Which camel species should most zoos keep?

TinoPup said:
Not sure what you mean by this? The wild Bactrian herd, C. ferus, genetically doesn't seem to be the ancestors of the domestic Bactrian. As @TeaLovingDave stated, the domestic Dromedary much more resembles the wild Bactrian except for the number of humps.
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Exactly.
There's only one wild camel. It's not the domestic Bactrian, it's not the Dromedary, and the wild Bactrian is sadly not in zoos.
It is a bit ridiculous to argue the wild Bactrian doesn't look anything at all like a Dromedary, though, IMO. All three are camels.
 
Guanaco have been pretty rare in the UK for a while now, it's mostly smaller zoos with them still. Honestly I don't think I've seen them since they left Chester and that was close to 15 years ago at this point! Certainly, Vicuña is the more common of the two
 
Great Argus said:
Furthered by the fact the AZA prefers facilities to hold Bactrian, and has loosely managed Bactrian until recently. Dromedary on the other hand is neither recommended nor monitored.



Most likely a combination of no interest and thus no space.
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Correct me if I'm wrong; aren't domestic Bactrians in AZA zoos managed by an SSP?
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Bactrian camels actually resemble the wild Bactrian though, Dromedaries do not. I'd argue that if you're going to use a domesticated species in place of the real thing, at least choose one that looks like the species they're standing in for.

I would also like to note that over here in the United States, it's Bactrian camels who are uncommon in comparison to Dromedary camels. Be it in zoos or the private trade, you're a great deal more likely to encounter Dromedaries casually. You have to go looking if you want to see Bactrians.
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In your defense, I think Bactrians are rarer in the exotic animal trade. Dromedaries seem to be the preferred species for rides, nativity scenes, petting zoos, movies, and everything else that isn't an AZA zoo etc.
 
La Cucaracha said:
In your defense, I think Bactrians are rarer in the exotic animal trade. Dromedaries seem to be the preferred species for rides, nativity scenes, petting zoos, movies, and everything else that isn't an AZA zoo etc.
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Yes, that is the point I was trying to make. My only mistake was including the mention of zoos in my initial reply.
 
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La Cucaracha said:
Exactly.
There's only one wild camel. It's not the domestic Bactrian, it's not the Dromedary, and the wild Bactrian is sadly not in zoos.
It is a bit ridiculous to argue the wild Bactrian doesn't look anything at all like a Dromedary, though, IMO. All three are camels.
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I'm still not sure what you're trying to say here? Also, I never said the wild Bactrian doesn't look anything like a Dromedary?
 
TinoPup said:
I'm still not sure what you're trying to say here? Also, I never said the wild Bactrian doesn't look anything like a Dromedary?
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I agree with Dave, and I find it moot to use domestic Bactrians specifically in place of wild Bactrians at a zoo.
 
Also, how does breeding domestic Bactrian camels help propagate wild Bactrian camels any more than Dromedaries?
 
I think it's a bit off the topic, but I'll tell you about the situation in Korea that I can talk about.

It may not be realistic for most of the zoochatters here, but there are only two bactrian camels left in South Korea, the male "Coco" at Seoul Zoo and the female "Millebong" at Everland. But Coco was born in 2011, and Millebong was born in 2000, so they are both quite old. Maybe that's why, Everland has disposed two young dromedaries named "Dan-i" and "Bong-i", near Millebong from March of this year, as if they preparing for the death of Millebong.

Even though Mongolia, the birthplace of the bactrian camels, is close by, the situation has become like this is because of Korea's very strict quarantine system of Artiodactyl to block foot and mouth diseases. This is also the first reason for the decline in giraffes, antelopes, buffaloes, and bison in Korean zoos. Actually, I think it's better not to bring in more animals, that will die without breeding properly due to the madness of bad visitors.


Anyway, Now the dromedaries and alpacas are mainstream camels of Korean zoos. The reason is simple. This is because they can be imported from Australia, where there is no foot-and-mouth disease, and the most visitors are thinks, "Alpaca is cute!"

Public zoos operated through taxes are hesitate to let secure new animals, but private zoos, which aim to make money quickly, wanted alpacas that could attract visitors' response. It is thought that the alpaca population has increased along with the number of private zoos that began to increase in the mid-to-late 2010s. So, with alpacas readily available in Korea, some public zoos have also begun securing alpacas.

Guanaco and llamas are thought to be less popular because of their ambiguous look between a humped camel and an alpacas. I could saw many visitors were mistaken them for alpacas, also they often knew the llama, but guanaco didn't.
 
In Czech republic/Czechoslovakia - Bactrians were traditionally the most abundant camel species. Main reason was their popularity in local circuses. For decades, Bactrians were even used as unnoficial currency by circuses to trade other animals/trucks/equipment etc. between themselves.

Today, legislation was passed and local circuses are prohibited to use any wild species anymore. Most circuses ceased their existence. Those that still survive can keep only domestic species. So bactrians still survive in smaller numbers than previously in circuses but majority is kept in private hands.

In 1950s, Prague zoo was involved (as one of only few approved clearing points in animal trade between West and East) in transits of hundreds domestic Bactrians on their way from Central Asia to western Europe. They came on trains from Russia, got fed / sheltered / quarantined for some time by zoo staff/vets and then sent further on their way. I had seen old photos of "caravane" of many dozens being led on foot from main railway station to the zoo through the city from that time.

Dromedaries never got popular around here. Novadays kept at few private farms that dabble into tourism. But even unlicensed private petting zoos that pop up by dozends in last few years always prefer Bactrians over dromedaries.

Wild Bactrians are kept and bred in Mongolia in captivity. Prague zoo recently sent some money to build additional pens because captive herd grew over their current capacity. Import into Europe would be complicated because of vet requirements for hoofstock from that region into EU. Drawing of planned general reconstruction of Bactrian enclosure in Prague zoo has written "wild camel" over it but I honestly doubt it will happen (I mean the reconstruction will happen just that no import will materialise).

Lamas and recently alpacas are very popular in private hands. Vicunjas in zoos keep their own. Guanacos seem to be on a slow way out but hopefully they will persist.
 
Fallax said:
Guanaco have been pretty rare in the UK for a while now, it's mostly smaller zoos with them still. Honestly I don't think I've seen them since they left Chester and that was close to 15 years ago at this point! Certainly, Vicuña is the more common of the two
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Recommend a trip to Beale park if you want to see Guanaco - a very nice herd and the new youngsters are lovely. I didn’t realise they were there until I visited as thought they had llamas, I didn’t see them and then someone said they were guanaco so I kept a far more careful eye out next visit! - well worth a trip if you want to see them.

Camel wise I don’t mind I enjoy them anyway. I’ve also seen wild Bactrians in Mongolia, which was simply ace.
 
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Wisp O' Mist said:
Bactrian camels actually resemble the wild Bactrian though, Dromedaries do not. I'd argue that if you're going to use a domesticated species in place of the real thing, at least choose one that looks like the species they're standing in for.

I would also like to note that over here in the United States, it's Bactrian camels who are uncommon in comparison to Dromedary camels. Be it in zoos or the private trade, you're a great deal more likely to encounter Dromedaries casually. You have to go looking if you want to see Bactrians.
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Really? I've seen Bactrian camels MUCH more often. Even some of the little North Dakota zoos have them. They're well adapted to cold climates.
 
Dassie rat said:
The question assumes that most zoos should keep a camel. Why?
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A good question - I only remember seeing camels at three zoos to date, and two of them no longer have any camels. Despite being highly recognizable, camels seem to be falling out of favor in NA zoos. Bactrian used to be an SSP, and now they've fallen to just being a monitored species. Most zoos that still have them tend to be northern facilities housing Bactrian as a winter-hardy attraction.
Why there has been a relative decline in holdings I've no idea, maybe just decreased interest in housing a large, potentially aggressive species that has little conservation value. The best arguments for why zoos should hold them are probably conservation awareness for the wild counterparts and that camels are pretty hardy species tolerant of temperature extremes, able to be exhibited in cold/hot temperatures that would limit many other hoofstock species' outdoor access.
 
Dassie rat said:
I don't remember any zoo having signs mentioning wild Bactrian camels
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I don't either - I'd be curious to hear whether anyone has seen the wild vs domestic distinction on any signage or heard it from staff/volunteers working with the camels or educating about them. If zoos aren't mentioning it, is there any conservation merit to keeping either species of camel?
 
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