Asian Elephants in Europe 2023

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Perseus6 said:
Normally Pairi Daiza has been put on a break to breed, however it wouldn't be the first time they don't follow the EEP. So I don't know. The cows you suggest and Po chin are all not genetically interesting and already plenty represented. The ones that would be interesting are Suzy, Sayang, Aye Chan May and Praya. However Praya is to old, and Sayang and Aye Chan May already have offspring so only Suzy is really interesting. But Po Chin is Chang's son so not really an interesting Bull to breed with further. Above all, there is a shortage of space for further family groups to hold.
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I wasn’t suggesting them, was just assuming that Pairi Daiza follows the EEP guidelines (breeding between age 8-25 and no crossbreeding between subspecies). Unless they have been changed.
 
Perseus6 said:
Normally Pairi Daiza has been put on a break to breed, however it wouldn't be the first time they don't follow the EEP. So I don't know. The cows you suggest and Po chin are all not genetically interesting and already plenty represented. The ones that would be interesting are Suzy, Sayang, Aye Chan May and Praya. However Praya is to old, and Sayang and Aye Chan May already have offspring so only Suzy is really interesting. But Po Chin is Chang's son so not really an interesting Bull to breed with further. Above all, there is a shortage of space for further family groups to hold.
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Praya is old and shows stereotypical behavior(standing on a point and strongly swinging her head-body side-to-side)(Chitana/Loxodonta africana/ as well). Sayang is a bornean pygmy elephant female(Manari too in Hannover) which (I think) makes her not suggested to breed.
 
Absolutely *spectacular* news, Rani at Leipzig has had a cow calf! This is a phenomenal occurrence for her, fingers crossed the little one thrives, and is finally the start of a stable matriline for poor Rani.

Sire of course is Voi Nam.

See more here
 
Hyak_II said:
Absolutely *spectacular* news, Rani at Leipzig has had a cow calf! This is a phenomenal occurrence for her, fingers crossed the little one thrives, and is finally the start of a stable matriline for poor Rani.

Sire of course is Voi Nam.

See more here
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Great news. Now swap Rani and her daughter with Temi in Munich. Matrilines should be more respected and zoos should slowly move towards avoiding putting unrelated cows together in my opinion
 
Elephant_fan said:
Great news. Now swap Rani and her daughter with Temi in Munich. Matrilines should be more respected and zoos should slowly move towards avoiding putting unrelated cows together in my opinion
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Totally with you but I don't see it happening. I have the feeling that the attitude is "okay, we understand that elephants have to live in matrilines, but leave our cow with us". It's kind of accepting the current situation as base instead of repairing the mistakes of the past. In Rani's case I think that she will leave Leipzig as it's obvious that it doesn't work but I have my doubts that this leads into fixing constellations.
 
Fixing the mistakes of the past is not as easy as it seems- you cant turn the time back. Temi has close bonds with the two females in Munich, and she was transferred out before her sisters Thuza and Pantha were born and has never met them. No one knows how these 3 would react towards each other. And Panang and Mangala would lose their friend. Bringing Temi back to her family has a lot of risks, and considering that Kewa does have Thuza and Pantha and Zaya, and Temi has close bonds with Panang and Mangala, I understand that this is deemed too risky. If Temi were socially isolated in Munich it might be different, but she isnt.
 
I agree strongly with Yassa, and was going to post something very similar.

While I agree, and hope, that Rani will eventually be transferred out with her daughter to another facility to start her own matriline, I don’t think that sending Temi to Leipzig or Rani to Munich are good ideas, and in fact, exactly the things you’re opposing in your post, Elephant_Fan. Along with all the points Yassa already listed, there’s absolutely no guarantee Rani would settle in with the other two cows in Munich, resulting in the need to either house two separate groups of cows, or transfer out the two non-breeders.
 
Of course any move contains a certain risk and those that are really working well don't need to be changed. Yet there are several patchwork groups that are not working and I don't have the feeling that the motivation is high to change it. Or in case of Rani everyone knows the situation is bad for her but the zoo thinks "okay, but we can present another cute baby if we keep her"...
 
In case of Rani, I am pretty sure they know in Leipzig that she has no future there, but the problem is there is no easy solution. She was pregnant, and transferring a pregnant female should only be done if absolutely necessary, and there is no guarantee that she will bond the females in another group. I feel the best option was indeed to keep her for the birth and in a year or two send her with her daugther to another zoo where the female elephants are not related and therefore more accepting of a stranger.
 
So apparently per social media (different Facebook groups) Thuza has attacked Rani so she has been separated but the calves have been integrating well.

I am taking that with grain of salt because of different reports but one thing for sure: the elephant situation at Leipzig needs to be addressed.
 
Maybe it was already announced but no zoo build a brand new elephant house to make them leave a few months/years later.

I guess the 2 old females are leaving to make space for a bachelor group which is the biggest priority at the moment. It need a bit of experience with husbandry and probably more complex installation.
 
As stated by @catfan in Chester Zoo Discussion and questions 2023 after 11 years at Chester Aung Bo is leaving to an unknown facility I would bet on Woburn, and perhaps Blackpool or Dublin.
Just reading the members magazine, it confirms Aung Bo will be leaving but not revealing where as yet
After 11 years here with us at Chester Zoo, we’ll soon be waving off Aung Bo, our 22-year-old male Asian elephant. In the wild, bull elephants naturally move between herds for breeding purposes, and the European Endangered Species Programme (EEP) we’re part of replicate this. We’ll be able to reveal where Aung Bo is moving to in a future issue, as preparations are still being made.

We’re always sad to see an animal leave the zoo. Although our team will miss Aung Bo, for the other elephants, it’s natural to see males drift in and out of family herds. So, when Aung Bo moves in with his new herd, we’ll actually be replicating elephant behaviour in the wild. And who knows? Maybe another male will drift into our herd in the future.
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Nice to hear! I have no doubt Chester is excited to receive a new bull once he departs as well, Indali is rapidly approaching 8 years old and given the losses they’ve suffered over the years, they’ll doubtlessly be eager to get her pregnant in short order.

Also, I wouldn’t be completely surprised to see Aung Bo head to Dublin, either. He could impregnate Yasmin and Anak before they depart for the states, and Samiya, at 9 years old, is at a perfect age to conceive her first calf.
 
He could also be transferred to Planckendael, which would be likely given the EEP's previous picks. Aung Bo having already been in breeding with descendants of Chieng Mai, he could continue to breed with this line at Planckendael.
 
Okavango said:
He could also be transferred to Planckendael, which would be likely given the EEP's previous picks. Aung Bo having already been in breeding with descendants of Chieng Mai, he could continue to breed with this line at Planckendael.
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Is not there present at the moment a bull elephant?
How is he doing?
 
Kanvar fails to reproduce with Planckendael females because he cannot assert himself as the dominant male. It should therefore be transferred to another park in the coming months. This could for example be a transfer towards Rotterdam where the group of females seems to appreciate the presence of young males as was the case with Fahim.

Since Planckendael's females are genetically important, the park is looking for a new male (proven breeder) in order to get them pregnant fairly quickly. In my opinion, Aung Bo is the ideal candidate who is a genetic match for females but is also a certified dominant male.

In my opinion for Dublin Zoo, it could be interesting to integrate a young male into the current group, a male such as Ludwig from Heidelberg could be an interesting candidate. Aung Bo would also be a possible alternative but Planckendael's situation seems more urgent especially compared to May Tagu, a very important female who has not had a baby since 2017.
 
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