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So what's happened to their Philippine crocodile project now?

It appears to have stagnated. They have a male named Luzon (1998), who bred with a female named Isabella to produce clutches in 2013 and 2014. Disappointingly, they were all exported, which is frustrating as it’d have been nice to see a breeding programme established.

Taronga are planning to house this species, so hopefully Melbourne will feel encouraged and consider importing a new female.
 
It appears to have stagnated. They have a male named Luzon (1998), who bred with a female named Isabella to produce clutches in 2013 and 2014. Disappointingly, they were all exported, which is frustrating as it’d have been nice to see a breeding programme established.

Taronga are planning to house this species, so hopefully Melbourne will feel encouraged and consider importing a new female.

No other zoos within the region were willing to cooperate, hence the exports.

Melbourne retired Isabella, who has since died. I think an entire new pair would be beneficial to the small worldwide breeding program, rather than breeding from Luzon again, who has multiple descendants in the US and Europe.
 
No other zoos within the region were willing to cooperate, hence the exports.

Melbourne retired Isabella, who has since died. I think an entire new pair would be beneficial to the small worldwide breeding program, rather than breeding from Luzon again, who has multiple descendants in the US and Europe.
I Believe there were at least one other zoo at that time that was interested in obtaining them but they chose to export them back to their native country were I believe almost every small zoo appears to have some.
 
No other zoos within the region were willing to cooperate, hence the exports.

I Believe there were at least one other zoo at that time that was interested in obtaining them but they chose to export them back to their native country were I believe almost every small zoo appears to have some.

A familiar story. Here’s hoping the Sri Lankan leopard doesn’t go the same way. There really needs to be a greater level of collaboration within our region’s zoos - especially on critically endangered or endangered species (of which these two are both examples of).
 
A familiar story. Here’s hoping the Sri Lankan leopard doesn’t go the same way. There really needs to be a greater level of collaboration within our region’s zoos - especially on critically endangered or endangered species (of which these two are both examples of).

I agree. It's shame zoos aren't willing to cooperate, especially those that have the space and resources.

I Believe there were at least one other zoo at that time that was interested in obtaining them but they chose to export them back to their native country were I believe almost every small zoo appears to have some.

Which zoo was this?
 
Agreed shame they could not see the bigger picture

I’m hoping Auckland Zoo’s import of False gharial sparks an interest in this species. While Auckland Zoo will be glad to have a point of difference (regionally as well as nationally), a thriving international breeding programme is always preferable.
 
16 bird species is not quite what I expected, especially for a major zoo like Melbourne. They have the Great Flight Aviary (and that would point them to only have ten I think in the GFA discounting the Penguins, Cassowary and four South East Asian bird species). Which is a dramatic drop, only a decade ago I believe I could name at least 20-25 in the GFA.

I think that’s a miscommunication. The most recent full species on show list on ZooChat mentions 16 species in the GFA and about 35 in total. Still a pitiful number for a notionally major zoo.
 
I think that’s a miscommunication. The most recent full species on show list on ZooChat mentions 16 species in the GFA and about 35 in total. Still a pitiful number for a notionally major zoo.

Thanks! I visited just a few weeks ago and actually uploaded a species list so was about concerned to see it down to 16! When I thought the zoo has much more than that. I think it was around 38 bird species I counted, but keep in mind, the Amazon Aviary was closed at the time, with the birds off display, so I’d say they have about 45-50 bird species in total (on and off display).
 
Thanks! I visited just a few weeks ago and actually uploaded a species list so was about concerned to see it down to 16! When I thought the zoo has much more than that. I think it was around 38 bird species I counted, but keep in mind, the Amazon Aviary was closed at the time, with the birds off display, so I’d say they have about 45-50 bird species in total (on and off display).

Ha! I completely missed it was your own work I was citing. :D

The Amazon aviary, if indeed it will continue in that role, only has about five species of parrot, including the macaws you listed in Growing Wild.
 
Ha! I completely missed it was your own work I was citing. :D

The Amazon aviary, if indeed it will continue in that role, only has about five species of parrot, including the macaws you listed in Growing Wild.

All good.:p

Given the age of the Amazon Aviary, I’m not sure they plan to introduce birds into it once again. With most of the macaw species now living in Growing Wild, there’s almost virtually no need for the Amazon Aviary now. It was initially built for monkeys; and the zoo could easily renovate the enclosure to be suitable for a species like Capcuhin or Squirrel Monkey; which would take the Squirrel Monkeys out of the ‘Asian’ trail.
 
Very cool to see this map.

The Great Ape Grottos surely would've been a highlight. The zoo had three grottos (one each for gorilla, orangutan and chimps). They eventually demolished one to make way for the Gorilla Rainforest in 1992, leaving two (for gorillas still, and orangutans) with chimps being phased out.

I believe there were actually 4 ape grottoes (4 sections separated by walls), at least from the mid 80's through until the redevelopment of the area as Lemur Island in 2016. I don't think any of the great apes area was demolished or redeveloped for the Gorilla Rainforest; rather everything west of it down to the Arboreal Treetop Walk (ie: the koala enclosure behind the ape house, and the paddocks on the west - guanaco, sitatungas, rheas; and dingos etc. along the south wall) - but I don't think the ape house or grottoes themselves saw any demolishment for the rainforest.

During the pandemic I re-watched Zoo family episodes, and more or less established that the first two (coming in off Main Drive) were gorillas, next one was for orangutans and the last one was for chimpanzees. The last one was adjacent to the gorilla nursery where you could view Mzuri when he was an infant. The first one (coming off Main Drive) had mesh up after the rock throwing incident. I feel like I remember a time before that mesh, and the news report when the rock throwing incident occurred - but I was pretty young, so I can't say for sure.

My actual memory is kinda that it was orangs and then chimps next to the gorilla nursery, but again, I was pretty young so I trust the show footage that appeared to show it as the other way around.

By 2007 visitor access was restricted to just the last grotto, but I don't think any were demolished (until they all were). Prior to Lemur Island, I think they had Lemurs in the last one (IIRC - I'd have to check with photos). And maybe orangs occupied both of the last two in the 1990s/2000s after the chimps left. I have some memory of orangs being in the last one at some point in the 2000's.
 
I believe there were actually 4 ape grottoes (4 sections separated by walls), at least from the mid 80's through until the redevelopment of the area as Lemur Island in 2016. I don't think any of the great apes area was demolished or redeveloped for the Gorilla Rainforest; rather everything west of it down to the Arboreal Treetop Walk (ie: the koala enclosure behind the ape house, and the paddocks on the west - guanaco, sitatungas, rheas; and dingos etc. along the south wall) - but I don't think the ape house or grottoes themselves saw any demolishment for the rainforest.
No, you would be right. None of the gorilla rainforest was built on any of the pre existing grottoes.
During the pandemic I re-watched Zoo family episodes, and more or less established that the first two (coming in off Main Drive) were gorillas, next one was for orangutans and the last one was for chimpanzees. The last one was adjacent to the gorilla nursery where you could view Mzuri when he was an infant. The first one (coming off Main Drive) had mesh up after the rock throwing incident. I feel like I remember a time before that mesh, and the news report when the rock throwing incident occurred - but I was pretty young, so I can't say for sure.
The fourth grotto definitely held the chimps. See the MZ history thread, there's some episodes of Zoo Family featuring the exhibit and you can clearly see the chimp enclosure is located right next to the Gorilla Rainforest. The current B+W Ruffed Lemur enclosure pretty much is on the location of this grotto.

The netting around the gorilla enclosure would make sense. At one point, a deranged visitor jumped into the exhibit and proceeded to physically attack one of the gorillas, Betsy (who was in with young Mzuri at the time). So i'd assume the netting may have been put up as a result of this incident too. Rigo may have been the rock thrower - i'm sure I read about him 'acting out' and doing such antics somewhere before.
By 2007 visitor access was restricted to just the last grotto, but I don't think any were demolished (until they all were). Prior to Lemur Island, I think they had Lemurs in the last one (IIRC - I'd have to check with photos). And maybe orangs occupied both of the last two in the 1990s/2000s after the chimps left. I have some memory of orangs being in the last one at some point in the 2000's.
Didn't they knock down the all three walls to create one large grotto in 2006; which then housed Melbourne's bachelor male gorillas? I believe they may have actually demolished the first grotto off the main drive; and only had three remaining by the 2000's.

I don't think the grottos ever had Lemurs. Orangutans occupied at least two joint grottos by the 2000's; with Rigo then having the other. It would make sense if Melbourne only had three at this time; meaning the other must have been demolished in the 90's...Rigo and the Orangutans then moved out in 2006 and the trio of bachelor male moved in (into the three joint grottos).
 
Didn't they knock down the all three walls to create one large grotto in 2006; which then housed Melbourne's bachelor male gorillas? I believe they may have actually demolished the first grotto off the main drive; and only had three remaining by the 2000's.

I don't think they knocked down the walls between the grottoes; at least not in any visible way from the vantage point still available after 2006...

I have a couple photos from a Mar 2007 visit where the first grotto is still completely intact - it extends from the light tan brick wall (the wall that was always visible from the path that connected to Main Drive, even after grotto access was blocked) and the original dividing wall (between the 1st and 2nd grottoes) is still very much there.

I also have photos from May 2009, that show the 4th grotto intact with the dividing wall between the 4th and 3rd still there, and the divider between the 3rd and 2nd still there. I can't categorically see whether the dividing wall between the 2nd and 1st is still there. Actually, no I can, right by the patio located between them. Based on this, I am pretty sure (as sure as one can be given the cut off access at least) that at very least up until May 2009 all 4 grottoes still existed and I believe all were still individually walled (absolutely the 2nd, 3rd and 4th were) - and as best I can tell 1st was too. This visit was days before relocating to the States. I don't seem to have any photos of the grottoes on my next visit in Aug 2013, so I can't really speak to what happened between May 2009 and their demolition.

I have some memory from my childhood of big brown metal doors / gates in the grotto walls. Maybe Rigo was given access to multiple grottoes after 2006 via these doors rather than the walls being demolished. Or maybe access to multiple grottoes was via the ape house. I don't know, just a thought.

I don't think the grottos ever had Lemurs. Orangutans occupied at least two joint grottos by the 2000's; with Rigo then having the other. It would make sense if Melbourne only had three at this time; meaning the other must have been demolished in the 90's...Rigo and the Orangutans then moved out in 2006 and the trio of bachelor male moved in (into the three joint grottos).

Yep, although I could swear I remember this, it could be a false memory. Going back through my photos, I don't seem to have any photographic evidence of Lemurs in the 4th grotto. I do have a shot of what I think is a gibbon (black ape with a white face) from a May 2009 visit, and maybe that's what I'm getting confused with.

To summarize based on the photos I have:

Mar 2007
  • First grotto still exists, the wall between grotto 1 & 2 is fully intact.
  • Access from Main Drive is permanently blocked (gardens are where the connecting path was, starting from the brick wall).
  • Only other grotto photo I have is one from Main Drive, through the trees. I assume this means the "south wall" access was also blocked. (Yep, my blog from that day confirms that this entry / all access to the grottoes were blocked).
Nov 2007
  • Access via "south wall" entrance is not blocked.
  • Access to grotto 4 is mostly blocked (by a gate). High wire "construction" fence (which you can see through) is up (behind the short pine fence), from the grotto 3/4 patio, to aforementioned gate . Basically grotto 4 is accessible, but with limited viewing - and probably nothing in there.
  • Access to grottoes 3 - 1 blocked by diamond fence, just beyond the grotto 3/4 patio. Viewing of grotto 3 is completely obstructed by a green privacy fence from the patio wall to the diamond fence blocking the grotto path.
  • Essentially you could access the 3/4 patio, and only see into #4 (with limited viewing - of a probably empty grotto).
May 2009
  • Access via "south wall" entrance is not blocked.
  • Grotto 4 is no longer blocked (or at least less blocked), and wire "construction" fence is gone. My photo has a black with white faced ape (gibbon?) in this grotto.
  • Access to grottoes 3 - 1 blocked by diamond fence just beyond grotto 3/4 patio. Green privacy fencing is now gone, actually providing limited access and viewing to grotto 3 (and viewing beyond)
  • Grotto 3 is fully enclosed (no walls down to 4 or 2). High bamboo is in front of old viewing area, except close to patio, where I took the photos (this is where the green privacy fence was in Nov 2007).
  • Grotto 2 appears fully enclosed. The wall between grotto 2 & 3 exists in full. I can see part of the dividing wall between grotto 1 & 2 (by the patio between them). I can't say 100% that the entire wall between grottoes 1 & 2 is there, but with what I can see I assume it is, as per Mar 2007 photo.
Aug 2013 - I don't seem to have any photos of the grottoes. I think they were still there on this visit, but I have no documentation (photos or notes) to back that up.
Sep 2013 - all demolished & Lemur Island construction under way (based on satellite images)

Grotto 1 definitely existed, self contained until at least Mar 2007. I guess I can't speak definitively to it's existence beyond that.
Grotto 2, 3 & 4 definitely existed self contained at least until May 2009. Based on Feb 2013 satellite images, I'm willing to bet the walls between them remained until everything was demolished (but maybe access to multiple grottoes was granted some other way).
 
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Could you potentially upload any of the photos you have of the grottoes? I'd be very keen to see them.:)

I do have a shot of what I think is a gibbon (black ape with a white face) from a May 2009 visit, and maybe that's what I'm getting confused with.

Interesting. That may be one of the zoos Colobus Monkeys! Potentially some of their younger males (of whom were later sent to Canberra). I had heard they were displayed in the grottoes but never found any legitimate evidence of this.

Here's a photo of one of the gorilla grottoes from 2009. This looks to be the second exhibit from the main drive; and you can see a door which they seemingly had access through.

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Could you potentially upload any of the photos you have of the grottoes? I'd be very keen to see them.:)

Absolutely. They're all pretty much junker shots, taken and kept for nostelgia of one of my favorite places of the zoo when I was a kid (in the 80s); on a point and shoot at the time. It would have been nice to have my DSLR and super zoom for the 2009 ones, but I didn't upgrade to that until 2010...

March 6, 2007


November 17, 2007

June 6, 2008
Not mentioned in my previous post, the only shot of the grottoes I have from this visit - shot through the trees on Main Drive - some gorillas are in the grotto, which is probably grotto 2.


May 31, 2009

Interesting. That may be one of the zoos Colobus Monkeys! Potentially some of their younger males (of whom were later sent to Canberra). I had heard they were displayed in the grottoes but never found any legitimate evidence of this.

After cropping the photo and some googling, I think it's actually a
De Brazza's monkey. See what you think.


Here's a photo of one of the gorilla grottoes from 2009. This looks to be the second exhibit from the main drive; and you can see a door which they seemingly had access through.

e8b0dec796d140c6677ca1a7f1181128

Wow, that's a cool shot, thanks for posting. It looks like you shot that from old viewing area. As far as I can work out, the last time I actually walked through the whole grotto path was either 1999 or 2000 - so pretty cool that you managed to get this shot in 2009!
 
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i have a question did melbourne zoo have rhinos if did can i see a picture of it and when did they leave if they had pleasssssse im begging
 
i have a question did melbourne zoo have rhinos if did can i see a picture of it and when did they leave if they had pleasssssse im begging
Melbourne haven’t had rhinos for a long long time (if they have at all).

They didn’t have any back in the 70’s, but not sure about before that.
 
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