Paignton Zoo Paignton Zoo 2023

Visited 16.08.23

- extremely busy, the zoo has been turning to Facebook to announce that both the main and overflow car parks are full this week on a number of occasions.
Great for the zoos finances following a difficult run but wondered the portion of the visitors who were "free" children under their current scheme and the impact this has had. I'm sure someone more financially astute than I has crunched the numbers though.
Crowds not an issue anywhere with the exception of ape house where the queue to get in had stretched back to past the binturong enclosure for large portions of the day.

- nice to see baboon rocks in use one last time, however I must say that with it's closure and the closure of Crocodile Swamp and move of Bruce (the echidna) that hill is becoming a less and less attractive prospect!

- plenty of empty enclosures, signed to say they have development/redevelopment coming but nothing specific. Former Takin enclosure now home to an opportunistic domestic cat sunning itself on the rocks which had drawn one of the larger crowds of the day.

- despite warm weather just one giraffe outside of house (on hard standing), still feels a missed opportunity with all the space the elephants departure created. hopefully it will be better utilised by inhabitants in due course.

- baby orangutan and 3 baby red river hogs drawing big crowds. hogs putting on a great show up close to the fence and rough housing.

- lots of building work opposite Ostrich enclosure (formerly zebras??) with diggers working more or less all day. Heard from an onlooker that this is going to be a paddock for camel and he knew this as he had supposedly tendered for the contract to build it. Had a very brief search on here to see if this has been reported before but couldn't see it had.

- new entrance worked well in my opinion where the logical path progressions split people in three directions dispersing crowds somewhat.

- sloth remains "off exhibit", however though i didnt see it myself i presume this means the area immediately behind its on show exhibit and could plausibly be seen dependent on position.

- only (very minor) criticism of the day was around the centenary information. This seems much hyped on publicity on advertising and social media but was somewhat uninspiring in reality.

The gift shop had some nice centenary materials even if expensive (£7 for a pin badge!). For postcard collectors they have also reproduced some historic cards which might be of interest.

Within the zoo itself the main display was in a hut adjacent to the meerkats and play area near baboon rock and consisted of perhaps 6 walls of information and photos and 2 (1 working) video displays, no staff/volunteers to engage visitors etc and nothing of note in terms of historic items like old guides, or exhibit signage etc.

As much as this felt like a missed opportunity, i was also the only person in there for the 10 minutes or so and the average zoo visitor would likely have found it more than suffice or of no interest.
 
Skukuza said:
lots of building work opposite Ostrich enclosure (formerly zebras??) with diggers working more or less all day. Heard from an onlooker that this is going to be a paddock for camel and he knew this as he had supposedly tendered for the contract to build it. Had a very brief search on here to see if this has been reported before but couldn't see it had.
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New baboon enclosure! Covered quite extensively on here ;)
 
Where has Bruce moved to?

And excuse the stupid question, but is there a particular reason that the zebra can't go in the old elephant enclosure, and those nervous giraffes (seriously, they must be more anxious than Melman) can stay where they are?
 
Cat-Man said:
And excuse the stupid question, but is there a particular reason that the zebra can't go in the old elephant enclosure, and those nervous giraffes (seriously, they must be more anxious than Melman) can stay where they are?
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Because the new Zebra stalls and hardstanding are adjacent to the current Giraffe side enclosure, so they need to move over.
 
Cat-Man said:
Ah I see, thanks! Are the Zebra stuck in the hard standing at the moment, then?
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Almost all of the former giraffe paddock has been converted to hard standing for the zebras, which should be much better for their hooves than the lush grass on the hill. The giraffes have a narrow strip leading from the door of their house to the former elephant paddock, but so far they have only ventured a few steps into their intended space. I expect that introducing a bull giraffe would provide the stimulus the cows need to venture further.
On the other hand the fencing around the zebras has had to be reinforced to hold the mares, I suspect that a stronger permanent fence will be needed if they wish to bring in a stallion.
 
gentle lemur said:
Almost all of the former giraffe paddock has been converted to hard standing for the zebras, which should be much better for their hooves than the lush grass on the hill. The giraffes have a narrow strip leading from the door of their house to the former elephant paddock, but so far they have only ventured a few steps into their intended space. I expect that introducing a bull giraffe would provide the stimulus the cows need to venture further.
On the other hand the fencing around the zebras has had to be reinforced to hold the mares, I suspect that a stronger permanent fence will be needed if they wish to bring in a stallion.
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How about some tempting bunches of willow browse (or whatever their favourite is) positioned just a few feet further away down that strip each day? I'm sure they've tried luring them with browse already, but maybe not just tiny steps at a time?
 
Pertinax said:
How about some tempting bunches of willow browse (or whatever their favourite is) positioned just a few feet further away down that strip each day? I'm sure they've tried luring them with browse already, but maybe not just tiny steps at a time?
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This has be tried extensively.
 
Older giraffes are very conservative beings and hate to enter new spaces, especially narrow corridors and walking under a bridge.

In 2001, Prague built their current giraffe house and new outdoor pen, and moved its giraffe herd from the old house (its space today is used by elephants). The herd consisted of 10 cows (including highly pregnant) and calves and the breeding bull Šimon who was at that time already 16 or 17 years old. The move itself was long planned, time consuming but smooth. Combined team of Prague and Dvur Kralove giraffe keepers and vets moved all animals without any injuries to anybody.

However, bull Šimon spent the rest of his life (he died 23 years old) only inside the house and on the hard standing, never entering the large 5 ha grassy paddoc. He simply refused to enter the narrow corridor leading to it. His keepers tried everything imaginable over the years, using also advices coming from other zoos - to no awail. Nothing could change his mind, no treat, cow in heat or threatening noise. When they were desperate, they even used farm tractor with mounted flat board to simply push him through the corridor by brute force. Nothing helped.

I remmember one warm late summer afternoon, either 2001 or 2002, I was standing on the bridge at giraffe house and by chance Mr. Veselovský (retired Prague zoo director serving 1959-1988) stopped just near me and started to explain to the person he was with, how wrong the chosen design of the new giraffe enclosure is. He explained how conservative giraffes are, what they dislike and fear. And called the new zoo director very ugly names and not only due to the giraffe house.
 
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Jana said:
Older giraffes are very conservative beings and hate to enter new spaces, especially narrow corridors and walking under a bridge.

In 2001, Prague built their current giraffe house and new outdoor pen, and moved its giraffe herd from the old house (its space today is used by elephants). The herd consisted of 10 cows (including highly pregnant) and calves and the breeding bull Šimon who was at that time already 16 or 17 years old. The move itself was long planned, time consuming but smooth. Combined team of Prague and Dvur Kralove giraffe keepers and vets moved all animals without any injuries to anybody.

However, bull Šimon spent the rest of his life (he died 23 years old) only inside the house and on the hard standing, never entering the large 5 ha grassy paddoc. He simply refused to enter the narrow corridor leading to it. His keepers tried everything imaginable over the years, using also advices coming from other zoos - to no awail. Nothing could change his mind, no treat, cow in heat or threatening noise. When they were desperate, they even used farm tractor with mounted flat board to simply push him through the corridor by brute force. Nothing helped.

I remmember one warm late summer afternoon, either 2001 or 2002, I was standing on the bridge at giraffe house and by chance Mr. Veselovský (retired Prague zoo director serving 1959-1988) stopped just near me and started to explain to the person he was with, how wrong the chosen design of the new giraffe enclosure is. He explained how conservative giraffes are, what they dislike and fear. And called the new zoo director very ugly names and not only due to the giraffe house.
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Most interesting information, thankyou. I know it is very difficult to break such habits in some species once they become established. Though I wonder if in Paignton's case then, a different system could be devised to avoid the 'narrow strip' access? E.g. is there a reason they couldn't use the old Elephant side of the house- leading directly onto the paddock? Only because it hasn't been fitted out for use by Giraffe?
 
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Jana said:
I was standing on the bridge at giraffe house and by chance Mr. Veselovský (retired Prague zoo director serving 1959-1988)
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I remember many years ago reading a book titled 'Are Animals Different? by this gentleman. Very informative book on animal behaviour.
 
TNT said:
This has be tried extensively.
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It’s a really frustrating situation. The zoo have timed this with the giraffes welfare in mind - waiting for the zebra paddock construction and move to take place - yet it is not allowing visitors to see the herd as they are ‘housebound’ and the indoor viewing is closed. At a time when so many enclosures are closed or empty, I feel something else should have been done.
I think widening the gate entrance they want the giraffe to enter would help alongside gravelling some of the grass closest to the house. Perhaps the herd are unsure of the grass? Now that there is construction on the old zebra paddock, I can only envisage more disturbance. Obviously the keepers do not want to risk sedation to move them (practically impossible anyway), crate training would take too long for the whole herd, could they be safely pushed by decreasing the size of their indoor house using fencing? The stress this would cause is perhaps outweighed by the negative impact on their health by living in such cramped conditions at present?
 
TriUK said:
Obviously the keepers do not want to risk sedation to move them (practically impossible anyway), crate training would take too long for the whole herd, could they be safely pushed by decreasing the size of their indoor house using fencing? The stress this would cause is perhaps outweighed by the negative impact on their health by living in such cramped conditions at present?
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I'm not really clear what is trying to be achieved. Just for them to use the other paddock, or is the idea for them to live in the old Elephant side of the indoor house as well? Access from that to the outside might be more straight forward? The grass might be another issue- a surface they are unused to. And they evidently don't like narrow entrances- of any type.
 
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