Columbus Zoo and Aquarium How can a zoo think a pregnant female is male?

The article I read said it was hard to tell back then. But then they are convinced the baby is female. Just thought that was funny after them saying it's hard to tell.
 
Moorhunhe said:
The article I read said it was hard to tell back then. But then they are convinced the baby is female. Just thought that was funny after them saying it's hard to tell.
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I tried to call Columbus zoo to get an answer about Sully. Like,who impregnated her? How many Blackbacks is she housed with? But nobody would return my call. She’s only 8 years old!‍♀️
 
A few gorillas have been wrongly sexed over the years:
Jersey Zoo’s N’Pongo and Basel’s Achilla were both originally thought to be male, both became breeding females.
Dian Fossey had a young ‘male’ in one of her study groups produce an infant:)
 
Steph said:
I’m not an expert,but I can tell a pregnant female from an 8 year old Blackback.
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No, you can't. You usually cannot visually tell a gorilla is pregnant. Even researchers in the congo who spend every single day watching wild troops don't know when babies are coming.

The zoo already did a good job explaining this in their post. Males do not begin to exhibit any visual signs of their sex until they're nearly a decade old. They reach sexual maturity at 5, though (she is not "only" 8). As mentioned in the post, along with on the website and at the zoo, she is part of Mac's troop. The males are Mac (1983), Kamoli (2013), and JJ (2016). Any of those three could be the father and they need to DNA test to find out.

The only way to check their genitals (before the males start to show) is under anesthesia, something that zoos only do if absolutely necessary because it's always risky and stressful for both the animals and humans. They had no reason to DNA test her for sex because they believed the zoo she came from. I'm not sure of how they confirmed the newborn is female, but it is a very quick DNA test to find out.

There is no reason to go after the zoo for this. She is under great care, as she always has been.
 
TinoPup said:
No, you can't. You usually cannot visually tell a gorilla is pregnant. Even researchers in the congo who spend every single day watching wild troops don't know when babies are coming.

The zoo already did a good job explaining this in their post. Males do not begin to exhibit any visual signs of their sex until they're nearly a decade old. They reach sexual maturity at 5, though (she is not "only" 8). As mentioned in the post, along with on the website and at the zoo, she is part of Mac's troop. The males are Mac (1983), Kamoli (2013), and JJ (2016). Any of those three could be the father and they need to DNA test to find out.

The only way to check their genitals (before the males start to show) is under anesthesia, something that zoos only do if absolutely necessary because it's always risky and stressful for both the animals and humans. They had no reason to DNA test her for sex because they believed the zoo she came from. I'm not sure of how they confirmed the newborn is female, but it is a very quick DNA test to find out.

There is no reason to go after the zoo for this. She is under great care, as she always has been.
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Well I guess I’m the first non expert that could tell a pregnant female from a male. Our keeper at the Woodland park zoo in Seattle said she could easily tell. I don’t see how asking the zoo a couple of questions is considered “going after them” but I’m going to ask anyway.
 
Steph said:
Well I guess I’m the first non expert that could tell a pregnant female from a male. Our keeper at the Woodland park zoo in Seattle said she could easily tell. I don’t see how asking the zoo a couple of questions is considered “going after them” but I’m going to ask anyway.
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You can't. This isn't a debate, it's a fact. Occasionally you can, especially if you know that animal is supposed to pregnant to begin with, but for most cases, it is impossible. You're bothering them by trying to ask questions they've already answered, repeatedly.
 
Gordon Mills here in U.K. was mis-sold a male gorilla as a female several decades ago
 
Males and females can be differentiated by DNA testing on hair samples. Non invasive procedure. Pregnancy by pregnancy test used by some humans on basis of HCG level.
 
I remember an old zoo vet joking that Zoo Berlin once sent a mis-gendered male gorilla to Stuttgart's great ape nursery. But hey, in times when human hominids can be non-binary, trans, gender-fluid etc., why shouldn't great apes have the same option? ;)
 
john said:
Males and females can be differentiated by DNA testing on hair samples. Non invasive procedure. Pregnancy by pregnancy test used by some humans on basis of HCG level.
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But both presume you're actively checking for this, and both cost time and at least some money. If you think you know an animal is male you won't pay for DNA testing, and you won't be testing their urine for pregnancy..!
 
TinoPup said:
You can't. This isn't a debate, it's a fact. Occasionally you can, especially if you know that animal is supposed to pregnant to begin with, but for most cases, it is impossible. You're bothering them by trying to ask questions they've already answered, repeatedly.
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I respect your opinion. But I think I will go with our keeper here in Seattle. I donate to Columbus zoo and have adopted a few animals. I don’t see any harm in asking them. Thank you for replying!
 
Steph said:
I respect your opinion. But I think I will go with our keeper here in Seattle. I donate to Columbus zoo and have adopted a few animals. I don’t see any harm in asking them. Thank you for replying!
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You are asking them questions they have already answered, repeatedly. This takes time away from their actual jobs.
 
I talked with the primate manager of a big gorilla collection yesterday. He was tactful but felt it was pretty surprising they missed it, Columbus Zoo has a lot of experience and currently hold about 14 gorillas, I guess 15 with the new kid. I don't know how many separate groups that is. However identifying a pregnant female from a chubby young male is not extremely easy, like humans some pregnant gorillas are more obvious than others. Personally I know very little about them except I once had an office in a gorilla building!
 
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