Howletts Wild Animal Park Howletts Wild Animal Park News 2023
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Lafone
Well-Known Member
It’s contradictory for someone to state they don’t want lions in captivity and then continue to breed them. Why aren’t the lions on contraception? A lion has died and two cubs have been produced. That doesn’t seem right.
With the recent trophy hunting breeding ban on lions in South Africa there are many lions who could be given a welcome home in a controlled reserve (none of this ‘rewilding’ is really ‘wild’) which would save lion lives and make a real difference. Instead of spending thousands shipping lions from a perfectly good facility in the U.K. they could put the money towards saving lions from South Africa who are now ‘surplus’ or indeed providing safe havens and protection for wild lions.
It’s sad to read this sort of news when so many zoos work hard to do the right thing for both captive and wild populations.
With the recent trophy hunting breeding ban on lions in South Africa there are many lions who could be given a welcome home in a controlled reserve (none of this ‘rewilding’ is really ‘wild’) which would save lion lives and make a real difference. Instead of spending thousands shipping lions from a perfectly good facility in the U.K. they could put the money towards saving lions from South Africa who are now ‘surplus’ or indeed providing safe havens and protection for wild lions.
It’s sad to read this sort of news when so many zoos work hard to do the right thing for both captive and wild populations.
It’s Damian Aspinall’s world. We just live in it
ZTL lists 282 zoos with 'generic' lions, 64 with Southeast African lions, 43 with Asiatic lions, 28 with Barbary lions, 27 with Southwest African lions with Kalahari lions, 1 with West African lions and 1 with Somali lions.
That's a lot of zoos and a lot of lions taking up a lot of space. While I don't agree with the idea of sending a captive lion to its death, why are there so many captive lions and why are they being bred if they are not part of a reintroduction programme? Many Zoochatters have stated that captives should be pure subspecies. If so, why are there are many zoos with 'generic' lions? If there are to be no reintroduction programmes, do zoos need to keep pure subspecies at the expense of species of other animals?
That's a lot of zoos and a lot of lions taking up a lot of space. While I don't agree with the idea of sending a captive lion to its death, why are there so many captive lions and why are they being bred if they are not part of a reintroduction programme? Many Zoochatters have stated that captives should be pure subspecies. If so, why are there are many zoos with 'generic' lions? If there are to be no reintroduction programmes, do zoos need to keep pure subspecies at the expense of species of other animals?
Lafone
Well-Known Member
It's worth recognising the educational and 'draw' value of keeping lions for visitors. I recognise that animals can be see as reproduction machines only, particularly by people who want other animals in their place. However there is a view (which I think is valid) that they have a greater value than that. Are they just 'taking up a lot of space' for everyone? I am not sure.
Do I think it's a good idea to breed lions in captivity if Aspinall states he is opposed to captivity though? No.
Do I think it's a good idea to breed lions in captivity if Aspinall states he is opposed to captivity though? No.
cerperal
Well-Known Member
Is this not just a complete misconception about zoos? Ultimately in the case of lions and the grand majority of currently ex-situ housed species their existence in a zoo is not to repopulate. They are there to provide a feasible, genetically controlled and above all else safe* group of animals in the event things go from bad to spectacularly awful in the wild. Of course, the more obvious other reason is because they draw visitors which is no bad thing. I would hazard for a lot of zoos keeping lions and other ABC species that would fall into your category allows for the keeping of other more needing species from income alone.
In this Aspinall is, as I am sure most of us agree, beyond delusional. His father and to a lesser (but admittedly noteworthy) extent him have produced some of the most successful and genetically viable breeding groups of these mammals, and he has elected to ship them off to Africa therefore completely negating the fact they ever existed. It doesn't matter if they successfully raise these 2 cubs, because ultimately they are going to die either through predation, starvation or summarily execution via farmer. And even if you choose to believe more urgent species deserve captivity more, I don't think anyone could see it as right to send animals to their inevitable deaths in the name of "rewilding". Except Aspinall, of course. This is helping nobody.
*Safe in the sense that they're unlikely to suffer a population crash, as opposed to large moggies.
If the ABC animals are kept to attract visitors, the vast majority of which are probably not interested in subspecies, zoos could keep a few generic examples and stop keeping pure subspecies. The chances are that wild habitats are going to still be destroyed in the future, partly due to increasing populations, mineral extraction and the production of certain foodstuffs. It is unlikely that zoos will be able to reintroduce large predators into the wild, especially animals that associate people with food. The term 'conservation' being used to have thousands of individuals of some large species and no individuals of some critically endangered smaller species is decidedly dubious. I like reading about zoos that breed rare animals and release them into the wild.
Surely zoos should be encouraging visitors to come to see endangered small animals rather than popular ABC species. I suggest that Zoochatters look at children's animal books and see that authors are trying to encourage children to be interested in XYZ species.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
I expect it would be dubious to use the conservation term like that if it was ever used by anyone in that way.
Zoos shouldn't be unbalanced and should encourage visitors to think about animals of all sizes and their habitats, the impact of people on the environment and indeed the need to save native wildlife in my view.
Tetradactyla
Active Member
I still remember mum doing the overnight experience at one of the Aspinall zoos many years ago, which came with a safari tour; one of her friends asked the tour guide the names of the rhinos they were looking at, and was rather loftily told, “oh, we don’t name the animals, we don’t want to treat them like pets.” 
Sadly, we know from experience how this one is likely to play out: lots of publicity of the little crowd-pleasers being cuddled and played with like domestic moggies, followed by the zoo quietly scrubbing any mention of them when the “re-wilding” inevitably goes tits-up…
Also, is there really nobody at this zoo more qualified to hand-rear two lion cubs than Aspinall Jr. and his daughter? Like, I don’t know, the keeping staff?
Sadly, we know from experience how this one is likely to play out: lots of publicity of the little crowd-pleasers being cuddled and played with like domestic moggies, followed by the zoo quietly scrubbing any mention of them when the “re-wilding” inevitably goes tits-up…
Also, is there really nobody at this zoo more qualified to hand-rear two lion cubs than Aspinall Jr. and his daughter? Like, I don’t know, the keeping staff?
Ah, but he literally has a lifetime of experience hand-rearing wild animals and playing with them as if they were household pets
for instance, see the following screenshot from a 1976 guidebook.....
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I still remember mum doing the overnight experience at one of the Aspinall zoos many years ago, which came with a safari tour; one of her friends asked the tour guide the names of the rhinos they were looking at, and was rather loftily told, “oh, we don’t name the animals, we don’t want to treat them like pets.”
Oh dear. Perhaps said employee should’ve done some background checks on their boss’s family history regarding gorillas before spouting holier-than-thou nonsense!
Several keepers have died after entering animal enclosuresAh, but he literally has a lifetime of experience hand-rearing wild animals and playing with them as if they were household pets
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I believe John had a similar lifetime-of-experience as well, did he not?Ah, but he literally has a lifetime of experience hand-rearing wild animals and playing with them as if they were household pets
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I recall that Howletts and Port Lympne were actually founded with the curious permission of animals being treated like pets by their keepers.
Most likely they will not actually be rewilded and will just live in a large fenced enclosure on private ground in something representing their native habitat. Nice PR, no rewilding, no conservation contribution and loads of money wasted.
and was rather loftily told, “oh, we don’t name the animals, we don’t want to treat them like pets.”
Strange statement as all their rhinos have names and always have had. Also many(even most) of their other animals are named and those names are frequently used on their publicity releases etc- they even used to have little black and white painted nameplates giving the names/sexes of the inhabitants of each enclosure e.g. in the gorillas, other primates and many other species too. I think those have probably mainly disappeared now but they certainly still have names e.g. the Lioness that just died.
I definitely recall there being a name + sex placard for their ratel 'Tyson' they used to have. I believe it also detailed his hybrid ancestry.
When it was angry, was it Tyson Fury or Tyson Furry?
Yes
ironically these cubs have some of the more diverse genetics of the entire UK collection and it would be worth while keeping them in situ. I’ll be very interested to see if he has the foresight to put the female on contraception before rewinding her in the proximity of three of her male relatives. Knowing Aspinall I’m sure he has some elaborate long term plan. For now here’s hoping for the best outcome for these cubs during such a precarious time
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