mean. I made a full species list for Shedd, before the app came out, and then went through all of the photos I took of the species I saw, coming up with a full list of species I saw at Shedd.

Yeah, and at Shedd you could never even get close to all them.

You keep saying this, but this is something I've done myself, and I'm sure other members are perfectly capable of doing as well. It is time-consuming and requires a lot of pictures to be taken, but is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[CMP]

I would just like to point out that Wikipedia's fish taxonomy has long been rather mixed up and convoluted from one page to the next. It works but it certainly shouldn't be taken as accurate. For a solid taxonomy base Fishbase is by far the best I'm aware of, clunky as it can be to work with.

Yes, that is why I said:

It is not perfect, but the iNaturalist database is an excellent way to start,

Taken with a grain of salt, as all resources should be, IMO iNat is the easiest and most comprehensive taxonomic database. The drop-down menus make it quite easy to familiarize oneself with the general taxon divisions among fish, and you can always investigate further for some taxa that haven't been fully sorted out.

 

[birdsandbats]

Yes, that is why I said:

Taken with a grain of salt, as all resources should be, IMO iNat is the easiest and most comprehensive taxonomic database. The drop-down menus make it quite easy to familiarize oneself with the general taxon divisions among fish, and you can always investigate further for some taxa that haven't been fully sorted out.

iNaturalist follows Eschmeyer's Catalog of Fishes, so it would be the same as using that taxonomy.

 

[RatioTile]

Yes, that is why I said:

Taken with a grain of salt, as all resources should be, IMO iNat is the easiest and most comprehensive taxonomic database. The drop-down menus make it quite easy to familiarize oneself with the general taxon divisions among fish, and you can always investigate further for some taxa that haven't been fully sorted out.

For identifying a fish using iNaturalist you'd have to first know where the fish is native to in the wild to narrow down the selection. This makes it useful for native fish sections in a public aquarium, but less so for imports. That said, some of the biggest exporters of tropical reef fishes are Indonesia (esp. Bali), the Philippines, and Sri Lanka.