OH! My apologies for misunderstanding.
North American African Elephant Reproduction
- Thread starter Elephant Enthusiast
- Start date
OH! My apologies for misunderstanding.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
I know! Zero calves from Msholo!
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Which is quite strange as I saw a video of him mating with one of the females in 2013
https://youtube.com/shorts/xYt_3HpC0xE?si=bAHd1t7rBtkXNSd_
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Must have not been a successful mating then.
right, which San Diego doesn’t have which @PSO has suggested as recently as less than a year ago they don’t. Have. This a quote he said in the North American African Population thread
“Whelp.....SDZ is more lucky, than knowledgeable at breeding elephants.i hope the best with Musi for him to breed its going to take a very good African program for that to happen.” San Diego PSO stated is more lucky than knowledgeable at breeding elephants, they don’t have a good African Elephant breeding program according to PSO, and this is not to only credible zoochat user that has supported this argument. I expect the worst from San Diego when it comes to their luck of breeding elephants.
Yazziel
Well-Known Member
I will mention Kianga was introduced to Maclean before Nadirah for breeding, she is a strong candidate. The females from Zoo Tampa are also strong candidates. My last visit in June of this year I spoke to the keepers on the elephant tour and they are hoping for calves in 2025. Mbali was cycling at the moment of my visit and had mated with Sdula as for Matjeka she hadn’t been tested to see if she is pregnant or cycling but Sdula was showing interest in her as well.
That’s really good to know about ZooTampa, as they have a really valuable elephant herd genetic wise. I thought Kianga wasn’t successful in getting pregnant when she was introduced to Maclean prior to Nadirah. However I also don’t know how long Kianga was with Maclean either. Do you know how long they were put together?
Yazziel
Well-Known Member
I don’t know, just that they have been together for breeding. I’m not confirming that she is pregnant but is a strong candidate that she might be and with 1 unknown pregnancy left for this year we will found out soon enough if it is Kianga.
There should be 2 more calves due in 2023. I guess will see how the rest of the year goes. We do have 2 months left.
Is that information solely based off of Dennis Pate's press conference in the spring?
yes. Why do you ask?
How reliable is his information? I'm sure he was aware of other pregnancies, some are disclosed in Breeding and Transfer Plans and Callee was used for AI multiple times. However, he surely wasn't informed of every pregnancy in the country, zoos that don't announce until birth typically hold their cards close to their chest. I don't know, but maybe we've read too far into the numbers. I would hate for these calves to never arrive, but who knows, just my two cents.
he said between 2022-2023 that Omaha will be born to half of the African elephants born in the United States. He said six were projected to be due in 2023. This included in that 6 the 2 calves that were born at Omaha this year, and most likely the calf born at Dallas this year and the calf born at Indianapolis this year. I’ve heard from many they find him reliable, but he’s also retired now and that was over a year ago. I guess time will tell in seeing how it plays out. I guess there is also a possibility that if might not be true too, but we also still have a couple months before 2023 is officially over so time will tell.
Just to second, San Diego's initial success has indeed been largely due to a lot of good luck. They lucked out with Mabu being a spectacular breeder, and in fact have done very, very little in regards to the reproductive management of their animals beyond tracking cycles. If they were genuinely concerned and proactive about things, their younger captive bred cows would likely both be on their second calves by now.
Mabu is just a super bull, lol.
Also Tooth and Musi are...not quite the same, in terms of behaviour. Tooth is a hyper dominant and somewhat aggressive bull, but a proficient natural breeder. He's very sure of himself and knows exactly where he will be in a given social hierarchy (the top). Despite his somewhat unpleasant attitude though, even socially savvy cows like the Wuppertal group respect him enough to be dominated and submit to him for breeding. He definitely did need to get a tuneup (which his wuppertal visit did achieve), as he was quite the ass before hand, though.
Musi is...not implicitly either of those things. He's socially stunted, for lack of better words, being equal doses of both socially belligerent and cowardly. He's also not yet proven himself out as a natural breeder, however he does at least seem to have the knowledge and ability to naturally breed a cow. Part of this is undoubtedly age (only being in his late teens, as opposed to Tooths late 20's), but while Tooth was receptive enough to socially strong cows not putting up with him being a bully, Moose just seems to have shut down and now refuses contact.
Mabu is just a super bull, lol.
Also Tooth and Musi are...not quite the same, in terms of behaviour. Tooth is a hyper dominant and somewhat aggressive bull, but a proficient natural breeder. He's very sure of himself and knows exactly where he will be in a given social hierarchy (the top). Despite his somewhat unpleasant attitude though, even socially savvy cows like the Wuppertal group respect him enough to be dominated and submit to him for breeding. He definitely did need to get a tuneup (which his wuppertal visit did achieve), as he was quite the ass before hand, though.
Musi is...not implicitly either of those things. He's socially stunted, for lack of better words, being equal doses of both socially belligerent and cowardly. He's also not yet proven himself out as a natural breeder, however he does at least seem to have the knowledge and ability to naturally breed a cow. Part of this is undoubtedly age (only being in his late teens, as opposed to Tooths late 20's), but while Tooth was receptive enough to socially strong cows not putting up with him being a bully, Moose just seems to have shut down and now refuses contact.
Yes that would be the case as he's apart of the European population - currently located at the Rhenen Zoo.
now that makes since. I don’t pay attention to Europe much. I know their elephant breeding is MUCH better than the United States.
I second this. I think unreasonable to assume he wouldn't have been aware of all pregnancies.
In saying that, the information would be mostly accurate if not fully, so would still be a good reference. I think we can assume we'll have at least the amount of pregnancies he mentioned (barring any unfortunate events taking place).
One thing to keep in mind is gestation, as it can vary from individual to individual and so can therefore be hard to predict exactly when a cow will give birth; especially if it was a natural conception. I wouldn't be dismayed if we get to new years and we haven't had all of the births Pate mentioned yet; it's merely more of an estimate more than anything.
I agree with this to an extent. I say extent because Dennis wasn’t entirely wrong in that we did have calves born outside of Omaha this year (more than I remember in my lifetime being born per year in the United States), and fortunately 2024 and 2025 both look like really good years for African Elephant reproduction. Looking back though I have to admit I’m curious not only now where Dennis got that information from, but also how accurate it is itself.
Sure, it would be nice to have 2 more calves due this year, but this year with African Elephant births in the United States is way better than it has been in like forever.
Pate would've likely gotten the information he mentioned from the EEP itself. Not sure where the studbook coordinator/s are located, but considering the large role Omaha has played into the recent breeding program I'd imagine Pate would be involved in some way or another.