Chi Chi’s final enclosure (from what I can tell from photos and videos) seemed to be an incredibly high standard for the time.
ZSL London Zoo What happened to London Zoos Last Pandas
- Thread starter Cat-Man
- Start date
As stated in earlier posts, ZSL have never had a “purpose built” Giant panda exhibit, although various Masterplans over the years have teased one. One example was to convert the Mappins into a “Szechuan Experience.” My recollections are only of the final pair housed on the Sobells.
Sadly, I don’t think Giant panda will ever return to ZSL (as much as I’d like them to) for a variety of reasons. I think the only place that could pull it off, and deal with everything that comes with it, is Chester.
Sadly, I don’t think Giant panda will ever return to ZSL (as much as I’d like them to) for a variety of reasons. I think the only place that could pull it off, and deal with everything that comes with it, is Chester.
And I highly doubt Chester is interested in pandas. After the Edinburgh pair leave I imagine it will be a good while before we see them return.
I wouldn’t totally discount “Panda Diplomacy,” although I suspect it’s debatable as to which side ultimately benefits!
The EAZA have recently proposed the phasing out of giant pandas from European zoos, so it may be that they become very rare (or possibly absent) on the entire continent.
I wouldn’t discount it either - I just don’t think anybody in Europe is willing to be wooed!
Interesting, although I doubt they really have that much control in this instance.
Reptile House
Well-Known Member
Excuse my ignorants, but what is/was "Sobell Pavilions" and where was it?
I would have thought that if they knocked down the Mapplin Terrace and the associated building around it, down the side, it would give enough space to house a couple of Panda. But sadly this will never happen.
I would have thought that if they knocked down the Mapplin Terrace and the associated building around it, down the side, it would give enough space to house a couple of Panda. But sadly this will never happen.
The Sobell Pavillion for Apes and Monkeys was the predecessor to, and stood on the site of, Gorilla Kingdom. Gorilla Kingdom retains some of the Sobells structural “skeleton.” In it’s prime, it held Gorilla, Orangutan AND Chimpanzees, along with a variety of other primates. The Orangs left as part of a cost-cutting measure due to the zoo’s financial crisis of the early 1990s. The last two chimps, Johnny and Koko, were transferred to Whipsnade when the Sobells were decommissioned.
I’ve no doubt certain ‘chatters can provide a full species list, of which I’d be interested to know!
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How much enforcement do the EAZA actually have over this though? It seems like it is a lot less than the AZA have from what I have heard, and I'm not too sure the zoos with pandas would be so willing to phase out such a big name species just because the EAZA is recommending a phase out. The current EAZA phase-outs aren't happening as smoothly as they could be anyhow, I believe some zoos are still breeding gaur.
If a zoo wants to keep giant pandas and EAZA don't want them to, their best option is probably to leave EAZA? I assume there is no EEP for giant panda anyway since China owns them all and any offspring?
FWIW I never really understood the using of the expression ‘pavilion’ when it comes to zoos.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
It's just an architectural term referring to the style of the building, whether in a zoo or not and like much of London and other older zoos, has historical significance. In the case of London the pavillions tend to be either Victorian or inspired by the Victorian style - garden buildings on big country estates with features taken from classical architecture (like the columns, overhangs or the spacing of the windows etc).
Reptile House
Well-Known Member
So, if I am reading this correctly then, where the Celebes Crested Macaques are is the old panda house?
Thanks for clarifying. Very interesting!
Unless the macaques have moved recently,their house and cage is exactly what the pandas had from Ching Ching and Chia Chia onwards
searching the media gallery for Sobell brings up some relevant imagery
Former Giant Panda enclosure in the Sobells
https://www.zoochat.com/community/m...-panda-exhibit-in-the-sobell-pavilion.134664/
Remaining Sobell Pavilion sign. This sign is still there (I saw it in August 2023), it is right after the zoo entrance to the left, on a wall to the right of the side of the aviary, behind some shrubs. It is more overgrown now, and mostly ignored, but still a piece of legible zoo history
https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/frozen-in-time.138449/
Former Giant Panda enclosure in the Sobells
https://www.zoochat.com/community/m...-panda-exhibit-in-the-sobell-pavilion.134664/
Remaining Sobell Pavilion sign. This sign is still there (I saw it in August 2023), it is right after the zoo entrance to the left, on a wall to the right of the side of the aviary, behind some shrubs. It is more overgrown now, and mostly ignored, but still a piece of legible zoo history
https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/frozen-in-time.138449/
In answer to Panthera1981's post about former animals kept in the Sobell Pavillion, International Zoo Yearbook 1976 (vol 16) has a list of speies kept between October 1971 and July 1975 (page 216).
Western Lowland Gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla) 2
Bornean Orang Utan (Pongo pygmaeus pygmaeus) 12
Chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) 8
Grey Gibbon (Hylobates moloch) 3
Diana Guenon (Cercopithecus diana diana) 2
Vervet Monkey (Chlorocebus pygerythrus) 2
Mandrill (Mandrillus sphinx) 4
Olive Baboon (Papio anubis) 2
Gelada (Theropithecus gelada) 6
Sooty Mngabey (Cerocebus atys) 6
Pig-tailed Macaque (Macaca nemestrina) 12
Black Spider Monkey (Ateles pansicus) 3
Long-haired Spider Monkey (Ateles belzebuth) 4
Brown Capuchin (Sapajus apella) 9
During this period the following births occured.
2 Chimpanzee
4(1 DNS) Vervet Monkey
3(1 DNS) Mandrill
2 Gelada
1 Sooty Mangabey
9(1 DNS) Pig-tailed Macaque
7(1 DNS) Brown Capuchin
In September 1974 a pair of Giant Panda (Ailuropoda melanoleuca) were housed in the Sobell.
I also remeber seeing Hamlyn's/Owl-faced Guenons (Cercopithecus hamlyni) and Campbell's Guenons (Cercopithecus campbelli) in the Sobell in the 1980s/90s.
Western Lowland Gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla) 2
Bornean Orang Utan (Pongo pygmaeus pygmaeus) 12
Chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) 8
Grey Gibbon (Hylobates moloch) 3
Diana Guenon (Cercopithecus diana diana) 2
Vervet Monkey (Chlorocebus pygerythrus) 2
Mandrill (Mandrillus sphinx) 4
Olive Baboon (Papio anubis) 2
Gelada (Theropithecus gelada) 6
Sooty Mngabey (Cerocebus atys) 6
Pig-tailed Macaque (Macaca nemestrina) 12
Black Spider Monkey (Ateles pansicus) 3
Long-haired Spider Monkey (Ateles belzebuth) 4
Brown Capuchin (Sapajus apella) 9
During this period the following births occured.
2 Chimpanzee
4(1 DNS) Vervet Monkey
3(1 DNS) Mandrill
2 Gelada
1 Sooty Mangabey
9(1 DNS) Pig-tailed Macaque
7(1 DNS) Brown Capuchin
In September 1974 a pair of Giant Panda (Ailuropoda melanoleuca) were housed in the Sobell.
I also remeber seeing Hamlyn's/Owl-faced Guenons (Cercopithecus hamlyni) and Campbell's Guenons (Cercopithecus campbelli) in the Sobell in the 1980s/90s.
That’s just insane! How do you house that many Orang on the Sobells?!?!?
Certainly the debate’s been had in the past that ZSL got rid of the wrong ape species when they were cutting costs.