Who said though she was gonna be bred naturally? They could always end up artificially inseminating Rosanna.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation
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Who said though she was gonna be bred naturally? They could always end up artificially inseminating Rosanna.
Well unfortunately the NA Population is far from ideal.
The options for him to go into a breeding scenario are ABQ, Oregon, Ft Worth, OKC, St Louis, NZP, Columbus and Syracuse.
ABQ has Albert who at 24 is still far from being retired as well as an older cow like Rozana is not likely to accept the advances of a 10 y/o bull like Duncan. Same can be said at Oregon with Samson, Syracuse with Doc ,Forth worth with both Romeo and Colonel all in the same boat.
That leaves Columbus and NZP. Columbus just recently received Sabu who should be there for at least another year before returning to Cincinnati. I'm by no means an expert on their facility but taking Duncan would mean having to rotate 1: Sabu, 2 Hank and Connie, 3: Phoebe, Frankie, Rudy and Sunny and 4: Duncan in separate herds for the time being just doesn't seem possible or logical. NZP on the other hand also has Spike who is WAY more valuable than Duncan is. Not to mention their space constraints as well.
That leaves OKC, St Louis. Unless of course he goes to White oak but that would be redundant because they have 4-5 other bulls Duncan's age or older to work with.
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Why waste the money on AI with a viable bull. Which last I heard Albert was.
because Albert shouldn’t be used for breeding. Genetically he’s not worth anything to the population and it’s been well hashed out that Albuquerque keeps breeding Rosanna, a very genetically valuable cow, with these ungenetically valuable males that aren’t worth anything to the population that shouldn’t even be in breeding situations in the first place. Stupid decision to ever breed Rosanna with males like Albert or Samson.
If it wasn’t for the fact they specified AZA, I’d say Duncan would most likely be headed to Rockton. He’s unrelated to ALL of their cows, and a good age/size to breed with all of their Jonson daughters.
Here are my thoughts:
Smithsonian: No (Spike is proven and MUCH more valuable)
Cincinnati: No
Oregon: No (He’s too small/young for their only breeding cow)
ABQ: No, for the same reasons as Oregon
Fort Worth: No (Their breeding bull doesn’t have any daughters there)
OKC: No, along with relation to the cows, they already have both Kandula and Bowie
Rosamond Gifford: No for the same reason as Fort Worth
White Oak: Not likely, they’ll want to breed from Casey as much as possible until he can no longer be bred from/passes away, whichever comes first.
St Louis: This one is possible, and hopefully will be where he goes! He’s unrelated Rani, and only a half first cousin to Jade, Maliha and Priya. He *is* a little young/small for all but Priya, I think Baylor would be a better choice simply because he’s older, but still, Duncan is much better than no one.
Denver: Technically possible, as Denver does contribute to breeding via AI. I believe they want to keep their population capped at five bulls right now though. However if someone else (most likely Bodhi) leaves, I would say very likely Duncan could go to Denver.
Tulsa: They’re setting up to breed, and all indication is that they will be using a new bull instead of Sneezy. This is a logical location for Duncan to head to for variety of reasons. They’re fairly close relatively speaking, won’t be in a position for breed for a few more years (giving Duncan time to grow and mature further), and Sneezy could continue to serve as a mentor bull for Duncan in the meantime.
Here are my thoughts:
Smithsonian: No (Spike is proven and MUCH more valuable)
Cincinnati: No
Oregon: No (He’s too small/young for their only breeding cow)
ABQ: No, for the same reasons as Oregon
Fort Worth: No (Their breeding bull doesn’t have any daughters there)
OKC: No, along with relation to the cows, they already have both Kandula and Bowie
Rosamond Gifford: No for the same reason as Fort Worth
White Oak: Not likely, they’ll want to breed from Casey as much as possible until he can no longer be bred from/passes away, whichever comes first.
St Louis: This one is possible, and hopefully will be where he goes! He’s unrelated Rani, and only a half first cousin to Jade, Maliha and Priya. He *is* a little young/small for all but Priya, I think Baylor would be a better choice simply because he’s older, but still, Duncan is much better than no one.
Denver: Technically possible, as Denver does contribute to breeding via AI. I believe they want to keep their population capped at five bulls right now though. However if someone else (most likely Bodhi) leaves, I would say very likely Duncan could go to Denver.
Tulsa: They’re setting up to breed, and all indication is that they will be using a new bull instead of Sneezy. This is a logical location for Duncan to head to for variety of reasons. They’re fairly close relatively speaking, won’t be in a position for breed for a few more years (giving Duncan time to grow and mature further), and Sneezy could continue to serve as a mentor bull for Duncan in the meantime.
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I highly doubt Duncan will be transferring to Saint Louis and Oklahoma City Zoo given he’s related to the majority of the eligible breeding cows there. In Syracuse the one eligible breeding female their Mali just had those 2 male twins, and at Fort Worth as you mentioned they have 2 bulls already and the 2 breeding cows Fort Worth has both recently had calves. Doubtful about him going to Smithsonian also but I don’t see Columbus or Albuquerque out of the realm of possibility either. I think though what @Hyak_II said, I’m betting Tulsa.
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@NOVAElephantEnthusiast as I mentioned in post #577, White Oak only has one bull, Casey, and he is fifty-two, so he is getting very old, and Duncan can start breeding in about four or five years, right when Casey might be too old to breed.
Actually I want to throw Miami in for consideration as well since they might come online as a breeding facility down the road as well. He’s of a good age and social upbringing to be a companion for Ongard for now, and Miami is technically able to maintain three separate social groups as well. This would be particularly good for Ongard, as their only other Asian is a geriatric cow who, afaik, does not ever share physical space with him.
Oop you’re correct! Had my grandsires mixed up, lol. He’s only unrelated to Rani, half first cousins to the other three.
And white oak is in control of the entirety of Ringling's herd. Meaning they have a total of 7 bulls. 2 at their Yulee campus and the rest at the former Ringling campus
I wouldn’t rule out Oregon. They have Samson but thus far, he hasn’t breed with Rose Tu which is a priority at the moment. His arrival could potentially coincide with sending Samundra elsewhere to breed.
ALS is also one of the potential options; Johnson is becoming quite well represented and some of his daughters are now reaching breeding age. Duncan could provide ALS with a second breeding bull which they need at the moment.
But the most realistic option imo is Tulsa for all of the reasons Hyak mentioned.
Another dark horse would be Columbus, especially as Sabu will be heading back to Cincinnati within the next year. They should have the space in the meantime. Columbus also have a strong desire to breed from Rudy and Sunny (who are temporarily paired with Hank), and Duncan’s unrelated to both.
Samson has bred numerous times with Rose-tu (there are a couple videos on Youtube as well iirc) but I think the issue may be with Rose. It may be a little too late for her since it's been nearly 10.5 years since her last calf but we can hope for the best! Personally, I'm of the belief that Oregon will acquire some new cows eventually to breed with Samudra, rather than another bull to breed with Rose. But we'll see!
I don't think he's headed to ALS because Houston did mention that the recieving facility was an AZA-accredited one, as Hyak mentioned earlier.
I agree that Columbus is a possible candidate because, like you mentioned, Sabu is to return to Cincy next year after having bred Phoebe, Rudy, and Sundara (he's already been introduced to the latter two so fingers crossed!) so that'd give Duncan a couple more years to grow up before he's needed as a breeding bull at Columbus.
It’s also possible though the Oregon Zoo has not yet announced Rose Tu’s pregnancy given like all the bad publicity they’ve gotten in recent years. Nobody knows for sure if she is or isn’t pregnant so that one I feel as though is a wait and see in my opinion.
Where do you imagine Oregon would acquire new cows from?
White Oak might be one worth trying for example or at least some of the cows there anyways. They could also potentially get more elephants from Europe or Australia.
It's hard to say. Perhaps from ALS, White Oak, or maybe even an import from Europe. Oregon was actually supposed to recieve some animals from Europe iirc but plans changed once the pandemic hit due to financial reasons.
Honestly, I personally don’t see why Oregon needs a new import at least not yet anyways. They could potentially still have a multigenerational herd from Rose Tus family bloodline but I do think though if Rose Tu can no longer reproduce, maybe the Oregon Zoo should not only get a new elephant herd but also I think expand and or renovate their elephant exhibit too.
Why should they modify their exhibit? They unironically have one of THE best Asian elephant exhibits in the country right now. The entire complex is less than 10 years old, it’s the largest indoor enclosure for Asian elephants in North America, and their outdoor space is absolutely nothing to scoff at. A number of spacious yards, all sand or soil substrate, a massive pool, mud wallows, and varied topography. Of elephants exhibits they one of the the very LAST that needs improving.
Actually, to insinuate the Oregon's exhibit needs modifications or renovations is honestly insulting.
Forest hall is arguably the singular best indoor exhibit for elephants in North America, once you factor in both space offered to the animals, and the overall presentation of the complex. It is *the* largest indoor exhibit in North America, for either specie, and far, far more visitor appealing than any others I have seen.
Their outdoor space alone is also absolutely nothing to scoff at. For example, Fort Worth's ENTIRE new complex, barn and all, could essentially fit inside their largest outdoor yard. Cincinnati's Elephant Trek will be a joke compared to elephant lands. The *only* facilities for asian elephants that meet or exceed Oregon currently are OKC (which is also a damn fine exhibit complex in its own right), White Oak, and in a few years, Tulsa. I'll give Rosamond Gifford an honorable mention here as well, their outdoor space and grassy exhibit is absolutely nothing to scoff at either.
Forest hall is arguably the singular best indoor exhibit for elephants in North America, once you factor in both space offered to the animals, and the overall presentation of the complex. It is *the* largest indoor exhibit in North America, for either specie, and far, far more visitor appealing than any others I have seen.
Their outdoor space alone is also absolutely nothing to scoff at. For example, Fort Worth's ENTIRE new complex, barn and all, could essentially fit inside their largest outdoor yard. Cincinnati's Elephant Trek will be a joke compared to elephant lands. The *only* facilities for asian elephants that meet or exceed Oregon currently are OKC (which is also a damn fine exhibit complex in its own right), White Oak, and in a few years, Tulsa. I'll give Rosamond Gifford an honorable mention here as well, their outdoor space and grassy exhibit is absolutely nothing to scoff at either.
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