Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2023

[Zorro]

With the resent news of Monarto zoo now joining the regions holders with a new 34 acre exhibit/complex is the best possible news for the Asian elephants in the region.
Having 3 open range zoos with herds is certainly a great sign for the future and the fact that the Perth bull is staying in the country is just wonderful news.

I believe once Melbourne's zoos animals are transferred and settled this herd appears to be the main hub and possibly the most important herd within the country, If they keep going on the track they are now going it will benefit the numbers overall over a long period of time.
Hopefully a good number of female calfs can be bred for the future.

I do hope once Taronga has sorted itself out with all the transfers it can start to focus on producing more calfs without the large gaps of resent years.

 

[Zoofan15]

With the resent news of Monarto zoo now joining the regions holders with a new 34 acre exhibit/complex is the best possible news for the Asian elephants in the region.
Having 3 open range zoos with herds is certainly a great sign for the future and the fact that the Perth bull is staying in the country is just wonderful news.

I believe once Melbourne's zoos animals are transferred and settled this herd appears to be the main hub and possibly the most important herd within the country, If they keep going on the track they are now going it will benefit the numbers overall over a long period of time.
Hopefully a good number of female calfs can be bred for the future.

I do hope once Taronga has sorted itself out with all the transfers it can start to focus on producing more calfs without the large gaps of resent years.

Werribee’s complex was originally designed to hold up to 40 elephants. The number of paddocks has been scaled back, reducing the groupings that can be held; but there’s the option to add in dividing fences down the line and so this number remains an achievable goal over the coming decades.

Werribee will likely be the breeding hub. I’m predicting five year birth intervals, with multiple cows breeding; compared to Monarto, who it’s appears will begin with a 1.1 pair of Putra Mas and Pak Boon. If so, Monarto will likely be the only facility to breed at natural birth intervals of three years.

Unless they’re willing to commit to a significant expansion, Dubbo will likely continue with larger birth intervals. It’s now been seven and five years since Thong Dee and Porntip gave birth; so if both conceived this year, they’d be looking at nine and seven year birth intervals (already quite sizeable). With this in mind, it’s my belief that Dubbo will allow all three cows to breed within the next 12 months - producing a cohort of calves circa 2026.

 

[Zorro]

Werribee’s complex was originally designed to hold up to 40 elephants. The number of paddocks has been scaled back, reducing the groupings that can be held; but there’s the option to add in dividing fences down the line and so this number remains an achievable goal over the coming decades.

Werribee will likely be the breeding hub. I’m predicting five year birth intervals, with multiple cows breeding; compared to Monarto, who it’s appears will begin with a 1.1 pair of Putra Mas and Pak Boon. If so, Monarto will likely be the only facility to breed at natural birth intervals of three years.

Unless they’re willing to commit to a significant expansion, Dubbo will likely continue with larger birth intervals. It’s now been seven and five years since Thong Dee and Porntip gave birth; so if both conceived this year, they’d be looking at nine and seven year birth intervals (already quite sizeable). With this in mind, it’s my belief that Dubbo will allow all three cows to breed within the next 12 months - producing a cohort of calves circa 2026.

I hope that MZ can fast track design and planning sooner rather than later.
I don't know if its possible if they could obtain a couple of import cows to breed to the Perth bull he's much to valuable not to have more of his bloodline with the population.
It appears a win win situation for everyone concerned.

 

[Zoofan15]

I hope that MZ can fast track design and planning sooner rather than later.
I don't know if its possible if they could obtain a couple of import cows to breed to the Perth bull he's much to valuable not to have more of his bloodline with the population.
It appears a win win situation for everyone concerned.

At this stage, I’m not too concerned. Putra Mas is 34 years old, so should be around for another couple of decades. The region has greatly under-utilised the founder cows we have; which are genetically valuable within an international context, considering North America and Europe have been breeding elephants for decades. Since we can’t obtain cows of equal or greater value from these regions, I’d rather see us make better use of what we have.

The death of Man Jai leaves Werribee without an unrelated bull to pair with Kati a decade from now; and Aiyara is similarly related to both her father and half brother. I’d say it’s likely Putra Mas will sire calves to these cows in the future; possibly swapping places with Luk Chai, who could then breed with Putra Mas’ daughters at Monarto.

 

[Zorro]

At this stage, I’m not too concerned. Putra Mas is 34 years old, so should be around for another couple of decades. The region has greatly under-utilised the founder cows we have; which are genetically valuable within an international context, considering North America and Europe have been breeding elephants for decades. Since we can’t obtain cows of equal or greater value from these regions, I’d rather see us make better use of what we have.

The death of Man Jai leaves Werribee without an unrelated bull to pair with Kati a decade from now; and Aiyara is similarly related to both her father and half brother. I’d say it’s likely Putra Mas will sire calves to these cows in the future; possibly swapping places with Luk Chai, who could then breed with Putra Mas’ daughters at Monarto.

I like to consider the unexpected just in case, as was the case of Melbourne zoo losing Bong-su, Since we don't have big numbers of elephants as to compare to both the USA and Europe I feel back up plans are needed just in case, Seeing how difficult and expensive it is to acquire them.
I hope everything goes smoothly but the unexpected can happen as with the former African elephant herd in the Toronto zoo in Canada, all was going well calfs were being born from the 1.8 imports until the bull passed away unexpectedly, and that was the end of any more breeding there.

 

[Zoofan15]

I like to consider the unexpected just in case, as was the case of Melbourne zoo losing Bong-su, Since we don't have big numbers of elephants as to compare to both the USA and Europe I feel back up plans are needed just in case, Seeing how difficult and expensive it is to acquire them.
I hope everything goes smoothly but the unexpected can happen as with the former African elephant herd in the Toronto zoo in Canada, all was going well calfs were being born from the 1.8 imports until the bull passed away unexpectedly, and that was the end of any more breeding there.

The worst thing is the uncertainty EEHV poses to the future of our regional population. To date there’s been two fatalities and it would be naive to assume these are the last. It’s a double edged sword where allowing the Werribee cows etc. to breed at regular intervals would produce more calves each decade, with a greater chance of achieving the number needed to ensure succession. This however, has to be balanced with avoiding unbalancing the succession plan.

A surplus of bull calves is a predicable problem in any elephant population; but Werribee will also be conscious to avoid a surplus of cows at each generation. Whether they would address this via designating certain cows as non-breeding; or liaise with North America to export branches of matrilineal lines. We’re a fair way off reaching this stage, but it’s not hard to imagine it’s a an eventuality with working continuing on an EEHV vaccine, which could be effective in a decade or two.

 

[Jambo]

I hope that MZ can fast track design and planning sooner rather than later.
I don't know if its possible if they could obtain a couple of import cows to breed to the Perth bull he's much to valuable not to have more of his bloodline with the population.
It appears a win win situation for everyone concerned.

I like to consider the unexpected just in case, as was the case of Melbourne zoo losing Bong-su, Since we don't have big numbers of elephants as to compare to both the USA and Europe I feel back up plans are needed just in case, Seeing how difficult and expensive it is to acquire them.
I hope everything goes smoothly but the unexpected can happen as with the former African elephant herd in the Toronto zoo in Canada, all was going well calfs were being born from the 1.8 imports until the bull passed away unexpectedly, and that was the end of any more breeding there.

Bong Su had severe arthritis as a result of his earlier accommodation at Melbourne so I don't think it's very fair to point to his death as 'unexpected'. His condition meant he wasn't likely to reach the ages other captive bulls tended to reach.

Putra Mas is a whole decade younger than Bong Su was at the time of his death, and in a much better condition (at least to what's been made public). Of course things can happen unexpectedly, but providing him with Pak Boon in the mean time would be feasible enough. He already has a daughter (Kanlaya) who'll be breeding soon too.

Werribee will soon have females who could be paired with Putra Mas down the line. I therefore think the best course would probably be to send Putra Mas down to Werribee in a decades time and then sending a bull from Werribee like Roi Yim in replacement.

 

[Zorro]

Bong Su had severe arthritis as a result of his earlier accommodation at Melbourne so I don't think it's very fair to point to his death as 'unexpected'. His condition meant he wasn't likely to reach the ages other captive bulls tended to reach.

Putra Mas is a whole decade younger than Bong Su was at the time of his death, and in a much better condition (at least to what's been made public). Of course things can happen unexpectedly, but providing him with Pak Boon in the mean time would be feasible enough. He already has a daughter (Kanlaya) who'll be breeding soon too.

Werribee will soon have females who could be paired with Putra Mas down the line. I therefore think the best course would probably be to send Putra Mas down to Werribee in a decades time and then sending a bull from Werribee like Roi Yim in replacement.

I was not splitting hairs as to the cause of death more of the case that they don't have to die from old age and losing animals at a relatively young age is a loss especially since we only have small numbers of elephants in this country.

 

[Jambo]

I was not slitting hairs as to the cause of death more of the case that they don't have to die from old age and losing animals at a relatively young age is a loss especially since we only have small numbers of elephants in this country.

It's certainly been tragic to lose a lot of our younger elephants since the programs introduction back in 2006; but I also think we've been fortunate to have all of our adults in mostly full health.

Considering we do have limited founders, it would be devastating to lose Putra Mas now, and I think the same can be said for Pak Boon. Losing two of the thai cows from the breeding program (both unrepresented within the region) has been quite a loss as we've been left with just five viable founders; and we could be down to just four if Pak Boon isn't bred from asap.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's certainly been tragic to lose a lot of our younger elephants since the programs introduction back in 2006; but I also think we've been fortunate to have all of our adults in mostly full health.

Considering we do have limited founders, it would be devastating to lose Putra Mas now, and I think the same can be said for Pak Boon. Losing two of the thai cows from the breeding program (both unrepresented within the region) has been quite a loss as we've been left with just five viable founders; and we could be down to just four if Pak Boon isn't bred from asap.

The loss of Kulab will certainly be profound in the long term as Werribee’s sizeable herd is descended from just two founder cows going forward. I know the staff were as pleased as we were that Num Oi at least produced a daughter, offering more certainty her line will continue, hopefully compounded by the birth of additional females to this line.

Bong Su had severe arthritis as a result of his earlier accommodation at Melbourne so I don't think it's very fair to point to his death as 'unexpected'. His condition meant he wasn't likely to reach the ages other captive bulls tended to reach.

Kashin at Auckland Zoo was similarly riddled with arthritis and euthanised at the age of 41 years as a result. It appears to be a common issue around the world (Thi Hi Way at Chester); and an example of how far elephant husbandry has come.

Cows like Burma and Permai haven’t be subjected to standing in concentrate elephant houses and are entering their senior years in relatively good health, which should stand them in good stead for a long and healthy life. The elephants housed in the open range zoos will arguably fare even better.

 

[Zorro]

It's certainly been tragic to lose a lot of our younger elephants since the programs introduction back in 2006; but I also think we've been fortunate to have all of our adults in mostly full health.

Considering we do have limited founders, it would be devastating to lose Putra Mas now, and I think the same can be said for Pak Boon. Losing two of the thai cows from the breeding program (both unrepresented within the region) has been quite a loss as we've been left with just five viable founders; and we could be down to just four if Pak Boon isn't bred from asap.

I believe the future lays on the most part with the Melbourne/Werribee herd depending how things pan out long term and the number of female calfs produced will set the tone overall for the future of elephants in the country.

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe the future lays on the most part with the Melbourne/Werribee herd depending how things pan out long term and the number of female calfs produced will set the tone overall for the future of elephants in the country.

Decades from now, there’s even the potential to split off branches from the Werribee herd. Dokoon now has two daughters and in time, may produce a third. It would certainly be acceptable to transfer out one of those daughters if she in turn has a daughter to go with; and Dokkoon is left with adequate representation in the herd.

Of course, all this depends on the reproductive success of her daughters in turn. Mali’s first calf is a male, but she’s still young and has her whole reproductive life ahead of her.

 

[Jambo]

Decades from now, there’s even the potential to split off branches from the Werribee herd. Dokoon now has two daughters and in time, may produce a third. It would certainly be acceptable to transfer out one of those daughters if she in turn has a daughter to go with; and Dokkoon is left with adequate representation in the herd.

Of course, all this depends on the reproductive success of her daughters in turn. Mali’s first calf is a male, but she’s still young and has her whole reproductive life ahead of her.

I can certainly see a scenario of some of the younger Werribee born cows heading over to Monarto in 15-20 years time. Monarto will otherwise be fully reliant on daughters of Pak Boon to continue their herd, and would therefore be welcoming of any additional, unrelated females in the future.

 

[Zorro]

Decades from now, there’s even the potential to split off branches from the Werribee herd. Dokoon now has two daughters and in time, may produce a third. It would certainly be acceptable to transfer out one of those daughters if she in turn has a daughter to go with; and Dokkoon is left with adequate representation in the herd.

Of course, all this depends on the reproductive success of her daughters in turn. Mali’s first calf is a male, but she’s still young and has her whole reproductive life ahead of her.

This is where Monarto's new 34 acre complex can shine it certainly opens up more possibilities for mixing and matching in the future.
One of the main reasons that the huge Rockton herd in Canada success apart from all the excellent care is the large number of female calfs produced it certainly was a big plus.

 

[Zoofan15]

I can certainly see a scenario of some of the younger Werribee born cows heading over to Monarto in 15-20 years time. Monarto will otherwise be fully reliant on daughters of Pak Boon to continue their herd, and would therefore be welcoming of any additional, unrelated females in the future.

This is where Monarto's new 34 acre complex can shine it certainly opens up more possibilities for mixing and matching in the future.
One of the main reasons that the huge Rockton herd in Canada success apart from all the excellent care is the large number of female calfs produced it certainly was a big plus.

It’d be great to expand the diversity of Monarto’s herd. Pak Boon will be the main breeding cow for the foreseeable and her family line will become the dominant force. This won’t necessarily be an issue as the Werribee herd will provide a pool of several cows to choose from; allowing the integration of a couple that will assimilate well into Monarto’s herd (lower ranking so as not to compete etc).

 

[Zorro]

I can certainly see a scenario of some of the younger Werribee born cows heading over to Monarto in 15-20 years time. Monarto will otherwise be fully reliant on daughters of Pak Boon to continue their herd, and would therefore be welcoming of any additional, unrelated females in the future.

@Jambo Would you know at what stage the new elephant complex has reached to this point?

 

[Jambo]

@Jambo Would you know at what stage the new elephant complex has reached to this point?

Fencing has been implemented and I believe they're currently working on the foundations for the barns, the waterhole and the pathways. Construction is tracking at the right pace (for now), and elephants should be looking to move within the next ten to twelve months assuming everything else goes to plan.

 

[Zorro]

Fencing has been implemented and I believe they're currently working on the foundations for the barns, the waterhole and the pathways. Construction is tracking at the right pace (for now), and elephants should be looking to move within the next ten to twelve months assuming everything else goes to plan.

Having two brand new open range elephant complexes basically being built not too far apart is going to be a major boost for them not only in the long term and for the overall population. I just wished they had done this in the beginning and saved a lot of time trouble and money in the process.

 

[Zoofan15]

Having two brand new open range elephant complexes basically being built not too far apart is going to be a major boost for them not only in the long term and for the overall population. I just wished they had done this in the beginning and saved a lot of time trouble and money in the process.

TOTE exhibit was the most advanced exhibit in the region when it opened in 2003, but I agree that from the outset, there was talk of transferring the herd to Werribee - culminating in the 21ha complex.

Similarly, Taronga would have been better off housing the breeding herd at Dubbo. I have no doubt the success of the breeding programme surpassed all expectations, but the two herds soon outgrew what were only ever adequate exhibits for their time.

 

[Jambo]

TOTE exhibit was the most advanced exhibit in the region when it opened in 2003, but I agree that from the outset, there was talk of transferring the herd to Werribee - culminating in the 21ha complex.

Similarly, Taronga would have been better off housing the breeding herd at Dubbo. I have no doubt the success of the breeding programme surpassed all expectations, but the two herds soon outgrew what were only ever adequate exhibits for their time.

Melbourne's herd was always going to be moved to Werribee; it was rather inevitable. I think many did expect it to happen much later than it has, but reality has come quite quickly and both Melbourne (and Taronga) have experienced great success with no major setbacks to the breeding program as of yet.

Having two brand new open range elephant complexes basically being built not too far apart is going to be a major boost for them not only in the long term and for the overall population. I just wished they had done this in the beginning and saved a lot of time trouble and money in the process.

The thai elephants and the subsequent calves were massive crowdpullers. Especially in Taronga's case, I don't think Dubbo would've been able to get anything close to the crowds Taronga was able to pull as a result of the successful breeding.

Mali was a celebrity at Melbourne when she was first born. I remember lining up for hours waiting to see Mali and Ongard when they were little and in comparison, melbourne's latest trio of calves haven't gained half the attention.

An elephant calf was a novelty at the time, but I think the region's success has came back to bite as most Victorians have now seen an elephant calf. The decrease of hype means Melbourne can now afford to transfer their herd over to Werribee; and create a new novelty over there (with the complex) and ensure visitors will still be keenly interested in the elephant herd.

Interesting thinking; and I agree, it would've been much easier to send the herds to the open range zoos in the first place, but both Taronga and Melbourne have benefited heavily from the time they've had with the breeding herds since the thai cows first arrived back in 2006.