Perth Zoo Species gained and/or lost at Perth Zoo since 1992

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15

Yeah that's really interesting learning about outlined and the pattern with breeding periods of success over the decades, yeah Adelaide did so amazingly with Persian Leopards and Taronga had a great success with Wendy & Ali as a breeding pair hey but from what have learnt from you Auckland Zoo was the crown achiever with their Jaguars over the decades back in the day.

ie Hamadryases having left Perth - it will be interesting to see how with the ≈820-850m2 area that was their exhibit is going to be used in the expansion of living space for the Rhinos etc (≈240m2 for the outdoor daytime exhibit area that the public could see the Baboons a few meters below across the 4-5m wide moat, as understand the 800+m2 space probably sounds like an overestimate but including the area the Baboons had for their 'back of house' off-exhibit area which is about the same size as their daytime area and including the mock rock and planted surroundings aswell as the ≈45-50m2 shallow moat at the front it appears to account to a bit over 800 square meters in area. Just thought might try get an area estimate and make a post on now they have just departed PZ and if anyone ever had a want of having a rough estimate on what their general area dimensions were and what PZ has to work with in terms of their phase out being necessary too for their ongoing masterplan works for the Savannah zone.

Am interested to see with much of what was their exhibit being slightly below the ground level of the Savannah paths and other exhibits by a few meters if will be filled in and brought to the same elevation level for use by the Rhinos, Giraffes & Zebras (though perhaps like the slope the Giraffes & Zebras currently need to walk down to access the waterhole on the southern end of their exhibit perhaps when knocking down the mockrock boundaries between the former Hamadryas area and the Rhino area a natural slope occurs leading down to the moat too, am unsure).

edit: Oh and thankyou just got your last post btw (-:

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15

Yeah that's really interesting learning about outlined and the pattern with breeding periods of success over the decades, yeah Adelaide did so amazingly with Persian Leopards and Taronga had a great success with Wendy & Ali as a breeding pair hey but from what have learnt from you Auckland Zoo was the crown achiever with their Jaguars over the decades back in the day.

ie Hamadryases having left Perth - it will be interesting to see how with the ≈820-850m2 area that was their exhibit is going to be used in the expansion of living space for the Rhinos etc (≈240m2 for the outdoor daytime exhibit area that the public could see the Baboons a few meters below across the 4-5m wide moat, as understand the 800+m2 space probably sounds like an overestimate but including the area the Baboons had for their 'back of house' off-exhibit area which is about the same size as their daytime area and including the mock rock and planted surroundings aswell as the ≈45-50m2 shallow moat at the front it appears to account to a bit over 800 square meters in area. Just thought might try get an area estimate and make a post on now they have just departed PZ and if anyone ever had a want of having a rough estimate on what their general area dimensions were and what PZ has to work with in terms of their phase out being necessary too for their ongoing masterplan works for the Savannah zone.

Am interested to see with much of what was their exhibit being slightly below the ground level of the Savannah paths and other exhibits by a few meters if will be filled in and brought to the same elevation level for use by the Rhinos, Giraffes & Zebras (though perhaps like the slope the Giraffes & Zebras currently need to walk down to access the waterhole on the southern end of their exhibit perhaps when knocking down the mockrock boundaries between the former Hamadryas area and the Rhino area a natural slope occurs leading down to the moat too, am unsure).

edit: Oh and thankyou just got your last post btw (-:

Auckland Zoo was very successful in breeding Jaguar. They imported a pair from the USA in 1969 named Inca and Yari, who produced five litters of cubs. Inca sired a further three litters to his eldest daughter, Miani.

I honestly think Perth Zoo should be looking at phasing out Southern white rhinoceros. I find it hard to believe the two bachelor bulls attract anywhere near the attention the species once received - not least when the two calves were born in 2002 and 2005.

Perth need to be realistic about what they can accomodate given they’re a small city zoo. They’re already dedicated a sizeable amount of space to giraffes and could do so much with the space the rhinos will in turn be taking up.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15

Thats really interesting about Inca & Yari arriving at Auckland from the US in '69 and their impressive amount of litters.

Yes agree about Sth White Rhinos with PZ, they have had an impressive time period with Memphis now having lived there for almost 33 years..but yes in terms of space is indeed a major roadblock (yes the fanfare with the births in 2002 and 2005, I remember rejoicing in 2002 and going to the zoo specifically to see the beautiful calf and following Sabe's pregnancy with great interest, well was very invested even before with the two females arriving in late '99 and the 'mate for Memphis' drive in the years leading up to).

Its a shame PZ doesnt have a Werribee or Monarto equivalent as with parting with Permai and Putra Mas soon can imagine their reluctance to phase out their chosen Rhinoceros species for the past 30+ years unless they could secure Indian Rhinos instead which would be difficult and also same spatial issues they currently are stuck with.

Got me thinking that perhaps a logical approach may to be one of the only city zoos in the region to house a few savannah habitating African antelope species too sharing with the Giraffes & Zebras for optimal space (i.e one shared exhibit at maximum size for roaming), also sort of the belief if they incorporated the 'Oak Lawn' into their Savannah expansion they could perhaps house Vervet Monkeys or Servals again adequately.

The bovid import green light can be utilised to their advantage too if they decided to go with an antelope species or two.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15

Thats really interesting about Inca & Yari arriving at Auckland from the US in '69 and their impressive amount of litters.

Yes agree about Sth White Rhinos with PZ, they have had an impressive time period with Memphis now having lived there for almost 33 years..but yes in terms of space is indeed a major roadblock (yes the fanfare with the births in 2002 and 2005, I remember rejoicing in 2002 and going to the zoo specifically to see the beautiful calf and following Sabe's pregnancy with great interest, well was very invested even before with the two females arriving in late '99 and the 'mate for Memphis' drive in the years leading up to).

Its a shame PZ doesnt have a Werribee or Monarto equivalent as with parting with Permai and Putra Mas soon can imagine their reluctance to phase out their chosen Rhinoceros species for the past 30+ years unless they could secure Indian Rhinos instead which would be difficult and also same spatial issues they currently are stuck with.

Got me thinking that perhaps a logical approach may to be one of the only city zoos in the region to house a few savannah habitating African antelope species too sharing with the Giraffes & Zebras for optimal space (i.e one shared exhibit at maximum size for roaming), also sort of the belief if they incorporated the 'Oak Lawn' into their Savannah expansion they could perhaps house Vervet Monkeys or Servals again adequately.

The bovid import green light can be utilised to their advantage too if they decided to go with an antelope species or two.

Inca and Yari were a very successful breeding pair, with their offspring sent on to several zoos including Taronga, Adelaide and Hamilton.

Perth Zoo would greatly benefit from having an open range zoo to house their larger ungulates and breed their large carnivores. Malayan sun bear breeding apparently ceased due to a lack of space and the masterplan indicates they won’t be breeding Sumatran tiger in the future. They’re similarly holding a non breeding pride of lions, as they have done for 37 years (1986).

That’s a good idea re. antelope. Thompson’s gazelle integrate well with larger Savannah species and it’d be great to see Perth Zoo hold Eastern bongo. They’re lacking in Central African species now they’ve phased out Common chimpanzee and Mandrill.

 

[tetrapod]

Re: Radiated tortoises. Not sure about origin but zoo held them for some time pre-Savannah. Were kept in the pens that form the bottom edge of the Bushwalk near the old dog caves.
Re: Persian leopards. Suspect the regional phaseout was not only due to focus on breeding Sumatran tigers, but also concentrating on more charismatic snow leopards. In hindsight both programs haven't quite worked out that way, hence Sri Lankan leopards entering the picture.
Re: baboon exhibit. Have no idea how they will logically integrate the space with other exhibits. They won't knock down the established mock rock boulders (it's part of the overall backdrop with the vegetation), but could remove the rear barrier and join with the rhinos. To be honest the space gained is minimal. Makes the loss of the baboons even more pointless.
Re: white rhinos. PZ has already established that they will phase out whites in favour of Indians. I think the zoo is moving down an interesting (an potentially dangerous) phase clearing out the large species. Agree that space is limited for elephants, but to eliminate white rhinos at the same time is a PR risk. Indians are less social so take up even more space if you want to breed them.
Re: Antelope. An unlikely addition with the giraffe and zebra. Too many areas for the zebra to corner them and cause mayhem. If (a big if) they do import bongo in future, it will be stand alone exhibit.
A real shame that every time PZ comes up in the ZC conversation, we see yet another species lost from the collection. Still waiting to see a major new display showcasing additional/new species in recent times.

 

[Zoofan15]

Re: Radiated tortoises. Not sure about origin but zoo held them for some time pre-Savannah. Were kept in the pens that form the bottom edge of the Bushwalk near the old dog caves.
Re: Persian leopards. Suspect the regional phaseout was not only due to focus on breeding Sumatran tigers, but also concentrating on more charismatic snow leopards. In hindsight both programs haven't quite worked out that way, hence Sri Lankan leopards entering the picture.
Re: baboon exhibit. Have no idea how they will logically integrate the space with other exhibits. They won't knock down the established mock rock boulders (it's part of the overall backdrop with the vegetation), but could remove the rear barrier and join with the rhinos. To be honest the space gained is minimal. Makes the loss of the baboons even more pointless.
Re: white rhinos. PZ has already established that they will phase out whites in favour of Indians. I think the zoo is moving down an interesting (an potentially dangerous) phase clearing out the large species. Agree that space is limited for elephants, but to eliminate white rhinos at the same time is a PR risk. Indians are less social so take up even more space if you want to breed them.
Re: Antelope. An unlikely addition with the giraffe and zebra. Too many areas for the zebra to corner them and cause mayhem. If (a big if) they do import bongo in future, it will be stand alone exhibit.
A real shame that every time PZ comes up in the ZC conversation, we see yet another species lost from the collection. Still waiting to see a major new display showcasing additional/new species in recent times.

It was always my impression the Sumatran tigers were a replacement for Siberian tigers, replacing this subspecies at Wellington, Adelaide and Mogo respectively; with several other zoos phasing out generic tigers for the purebred Sumatrans. The Sumatran tiger breeding programme has for the most part thrived, with

Snow leopards were always going to be a challenge due to the Australian climate. Leopards are a better fit climate wise, but hold less appeal to with the general public. Melanistic variants of both leopards and Jaguar have always fascinated the public, but unfortunately aren’t prevalent within the Persian and Sri Lankan subspecies.

I didn’t realise it’d be confirmed that Perth Zoo are phasing out Southern white rhinoceros in favour of Indian rhinoceros - but that’s good to hear as I knew it was something they’d been considering. Due to the limited space, it may be advisable to hold a bull. This would also support the needs of the regional breeding programme as not every holder can be breeding.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15

One of those saturdays where am regretting plans confirmed during the week because want to be on here instead for the next few hours and get to read and write with you and our amigos. Yeah actually really admire Wellington and Adelaide for their housing of Siberian Tigers during the late 70s, 80s through to the early 90s (well right bang to the middle of the '90s for Adelaide, but admire Wellington for making the decision to start holding Sumatrans beginning with taking on Jambi at the very end of '92), I'm not completely sure but think Mogo may of had some generic 'Bengal' Tigers first for maybe a year or two (think maybe from '93 at the very earliest) but when Kuldur arrived found it made an article on trove, from memory a Canberra newspaper. Shame they only had him for about two years but they did receive him elderly and he had good longevity innings for the time I think. Its interesting too that from the late '70s onwards 15-19 years even before the regional Sumatran Tiger program was founded how Melbourne and Taronga were keeping them, Perth although a year and a half ahead of Adelaide joining the program (and Auckland '96 right if remembering accurately) that Perth was still holding generic Tigers the two females from Blackpool Zoo, Anitraz (albeit died in '92) and the longlived Delores who was there for 20 years. I don't have any memory if they were simply labelled as Tigers to the general public or pigeon-holed labelled as 'Bengal's but would be curious to find out, but thought considering the Siberian and Sumatran holdings had really taken off in many zoos across the 'western' world just prior it was quite late for a government big city zoo to still be keeping Tigers who didnt specifically belong to a subspecies when the late '70s through the '80s seemed to be the era of keeping Tigers specifically from particular subspecies (earlier in some cases but you know all too well with lots of zoos in Europe and North America, discounting 'roadside' zoos of course).

Sorry will reply to rest when get to have peace and quiet at home again hopefully only in a few hours lol.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15

One of those saturdays where am regretting plans confirmed during the week because want to be on here instead for the next few hours and get to read and write with you and our amigos. Yeah actually really admire Wellington and Adelaide for their housing of Siberian Tigers during the late 70s, 80s through to the early 90s (well right bang to the middle of the '90s for Adelaide, but admire Wellington for making the decision to start holding Sumatrans beginning with taking on Jambi at the very end of '92), I'm not completely sure but think Mogo may of had some generic 'Bengal' Tigers first for maybe a year or two (think maybe from '93 at the very earliest) but when Kuldur arrived found it made an article on trove, from memory a Canberra newspaper. Shame they only had him for about two years but they did receive him elderly and he had good longevity innings for the time I think. Its interesting too that from the late '70s onwards 15-19 years even before the regional Sumatran Tiger program was founded how Melbourne and Taronga were keeping them, Perth although a year and a half ahead of Adelaide joining the program (and Auckland '96 right if remembering accurately) that Perth was still holding generic Tigers the two females from Blackpool Zoo, Anitraz (albeit died in '92) and the longlived Delores who was there for 20 years. I don't have any memory if they were simply labelled as Tigers to the general public or pigeon-holed labelled as 'Bengal's but would be curious to find out, but thought considering the Siberian and Sumatran holdings had really taken off in many zoos across the 'western' world just prior it was quite late for a government big city zoo to still be keeping Tigers who didnt specifically belong to a subspecies when the late '70s through the '80s seemed to be the era of keeping Tigers specifically from particular subspecies (earlier in some cases but you know all too well with lots of zoos in Europe and North America, discounting 'roadside' zoos of course).

Sorry will reply to rest when get to have peace and quiet at home again hopefully only in a few hours lol.

Yes, there’s a few articles online concerning Kuldur’s arrival at Mogo in 1995. It’s noted he was surplus to the breeding programme, but semen would be collected/stored from him in case it was needed.

Two tigers, described as Bengals, arrived at Mogo Zoo in April 1995. The female came from Sydney and was noted to be pregnant on arrival; while the male had come from Malaysia. The female would have been a generic tiger; and it’s likely the male was too.

Thelma and Louise were born 1995, so I would assume they were the offspring of this female.

 

[steveroberts]

Didnt know quite where to put this in which thread but just rediscovered old calendar that received at Perth Zoo in late 1998 early 1999 that has a centenary article including interview with first director Ernest LeSouef's daughter Nancy LeSouef and some amazing photos etc. But sorry quality is bad, had to take phone photos. Also some photos didnt load properly so are tiny for some silly reason:

(handsome Memphis above, photogenic as always, Alistair, Mafuta and Manzi below, note Alistair's short mane due to vasectomisisation/later castration, last Lion to be born at Perth Zoo in Jan 1986, and impressive longevity dying at the zoo aged 21 in 2007)

(either Sean, Takia/Barbera or Viva but I think Sean)

(Hsing Hsing)

 

[steveroberts]

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for sharing @steveroberts. It was interesting to read through. That’s only the second time I’ve heard the name Yoka used - with it also being the name of one of Wellington Zoo’s tea party chimpanzees (and a founder of the regional population).

Yes, the sun bear is Sean I’d say from the wrinkles on the forehead.

 

[steveroberts]

youtube video upload of a family visit to Perth Zoo in May 1999. Some footage includes the old Fairy Penguin pool, the Japanese Macaque enclosure that stood for decades until not long after this, Mungo the Serval (born at Taronga) who lived at the zoo from 1985-March 2003, an Orangutan I think maybe @tetrapod or @Zoofan15 can probably identify, a much younger Putra Mas the Ele', either Calang or Malu the Sumatran Tiger, an Ostrich in what was just before the Antilopine Kangaroo paddock (and after that became the area now where the Sun Bears Bopha & Jamran's exhibits are now and the second Gibbon aviary constructed just after this), Barney & Missy the Syrian Brown Bears, and lots of other footage.

 

[Zoofan15]

youtube video upload of a family visit to Perth Zoo in May 1999. Some footage includes the old Fairy Penguin pool, the Japanese Macaque enclosure that stood for decades until not long after this, Mungo the Serval (born at Taronga) who lived at the zoo from 1985-March 2003, an Orangutan I think maybe @tetrapod or @Zoofan15 can probably identify, a much younger Putra Mas the Ele', either Calang or Malu the Sumatran Tiger, an Ostrich in what was just before the Antilopine Kangaroo paddock (and after that became the area now where the Sun Bears Bopha & Jamran's exhibits are now and the second Gibbon aviary constructed just after this), Barney & Missy the Syrian Brown Bears, and lots of other footage.

Great video. Seven month old giraffe calf, Nakuru, can be seen sitting on the ground besides one of the adults (by the size, I’d guess Anthony); while his two year old sister, Shani, approaches. One of the adult females (Misha or Marama) is browsing from a feeder.

I’m not 100% which orangutan it is, but the juvenile it’s playfighting with looks around seven, so I’d guess it’s Puteri (1970) and Teliti (1992). The adult looks too young to be Puspa (1981), who had a six year old daughter in 1999; and too young to be Puan, who might be the solitary female at the viewing window (with her youngest daughter, aged six, off screen somewhere).

It was nice to see the African lions - Alistair (1986), Mafuta (1992) and Manzi (1992). It’s staggering to think Perth Zoo hasn’t bred this species in 37 years!

 

[tetrapod]

Orangs in video: two playing with the hessian are Utama and Temara (half-sisters) which were housed with mum Puteri. Teliti was born in 2009. Female at window is Puspa.
Surprised that ostrich were still around in 1999 - must have left soon after this video.
Don't think I've ever seen the wombats outside the burrow!
Tiger would be Calang.

 

[Zoofan15]

Aerial Map of Perth Zoo (1993):

I thought this map might interest people. It really demonstrates the diversity of Perth’s collection in 1993 (in particular the primates and felids).

There’s several species that 30 years on, we’d all agree are better suited to an open range zoo. Most remain; while we’ve lost species well suited to a city zoo including Mandrill and leopards.


Photo source: Reddit - Dive into anything

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15

Lol forgot that did that map a year ago. I didnt upload here as was afraid of copyright infringing cos original aerial from Western Australian archives website.

*know now was definitely Sth Hairy Nosed Wombats (there was a bunch of small Freshwater Turtle ponds directly to the 'left' of them enroute to the 'Harmony Farm' entrance, not sure if they were Oblong Turtles, I assume the Western Swamps were too rare to be kept there possibly). Numbats had an exhibit in this area for some time but not certain when they moved to their current exhibit.

*might of mixed up which exhibit the Persian Leopard trio were revolved in between Fury & daughters Ishtar and Tiamat but recall seeing one of them around that time in that exhibit (never saw the melanistic generic Leopard unfortunately) but when Calang arrived the Persian Leopards were in the exhibit opposite Alistair, Mafuta & Manzi the Lions definitely).

*last Mandrill died in April 1994 but may have been moved off display before then, made the assumption that Mandrill would still be on display until passing away but could be quite wrong about that, in which case should be listed as the Tonkean Macaque 2.1 trio

*Horace the 1.0 Hoolock Gibbon died in July 1993 (Flossie 0.1 his partner passed away the year before in '92, I believe hepatitis was something they both suffered and led to earlier deaths unfortunately), but then it was two pairs of White-handed/Lars (thanks @tetrapod for the info) of which one pair was two females who occupied the two single size pens in the 'Gibbon Row' until at least 1995 (possibly longer).

 

[steveroberts]

source: https://jtp.id/batusecretzoo/file/2022/02/logo_wahana-1.png

OMG this was exactly Perth Zoo's logo in the 1990s, exactly, not similar but identical, and Batu Zoo in Indonesia must of purchased it off them. Wow never heard of a zoo just copying an old logo from another zoo entirely.

 

[Jambo]

source: https://jtp.id/batusecretzoo/file/2022/02/logo_wahana-1.png

OMG this was exactly Perth Zoo's logo in the 1990s, exactly, not similar but identical, and Batu Zoo in Indonesia must of purchased it off them. Wow never heard of a zoo just copying an old logo from another zoo entirely.

That is still Perth’s logo I believe!

Certainly seems like Batu copied it off Perth.

 

[Zoofan15]

source: https://jtp.id/batusecretzoo/file/2022/02/logo_wahana-1.png

OMG this was exactly Perth Zoo's logo in the 1990s, exactly, not similar but identical, and Batu Zoo in Indonesia must of purchased it off them. Wow never heard of a zoo just copying an old logo from another zoo entirely.

Geez it’s not that good a logo to be worth copying.

Within the region, Auckland Zoo’s old logo is the best I’ve seen - with the four integrated species. They switched to a new (and uninspiring) design several years ago - presumably around the time they phased out chimpanzee. As of late 2024, the elephant would also need to go!

 

[Chlidonias]

source: https://jtp.id/batusecretzoo/file/2022/02/logo_wahana-1.png

OMG this was exactly Perth Zoo's logo in the 1990s, exactly, not similar but identical, and Batu Zoo in Indonesia must of purchased it off them. Wow never heard of a zoo just copying an old logo from another zoo entirely.

It's not "identical" - it is reversed and has been redrawn - but it is the same logo nevertheless. Batu has also copied, albeit slightly less blatantly, the logo of the Los Angeles Zoo.

There are side-by-side comparisons on this page: ADJIHERDANTO - Batu Secret Zoo & Museum Satwa, Perth Zoo, Los...