Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Wishlist/Ideas for the Future

[FunkyGibbon]

I came up with this for here, http://www.zoochat.com/22/changes-you-would-make-your-zoo-274074/, but I think the problem with that thread is that people who actually know the specific collections aren't necessarily reading it so it isn't sparking much debate. Hopefully Dudley regulars will find this interesting, or disagree vehemently with me.

When I was thinking about how I would like Dudley to change I thought about its strengths and its weaknesses.
The weaknesses are a number of poor enclosures, as well as a few fairly uninspiring ones. Also a lack of cash to spend on improvements!
The strengths are a great setting, a unique variety of historic buildings, and more recently an innovative approach to building low cost enclosures.
I indulged myself and kept species around that I think of as linked to Dudley. Dudley will never be immersive or fully geographically zoned, but I did try to create blocks of exhibits from the same area.

Here are the changes I would like to see Dudley make:
(Bold is for a major, expensive development)


Build a new Snow Leopard enclosure on the hillside on the other side of the chair-lift to the Geladas.An indoor holding and viewing tower replaces the toilet block at the bottom of the hill (but still provides toilet facilities).

When Inca dies adapt the old polar bear pit for Binturong and Prevost's Squirrell. Add lots of planting there and to the macaques adjacent.

Adapt the Snow Leopard cage for Javan Langurs.


Build an aviary over the old Arabian Gazalle paddock and plant it thoroughly. Stock it with some African forest birds, and Red or Blue Duikers.

Return Bush Dogs to the old hyena enclosure. They were great. The wallabies and mara can be put into the kangaroo and tapir exhibits respectively.

Expand the old Cassowary enclosure backwards, and return Cassowaries.


Adapt the old Elephant House for Babirusa and add a new group there, replacing the Wallaby Walkthrough.

New Orangutan exhibit at the other end of the Chimpanzee paddock, using some of their outdoor area and some of the space beyond it. Two outdoor enclosures plus tall indoor holding. At the same time add proper containment and males to the Chimps and build a rotational exhibit in the woodland opposite for both species.


Demolish the old Ape House, and build a South American Glasshouse. A large walkthough indoor aviary with separate indoor holding for the Spider Monkeys and new Tamanduas. Build outdoor enclosures going up the slope towards the gibbons for both mammal species.

Add sloths to Monkey Tails.

Add Japanese Macaques to the old Spider Monkey enclosure. Build a heated outdoor pool for occasional use.

Send bachelor Geladas to another collection. Extend paddock up to walls of the Sensory Garden. Build a stable and add Takin.


Build two Asiatic Black Bear enclosures on wooded hillside overlooking old Bear Ravine. One Enclosure includes existing Tecton infrastructure and the end of the flat paddock. Indoor holding is part of Yak stable.
Build large stable building at the end of the Bear Ravine paddock nearest the entrance. Add Yak to the now smaller paddock.

Remove "fun"fair and replace it with a new Parrot Complex.


Last but not least, replace the ASCOs with Spot-necked Otters!


Any thoughts? What would other people like to see?

 

[Nisha]

The problem with Babirusia would be getting them again... the few that are being born in Europe are currently being prioritized for existing holders

 

[lamna]

Nice ideas, probably a little ambitious but not wild, pointless day dreaming.

I do disagree strongly with one though, moving the bachelor group of geladas. If you want to maintain breeding groups of animals, the responsible thing to do is to also take care of surplus too. Sure, I would love to have more species, but those animals have to go somewhere.

Aside from sourcing issues, I don't think the old elephant house would be good for babirusa. It's flipping cold and windy up there, and babirusa have very short hair. I'm no expert but I imagine they'd be spending most of their time indoors.

Snow Leopard Slope is a good idea, but while the terrain would not be a challenge for them, would they be comfortable with so little flat ground? It would probably be fine but I'd like to know. Plus, there are lots of nice old trees there that would probably have to go to make the place secure, which would be a bit of a shame.

I may have asked this before and forgotten, but does the zoo actually own the rest of the hill? The 2/3's of it that is covered in forest? It's often talked about as if it is, but I don't actually know.

 

[Jackwow]

Why don't you just send your list to Dudley and see what they say? Nothing I expect! Seriously, what is the point of a totally hypothetical thread like this?!

 

[FunkyGibbon]

Why don't you just send your list to Dudley and see what they say? Nothing I expect! Seriously, what is the point of a totally hypothetical thread like this?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun

 

[FunkyGibbon]

Nisha, I had seen something on here about Babirusa struggling in Europe. I assume there are no imports on the horizon? Such an interesting species.

I do disagree strongly with one though, moving the bachelor group of geladas. If you want to maintain breeding groups of animals, the responsible thing to do is to also take care of surplus too. Sure, I would love to have more species, but those animals have to go somewhere.

I can't argue with this in principle, and especially when an animal is endangered I enjoy seeing multiple enclosures and institutional commitment, but if Dudley could find another collection to take them, then that wouldn't be irresponisible. There aren't that many holders in Europe and the males especially are an attractive and potentially compelling exhibit.

Aside from sourcing issues, I don't think the old elephant house would be good for babirusa. It's flipping cold and windy up there, and babirusa have very short hair. I'm no expert but I imagine they'd be spending most of their time indoors.

Very good point. I think the enclosure needs a 'standout' species because of its location at the top of the chair lift, as well as the history of the Elephant House. By modern standards I think it's a little on the small side for most large ungulates, maybe a species that is naturally solitary would be ok.

Snow Leopard Slope is a good idea, but while the terrain would not be a challenge for them, would they be comfortable with so little flat ground? It would probably be fine but I'd like to know. Plus, there are lots of nice old trees there that would probably have to go to make the place secure, which would be a bit of a shame.

There would need to be a little landscaping done to create some artificial scree and 'perching' points. I don't know about the flat ground either, but how much of that do they actually have in their current enclosure? (which I think is fine by the way)
If you look at Google Earth I think there is enough room if you put the fence at the treeline. There are two or three solitary trees that could probably be left up inside the enclosure.

Thanks for your thoughts Lamna

 

[gentle lemur]

I have three suggestions for the short, medium and long terms.
First, modernise the rather plain waterfowl pool in the moat, before the penguins. Add a net to change it into an aviary, perhaps even a walk-through, and move in the ibises and some of the other birds from the aviaries by the otters, so that they can be renovated and replanted.
Second, please build a new orang house, whether on the current site or the one suggested above or somewhere else entirely, giving the orangs more space and stimulation indoors and out.
Third, develop a strategy. Dudley has always been a very general collection, which hasn't really made the most of its unique site. If a new development for snow leopards is considered, why not incorporate it into a Himalayan area with pheasants, macaques and even blue sheep - even if you have to build it in stages. As the collection is strong in reptiles and lemurs, reinforce those strengths by extending the Reptile House or building accommodation for mouse lemurs and (dare I say it?) gentle lemurs.

Alan

 

[Benosaurus]

OK I'll play along. This is roughly what I'd like to see...

-Bulldoze farmyard. Replace with peccaries. Keep the barn. Bulldoze area behind barn and merge with camel enclosure.

-Lose the playground next to camels and merge with camel enclosure.

-Lose fairground. Build large exhibit for capuchins and/or howler monkeys.

-The waterfowl area: Use as additional space for sea lions (highly unlikely) or use for flamingos.

-Fill in flamingo pool and merge with spider monkeys or turn it into a large aviary.

-I like the idea of snow leopard slope a great deal. However, they could double the size of current exhibit by extending towards the kookaburras as a cheap option.

-Use area left of the chairlift for Sulawesi macaques or bring in colobus.

-Merge old polar bear tecton with tecton on the right by cutting into the dividing wall (don't argue with me, they cut into the tecton on the left to create the tiger viewing window). Extend right hand tecton up the slope (rear wall isn't tecton, so not protected). Use for sun bears.

-Extend tiger exhibit into old bush dog enclosure. How? By continuing the tunnel from the viewing area under the path to create access. Cage extension over to prevent escape. It could also be useful as a separation area.

-Build a new giraffe house 25-50m behind the old one. Knock down old house and extend paddock.

-Wait till elderly kangaroos pass away. Merge former babirusa enclosure with former cassowary enclosure. Extend it slightly. Bring in giant anteater or okapi.

-Maybe let the Barbary sheep have the Cameroon sheep enclosure as well as their old one.

-You know the triple parrot aviaries next to the otters? Bulldoze them! Build a raised wooden walkway (similar to the one by the penguins/ reptile house) that gently slopes down the hill, through the woodland, around the back of the lemur walkthrough, and link it to the end of the path that runs alongside the chimps. This will allow people with pushchairs/ wheelchairs/ mobility scooters to return to the zoos lower level, safely, without doubling back on themselves. Build a wolf exhibit in the woodland on either side of the walkway.

-Brick up the front of the orang 'pods'. Fill in the moat. Add viewing windows and a roof. Knock into the current indoor areas. This now becomes an enormous orang house. Turn the peccary enclosure and the African hunting dog enclosure into two huge outdoor orang areas. Problem solved.

-Turn sensory garden into covered picnic area.

-Turn wallaby walkthrough into Binturong or clouded leopard exhibit.

-Bear ravine. Extend up hillside. Jags/ leopards/ wolverines etc. etc.. Build appropriate housing at the end if possible.

-Phase out chimps. Extend house slightly, on the right, to create an L-shape. Keep outdoor area at 1 acre but make it more gorilla friendly. Keep a bachelor group of 3-4 gorillas.

Phew! That's it from me. I'm off for a lie down. Let me know if you agree/disagree with any of the above

 

[adrian1963]

I wasn’t going to do this but have decided to join in.

Here we go then firstly get rid of the awful funfair, then play ground and use the areas for a new Grizzly Bear enclosure (fairground) extend the enclosure right back to the path at the top , extend the Camel enclosure into the playground.

Remove ALL the farmyard and use the area for Red Kangaroos, either refurbish or completely rebuild Monkey Tails and return it to a tropical walkthrough with new bird species.

Halve the Chimpanzee outdoor area and turn the other half into the Orangutan Exhibit with the indoor area in the old camel enclosure (which you can still see the indoor enclosure to through the scrub) just after the chimp enclosure.

There is 40 acres of land that 5 years ago was put up for sale to help fund new exhibits and refurbish old exhibits at the zoo but this was then ceased reasons unknown.
So really the zoo does still have 40 acres to work with this is mainly woodland and is very steep at points which probably makes the area a little hard to work with.

Now onto an area which nobody else as it’s the lion enclosure I think they should return the lions back to their old enclosure (African wild/painted dogs) and give the exhibit over to Sitatunga? They could then move the African Wild/Painted dogs into the old Bush dog enclosure.

Now onto the triple tecton exhibits these imo would be great for small primate species, as there were plans a few years ago to turn them into a new Chimpanzee exhibit I can’t see why they should reopen the idea but for small primate species or even Howler one side and Capuchin exhibits the other side with indoor viewing via a tunnel from the old toilet block opposite the Snow leopard enclosure.

As for the Old Parrot Aviaries I agree with knocking them down but replacing them with one large aviary containing a pair of toucan’s and golden or reeve’s pheasants.

Now onto something no one else as mentioned as yet the area opposite the spider monkeys this area would be great for a Hen Harrier Aviary with hope of breeding have the aviary extending the whole way up to the drive and have it enclosed on a wooden outside with a few viewing holes in the wooden exterior.

I agree with moving the giraffe house back and introduce a path around the back leading onto the path at the back of the chimps outdoor area we could also incorporate a path from the side of the new Toucan aviary on to the path thus again as said before giving people a chance to get back to the lower level without too much of a double back.

Now onto the reptile house extend the building or replace the current one with a new building thus extending from the path to the current entrance but having it over 2 levels.

Courtyard this would be a great area for a small collection of aviaries along the far wall containing endangered British species giving the public a sense of what problems exist in our own country.

More to follow.

 

[lamna]

Why don't you just send your list to Dudley and see what they say? Nothing I expect! Seriously, what is the point of a totally hypothetical thread like this?!

It's just a bit of fun, and there is a chance people at DZG might read these.

On the main Dudley thread moving the grey kangaroos once Nick the babirusa passed away and building a new playground by the entrance was something discussed before it actually happened.

Chances are those were just obvious moves, but you never know.
---
The howlers and capuchin seem to be doing well in their current exhibits, no rush with them (though the howler family keeps growing and growing) but it would be nice to see them with more space.

Inca's current home and the snow leopard's would require minimal modification (though with the snow leopards you'd have to build them a new home). The current location of the roller-coaster would also be good, but that require building something from scratch, expensive and it might disturb the bats.

The farmyard and the woodland are something I'd rather not be touched. Unlike the fair, the farm seems quite popular. It might not be the most exciting thing for zoo nerds (I'm a fan though), but it's doing it's job. The woods could be used, but it is a precious island of forest in the middle of the West Midlands, and it's home to badgers. I wouldn't want to lose that much of it.
---
I prefer not to be too ambitious and talk about new animals, but if you're looking for interesting hoofstock for the elephant house then what about muskox?

It being cold and exposed up there would be a good thing for them, they are fairly imposing while being actually quite compact, and it would create a theme with the reindeer.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

-The waterfowl area: Use as additional space for sea lions (highly unlikely) or use for flamingos.

I thought about doing exactly this, but even though it would create extra space, it wouldn't be a very good kind of extra space. It would be another pool of roughly the same size, so there would be more choice, but no chance for swimming faster or further or deeper. Does the exhibit seem crowded with five sealions?

-Merge old polar bear tecton with tecton on the right by cutting into the dividing wall (don't argue with me, they cut into the tecton on the left to create the tiger viewing window). Extend right hand tecton up the slope (rear wall isn't tecton, so not protected). Use for sun bears.

Maybe the den area isn't original so they were able to cut into it. I can't imagine they would have been allowed if it was covered by the listing.

-Brick up the front of the orang 'pods'. Fill in the moat. Add viewing windows and a roof. Knock into the current indoor areas. This now becomes an enormous orang house. Turn the peccary enclosure and the African hunting dog enclosure into two huge outdoor orang areas. Problem solved.

This is the first really credible suggestion I have seen that involves keeping the House intact. Especially because it would be unrecognisable! Shame to lose the wild dogs though.

The walkway around the back of the zoo is a great idea that would solve a key visitor issue at the zoo. It might open up more exhibit possibilities on unused land as well.

Third, develop a strategy. Dudley has always been a very general collection, which hasn't really made the most of its unique site. If a new development for snow leopards is considered, why not incorporate it into a Himalayan area with pheasants, macaques and even blue sheep - even if you have to build it in stages.
Alan

This sounds like an excellent idea. The whole area around the entrance looking up the hill could be given over to it.

I prefer not to be too ambitious and talk about new animals, but if you're looking for interesting hoofstock for the elephant house then what about muskox?

It being cold and exposed up there would be a good thing for them, they are fairly imposing while being actually quite compact, and it would create a theme with the reindeer.

I was literally thinking about this as a possibility yesterday after you pointed out the exposure issue. Maybe a small bachelor herd would be appropriate?

 

[canaryboy2]

Prophecy

Why don't you just send your list to Dudley and see what they say? Nothing I expect! Seriously, what is the point of a totally hypothetical thread like this?!

Sorry to say this, but about 2/3 years ago, I posted on a Twycross forum of a similar nature. I came up with the idea, totally randomly, that if I was chairman "I'd then put a walk-through butterfly exhibit in the white building by the pets corner. These are really enjoyable for all ages and are fairly cheap to create." Cue one year later Butterfly house next to pets corner.

They either stole the idea or it's prophecy

 

[Benosaurus]

Having just rediscovered this thread I thought I'd list the above wishes/ideas that have come true in the three years since it was made...

Binturong

Prevost's Squirrel

(Although at this point we don't know if they are definitely still coming).

Return Bush Dogs

Mara can be put into the tapir exhibit

Extend bachelor gelada paddock up to walls of the Sensory Garden.

-------

Bulldoze area behind barn and merge with camel enclosure.

Build large exhibit for capuchins

I like the idea of snow leopard slope a great deal. However, they could double the size of current exhibit by extending towards the kookaburras as a cheap option.

Use area left of the chairlift for Sulawesi macaques

Merge former babirusa enclosure with former cassowary enclosure. Extend it slightly. Bring in giant anteater

You know the triple parrot aviaries next to the otters? Bulldoze them!

(Sort of. They then built a single larger aviary in their place).

Turn the peccary enclosure and the African hunting dog enclosure into two huge outdoor orang areas.

(Just the hunting dog enclosure for now, once they complete fundraising).

Turn sensory garden into covered picnic area.

(Sort of. It's currently a picnic area combined with a children's beach area).


-------

rebuild Monkey Tails and return it to a tropical walkthrough with new bird species

('Monkey Tails' is now a rainbow lorikeet walkthrough, along with Victoria crowned pigeon, Roul Roul partridge, black-capped lory, and green-naped lorikeet).

As for the Old Parrot Aviaries I agree with knocking them down but replacing them with one large aviary

Now onto the triple Tecton exhibits these imo would be great for small primate species, as there were plans a few years ago to turn them into a new Chimpanzee exhibit I can’t see why they should reopen the idea but for small primate species or even Howler one side

It would be great if even more people could add their wishes/ideas for what they would like to see at Dudley in the future, no matter how big or small (but ideally realistic/within the realms of possibility), to this thread. Those who have already posted may like to update their list. We'll then check back in another 3 years time to see which ones become reality.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

I thought I might do a bit of a review of where Dudley is right now, strictly focused on future development that needs doing, or will need doing in the not so distant. Most of this was written a few months back and then forgotten about. I've tried to bring it up to date but apologies if something is missed.

....

We'll start off with a special class of exhibit: those major projects that have been announced in the last few years but have yet to materialise.

Tigers
The tigers won the public funding 'contest' in 2017, and were supposed to receive an extension to the back of their exhibit. This has, to the best of my knowledge, not happened. In one sense I am not that fussed since I never understood why it should be a priority, but in another sense the public was told 250K was earmarked for this work. What happened to it?

Bears
The renovation of Bear Ravine won a similar contest in 2018 and this was much more exciting. However, as it stands right now ground has yet to be broken on the site. I am much more optimistic that this will eventually transpire, since failure to do so would be more public (and success more lucrative).

Orangutans
Also in 2017: the announcement of the long-awaited, and much needed, Orang development. We are currently 500K into the 800K needed, so the zoo must be hoping that they reach that goal this year. There are some interesting details here. It has been kept very much in the public mind (on this forum anyway), that this project consists of netting over the soon-to-be-former African wild dog exhibit. But if you go back and read initial reporting you will see that this is just Phase 2. Phase 1 was redoing the indoors years ago and Phase 3 is the redevelopment of the current, and very poor, outdoor exhibits. We don't know what that would entail; I think it's safe to assume though that this isn't covered by the 800K.

Also worth noting here: the lar gibbons are supposed to be moving into the new netted exhibit. I think this is ridiculous, since their current enclosure is one of those simple yet effective exhibits that Dudley do so well. It's so iconic in fact that the current (relatively new) logo is based around it. Hopefully if this does happen Dudley will go into another gibbon species rather than mess with something that's great as it is.

The Tropical Bird House
In 2017 it was announced that the old Tecton, which sits atop the lion indoor holding, would become a South American House. Despite much excitement this was almost immediately shelved due to what seemed like fairly spurious concerns about having a common vision for the development of the Tectons. Hopefully these plans are sitting on a shelf waiting for tides to change.

....

These are four of the five major plans discussed; the fifth is different in that although it was presented to the public it has never been committed to by the zoo.

Chimpanzee
Renovating the chimps to allow the holding of males was in both contests (2017 & '18), but never made it. After the work on the orangs (desperately needed) and the arrival of the bears (not strictly necessary but a real flagship development for the zoo) this will become Dudley's most pressing large-scale need. Some say that even if the exhibit is renovated it would be difficult to get males and that the females are too old now, but in fact four of them are under thirty. This is not a problem that is going to go away and if the EEP coordinator doesn't want to provide males Dudley should find out why and then work to fix it (assuming this hasn't already happened).

There is some opportunity here: the chimp outdoors is unnecessarily large and it would be much cheaper to 'male-proof' about half of it. That would leave a large paddock to be filled by something down the line. (more about this later)

....

Once the chimps have been dealt with attention is inevitably going to turn to the other two major ABC draws in the collection. These are not currently seen as pressing needs, but this will change over the next decade.

Sea lions
It was a bit of a surprise to many of us when the zoo got a new influx of sea lion individuals a few years ago, after the death of Orry. The pools are iconic, and listed, but are also relatively small (not too small), and too shallow (they are too shallow). I don't think anyone wants to see Dudley go out of pinnipeds down the line, so the zoo is probably going to have to do two things:

One, somehow get permission to make the existing pools much deeper, by argueing that you won't be able tell the difference when there is water in, and pointing out that from a heritage perspective it would be much better to have sea lions in an exhibit that maintains the spirit of the original than nothing in a precisely preserved version.

Two, build a third pool. This is tricky since it can't connect directly to the other two without destroying the integrity of the 'sea lions in the moat' experience. It's also difficult because where would you put it? After consideration, I suggest on the site of the Queen Victoria aviary. It would have to be innovative, but it could be very deep there because of how the ground falls away, and you could incorporate underwater viewing onto the side facing the current orangutan outdoors. Somehow you connect the old and new with an innovative tunnel or even water bridge.

Giraffes
I have no real problem with the current set up. It does what it does well. But it looks older every year, and it certainly doesn't look any bigger. It's also obviously incapable of holding a largish herd, or even just separating the group into more than two groups.

There have been suggestions that the current site could be much expanded by demolishing the house and moving it back; I am unconvinced. Looking again last autumn I don't think the space is there. There is obviously some potential to change the shape of the paddock, which looks a bit awkward, and a new house could take quite a lot of forms. Should it have giraffes in after redevelopment? I am not so sure. I think in that footprint it will never be easy to hold a fine breeding herd. Perhaps a small bachelor group would be a good option. Another way to go would be to move out of giraffes all together and hold a larger group of something else, preferably something attractive like lesser kudu or bongo (even okapi).

....

Before we get into what I would describe as 'lesser issues', we might indulge ourselves in imagining a future flagship development, something like the bears which isn't a much-needed renovation. I think it's important for any medium-sized zoo to hold at least one megafauna species (by which I mean one of the big four). There is at least some possibility that Dudley will go out of giraffes in the mid-term, at least on the current site. The largest available space of land in the zoo is the area within and beyond the chimp outdoors, and if that space was unlocked during renovation of the chimp exhibit then it would be very much in play.

There has always been some sense that this area of land, sitting at the bottom of a hill, is too boggy for the savannah exhibit that many want to see there. I will be sticking within this paradigm and therefore don't see it as a place you could move giraffes to, and clearly it's not going to be elephants. I don't think that, even if Dudley could somehow find the money for a good hippo exhibit, it would be wise to saddle the zoo with the high maintainence costs and legacy issues that would deliver. Therefore it has to be rhinos and clearly on a boggy site it should be Indian rhinos. They would be great for Dudley, and because that space has geographic constraints two medium paddocks would work better than one expansive one. A decent house could also hold some nice satellite exhibits, as Dudley has recently shown it can deliver in the chimp indoor house and discovery barn. Possibly we could finally find a home for Prevost's squirrel at Dudley?

With more ambition comes more possibilities; Indian rhinos have been successfully mixed with Asian antelope and deer in other places, and you can get pretty clever with primates if you use islands or even just trees within rocky areas. It would be great to see blackbuck and lion-tailed macaque here.

The other effect of situating any major exhibit further down that path is that it would open up the old enclosures on the hillside, like the sun bear pit. These could probably be redone quite cheaply and effectively in the 'New Dudley' style of clean timber. This area is natural woodland. You could easily bring back red squirrels, put souslik in the pit and then add wildcats and a European aviary.

Finally, such a major development would almost necessitate the construction of a new path from the upper zoo to this lower section, since the current 'snail trail' would be even less fit for purpose (credit to @Benosaurus for this idea).

....

Here are some smaller exhibits that are ripe for redevelopment:

Spider monkey and gelada bachelors
The gelada bachelors have now left. I have never believed the spider monkeys work there; it's too exposed and they are so rarely outside. I would still like to see takin where the geladas were. For the spider monkey exhibit Dudley could try North American porcupine; they were a popular pick for the polar bear pit.

Old black bear pit
Howler monkeys seem a bit lost in here. It's a great exhibit and the new woodwork looks nice. It just needs a new inhabitant. How about a large and active group of barbary macaques?

Elephant house
It's been a waste of space as a pretty disappointing wallaby walkthrough for too long. People, or at least me, tend to forget the actual house is a protected Tecton. Probably it can still hold smaller hoofstock well enough. I really liked the suggestion to try a small bachelor group of musk ox here.

Castle
I would like Castle Creatures to expand as much as possible into a full-blown nocturnal house.

Arabian gazelle paddock
Sticking with my previous suggestion of a small African aviary with duiker.

Discovery Centre and Monkey Houses
Dudley seems to be doing a good job of slowly renovating the Monkey House. Heaven knows what the plan is for the Discovery Centre. I'm gong to dream small and say Insectarium. But first there's a huge amount of restoration work to be done.

Waterfowl pool
Nothing wrong here, it's just a bit tired. Netting it over would add a lot more possibilities; I'm thinking storks, egrets etc

Last but not least there is one final unresolved order of business:

New Wild dog exhibit
If I am not mistaken Dudley have said wild dog will remain in the collection after their exhibit is demolished for the new orangutan outdoors. Where are they going to go? Hopefully into unused land at the back of the zoo rather than taking the place of something else (and it's hard to imagine where that would be).

*****

This thread was initially supposed to be just a bit of fun, but it was interesting to see how people making reasonable suggestions can actually get close to accurate predictions, at least in some cases. I'd like to keep that going.

 

[TNT]

Tigers
The tigers won the public funding 'contest' in 2017, and were supposed to receive an extension to the back of their exhibit. This has, to the best of my knowledge, not happened. In one sense I am not that fussed since I never understood why it should be a priority, but in another sense the public was told 250K was earmarked for this work. What happened to it?

Forgive me if I'm wrong - But wasn't there the issue of multiple levels of protection/listing? That being the Tecton itself, the castle/slope and some of the trees?

 

[Benosaurus]

Tigers
The tigers won the public funding 'contest' in 2017, and were supposed to receive an extension to the back of their exhibit. This has, to the best of my knowledge, not happened. In one sense I am not that fussed since I never understood why it should be a priority, but in another sense the public was told 250K was earmarked for this work. What happened to it?

Forgive me if I'm wrong - But wasn't there the issue of multiple levels of protection/listing? That being the Tecton itself, the castle/slope and some of the trees?

Work on the tiger enclosure hasn't started yet because the zoo is still waiting for planning permission, which they first applied for back in early 2018. According to the planning documents on the council's website the first application was rejected because Historic England wanted more detail about the plans, so the zoo submitted amended plans, which were also rejected.

Historic England's response to the second application stated that most of their concerns about the details of the first application had been addressed by the amendments, but they had rejected it again because they now wanted to know what a small balustrade in front of the new indoor viewing area would be made out of and whether the small amount of timber cladding by the existing viewing area would be retained or removed (with a request that it is removed)… that's it, which I think is quite a harsh thing on the zoo to make them go through the whole process all over again for.

Since Historic England's most recent response (which was back in May 2019) the zoo have submitted a third application which Historic England are still yet to respond to.

As a result, due to the fact it is taking so long to get planning permission for the tiger enclosure, it looks like the zoo have turned their focus onto constructing the new bear enclosure first, for which they have recently gained planning permission from Historic England with relatively little difficulty. The slowness of gaining the planning permission has still caused delays to the start of constructing the bear enclosure though, which was originally stated as Winter 2019 when the bear project was first announced.

The problem now is that COVID-19 will inevitably delay construction of the bear project, and hence the tiger project, for perhaps another year and funds that were reserved for these projects (~ 250K each) may be needed to keep the zoo afloat while doors are closed. However, an impressive new bear enclosure would be a very good way of bringing visitors flooding back once zoo doors are allowed to open again.

 

[Benosaurus]

Orangutans
Also in 2017: the announcement of the long-awaited, and much needed, Orang development. We are currently 500K into the 800K needed, so the zoo must be hoping that they reach that goal this year.

As of 29th Feb 2020, they've managed to raise £616,380, so they're not too far off and have done quite well. However, I imagine that donations directly to the orang project will have slowed right down at the moment due to 'lockdown' as instead people are donating to the zoo's help-keep-us-open JustGiving page. I will not at all be surprised if the start date for work on the new orangutan enclosure is pushed back by another year as a result of the pandemic.

There are some interesting details here. It has been kept very much in the public mind (on this forum anyway), that this project consists of netting over the soon-to-be-former African wild dog exhibit.

When the project was first announced the concept art did show it would be a netted over type enclosure. However, the computer generated images in the recent planning documents show they now plan for it to be an open-topped enclosure with Monkey World type fencing. I think I prefer this open-topped route as it will allow them to add more height to the climbing structures (I'm also not a fan of saggy netting - see Twycross's snow leopard enclosure).

But if you go back and read initial reporting you will see that this is just Phase 2. Phase 1 was redoing the indoors years ago and Phase 3 is the redevelopment of the current, and very poor, outdoor exhibits. We don't know what that would entail;

I definitely think Phase 3 should consist of converting Benji's tiny outdoor area into an indoor area and knocking through to merge it with his current indoor area. Especially, as the large new outdoor enclosure (Phase 2) will be adjacent to his end of the orang house. This would also cause possibly one of the worst orang outdoor areas in all of Europe to vanish, which would be a massive uplift for the zoo.

Hopefully, perhaps 10 years from now, we'll see a Phase 4 where the current peccary enclosure is turned into another large, leafy orangutan outdoor area.

Then, once Phase 4 is complete, maybe Phase 5 could be to convert Jorong, Sprout and Jaz's current outdoor enclosure into a large indoor space too.

I think it's safe to assume though that this isn't covered by the 800K.

Correct. They'll probably have to start fundraising all over again for Phase 3, so it could be a few more years until that starts. Hopefully, as the zoo continues to improve and attract more visitors, it won't be as long a wait as before though.

Also worth noting here: the lar gibbons are supposed to be moving into the new netted exhibit. I think this is ridiculous, since their current enclosure is one of those simple yet effective exhibits that Dudley do so well. It's so iconic in fact that the current (relatively new) logo is based around it. Hopefully if this does happen Dudley will go into another gibbon species rather than mess with something that's great as it is.

This was also indeed the plan when the project was first announced a few years ago. However, the recent planning documents contain no mention of the gibbons and the computer generated images of the new orang enclosure do not show a gibbon house (which they originally said would go on the site of the current wild dog dens).
The current gibbon enclosure is probably my favourite exhibit in the zoo, as you say, it's simple yet effective. Although size wise it seems fine, it's not the largest gibbon enclosure you'll ever see and the house could maybe do with more height (this will never change due to the castle though), but it's a very pretty enclosure and wonderful to see such active, playful gibbons have access to multiple mature trees. They've also been very successful with them in that enclosure.

The Tropical Bird House
In 2017 it was announced that the old Tecton, which sits atop the lion indoor holding, would become a South American House. Despite much excitement this was almost immediately shelved due to what seemed like fairly spurious concerns about having a common vision for the development of the Tectons. Hopefully these plans are sitting on a shelf waiting for tides to change.

The zoo must have been furious when heritage officials changed their minds and pulled the plug on the plans, especially after the zoo had already announced everything to the public. Anniversary plans halted – Dudley Zoo and Castle

However, I'm glad this happened, because it led to the zoo constructing the very decent new sloth exhibit (also includes agouti, Goeldi monkeys and titi monkeys) on the site of the old tortoise enclosure, which I reckon is miles better than anything they would have done inside the old Bird House Tecton. To be honest, I don't think it's possible to construct any sort of high quality, future-proof animal exhibit inside the Bird House Tecton these days. I strongly think it should be turned into a mini museum all about the history of the castle, the Tectons, the zoo, and how they all interlink. It would also be very cool to have a Tecton museum inside a Tecton.

 

[Benosaurus]

How about Eurasian brown bears sharing the bear ravine with the zoo's Carpathian lynx?

 

[Animallover1998]

How about Eurasian brown bears sharing the bear ravine with the zoo's Carpathian lynx?

I was going to suggest - depending on the amount of space of course - that they could be mixed with wolves (whichever subspecies).

I feel as though they don't seem to care about the Rhea as such when there are so many other places in Britain they could be moved to... (e.g, BWCP, Drayton Manor, Hoo Zoo). I actually imagined they could transform that hardstanding by the camels into a separate facility for a wolf pack.

I know mixing Bears with wolves is quite risky, and in some cases it hasn't ended all too well. But if Wild Place are able to do it, then I think Dudley might be able to as well.

Or they could just remove the chimps and turn that into a wolf enclosure, they're not even breeding those here anyway.

 

[AdrianW1963]

Do you think the zoo should move onto Pallas Cat and Clouded leopards and if were should they be exhibited?