Zoo/Aquarium Hot Takes

There was a lot of heavy discussion about it when Bibi was pregnant the second time, especially, and after the birth, if you want to dig up that thread (threads?).
Definitely going to go dig around those threads to see if I can find anything! If not, chalk it up to my brain mixing up this site with other sites, it feels like Cincinati can "do no wrong" when it comes to hippos when other social media is concerned. I do wonder how their hippo care would be viewed if Fiona had been born healthy/full term.
 
Definitely going to go dig around those threads to see if I can find anything! If not, chalk it up to my brain mixing up this site with other sites, it feels like Cincinati can "do no wrong" when it comes to hippos when other social media is concerned. I do wonder how their hippo care would be viewed if Fiona had been born healthy/full term.
I certainly do think most (if not all) of us on here believe Cincy's hippo enclosure is inadequate for the hippos they have.

Here's a thread you may be interested in taking a look at:
Cincinnati Zoo Hippos [Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden]
 
I certainly do think most (if not all) of us on here believe Cincy's hippo enclosure is inadequate for the hippos they have.

Here's a thread you may be interested in taking a look at:
Cincinnati Zoo Hippos [Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden]
...oof-
I hadn't been following the specifics of Cinci's hippo situation but from everything in the thread this entire situation is just nasty and dangerous. I saw only a few people defending the zoo here, and it was more of a "trust the zoo" things vs "the exhibit is fine", but regardless at least people are aware because yikes...
 
...oof-
I hadn't been following the specifics of Cinci's hippo situation but from everything in the thread this entire situation is just nasty and dangerous. I saw only a few people defending the zoo here, and it was more of a "trust the zoo" things vs "the exhibit is fine", but regardless at least people are aware because yikes...
I'm honestly very very glad nothing bad has come of this situation. Certainly could've turned out much worse. Obviously Cincy's not of the storm yet, but the worst has been avoided.
 
I should probably explain what I meant. Denver and Philadelphia are both good zoos but the fact that I've seen so many people rank them in the top ten zoos in America. Denver has a lot of good exhibits such as Predator ridge, their tropics building, elephant passage, etc but a huge chunk of it is outdated paddocks along with the emerald forest and monkey island, and sea lions needs a lot of work and I personally thought the EDGE was undersized. As for Philadelphia without Zoo360 it would be the epitome of the average zoo as while it has its positives I find The Endangered Animal Conservation Center, African Plains, Outback, Reptile House, and Northern exhibits to be lackluster. So in all BOTH ARE GOOD, but far from top ten material.
 
I should probably explain what I meant. Denver and Philadelphia are both good zoos but the fact that I've seen so many people rank them in the top ten zoos in America. Denver has a lot of good exhibits such as Predator ridge, their tropics building, elephant passage, etc but a huge chunk of it is outdated paddocks along with the emerald forest and monkey island, and sea lions needs a lot of work and I personally thought the EDGE was undersized. As for Philadelphia without Zoo360 it would be the epitome of the average zoo as while it has its positives I find The Endangered Animal Conservation Center, African Plains, Outback, Reptile House, and Northern exhibits to be lackluster. So in all BOTH ARE GOOD, but far from top ten material.

I haven't seen anyone rank Philly in a top ten, even a top twenty in a long time, unless they know absolutely nothing about zoos. You can't really say "without Zoo360" though, as that's something they created and covers so many areas of the zoo.
 
Definitely going to go dig around those threads to see if I can find anything! If not, chalk it up to my brain mixing up this site with other sites, it feels like Cincinati can "do no wrong" when it comes to hippos when other social media is concerned. I do wonder how their hippo care would be viewed if Fiona had been born healthy/full term.
That makes sense as Fiona's publicity has made a lot of others view Cincinnati as having gone above and beyond - it helps they did a much better job publicizing their efforts to help her online than many other zoos do when they help their own animals behind the scenes. Transparency can make a big difference. The joke on zoochat is that Cincinnati is relying on Fiona to save their image after a few previous sources of negativity publicity and the current awful state of the exhibit is enhanced by the fact they can't get rid of her now.

If it helps for future reference, there is pretty much not a single hippopotamus exhibit in a traditional zoo setting that is really well-liked on zoochat. Even those in the top ten are subject to frequent criticism. They're a lot like '90s polar bear exhibits -- all water, not enough land, not big enough to rotate larger animals.

I should probably explain what I meant. Denver and Philadelphia are both good zoos but the fact that I've seen so many people rank them in the top ten zoos in America. Denver has a lot of good exhibits such as Predator ridge, their tropics building, elephant passage, etc but a huge chunk of it is outdated paddocks along with the emerald forest and monkey island, and sea lions needs a lot of work and I personally thought the EDGE was undersized.
Does "people" mean zoochatters or the usual travel and entertainment magazine lists that are regularly dunked on here? That makes a big difference. Genuinely asking. I would bet you the majority of zoochatters, even active posters, have never visited the Denver Zoo, and most of the praise I've seen has come from me or snowleopard, and I've seen others offer reservation towards him ranking it as high as he has. I've usually clarified my praise with my lack of travel to compare.

You're definitely entitled to the opinion it's not a top ten zoo, for the record, and I would agree about The Edge being undersized (it was my least favorite exhibit) and that Jewels of the Emerald Forest could use some refresh, though 'm also not really sure what could be done about "outdated paddocks" without going out of hoofstock? I don't think it's really overpraised.
 
If it helps for future reference, there is pretty much not a single hippopotamus exhibit in a traditional zoo setting that is really well-liked on zoochat. Even those in the top ten are subject to frequent criticism. They're a lot like '90s polar bear exhibits -- all water, not enough land, not big enough to rotate larger animals.
Cheyenne Mountain Zoo's tends to be well-liked, as is Disney's Animap Kingdom but that of course isn't a "traditional" zoo, per say.
 
Does "people" mean zoochatters or the usual travel and entertainment magazine lists that are regularly dunked on here? That makes a big difference. Genuinely asking. I would bet you the majority of zoochatters, even active posters, have never visited the Denver Zoo, and most of the praise I've seen has come from me or snowleopard, and I've seen others offer reservation towards him ranking it as high as he has. I've usually clarified my praise with my lack of travel to compare.

You're definitely entitled to the opinion it's not a top ten zoo, for the record, and I would agree about The Edge being undersized (it was my least favorite exhibit) and that Jewels of the Emerald Forest could use some refresh, though 'm also not really sure what could be done about "outdated paddocks" without going out of hoofstock? I don't think it's really overpraised.

I visited the Denver Zoo in Summer 2022 and I thought it was great. Predator Ridge, Elephant Passage, Tropical Discovery, Primate Panorama, and the hoofstock collection were all highlights. In my opinion the zoo's real problems come with the direction they began to head in after Elephant Passage was built. The Edge (new tiger exhibit) is awkward and unnaturalistic in comparison to the wolf habitat it replaced, and Harmony Hill (North America complex) is forgettable with a weird name and theming. This very month they've opened a new Flamingo exhibit, but nobody has cared enough to discuss it at all and unfortunately the exhibit isn't netted over for the birds to fly. Construction is also underway for a new Australia Complex, and it is supposed to have a couple nice species (Kea, Cassowary) but it is also disappointing to see Denver replace their entire bird house with what will primarily be a wallaby walkthrough.

Denver is a great zoo with a nice hoofstock collection and 4 top-notch exhibit complexes, but it is also disappointing that their newest additions aren't as innovative or unique as what they've built in the recent past.
 
I haven't seen anyone rank Philly in a top ten, even a top twenty in a long time, unless they know absolutely nothing about zoos. You can't really say "without Zoo360" though, as that's something they created and covers so many areas of the zoo.
Philly gets ranked in top ten lists because those lists are voted on by the public, and they're better than other zoos at mobilizing locals on social media to vote for them.
 
Cheyenne Mountain Zoo's tends to be well-liked, as is Disney's Animap Kingdom but that of course isn't a "traditional" zoo, per say.
I deliberately was excluding the latter but thank you for reminding me about Cheyene!

I visited the Denver Zoo in Summer 2022 and I thought it was great. Predator Ridge, Elephant Passage, Tropical Discovery, Primate Panorama, and the hoofstock collection were all highlights. In my opinion the zoo's real problems come with the direction they began to head in after Elephant Passage was built. The Edge (new tiger exhibit) is awkward and unnaturalistic in comparison to the wolf habitat it replaced, and Harmony Hill (North America complex) is forgettable with a weird name and theming. This very month they've opened a new Flamingo exhibit, but nobody has cared enough to discuss it at all and unfortunately the exhibit isn't netted over for the birds to fly. Construction is also underway for a new Australia Complex, and it is supposed to have a couple nice species (Kea, Cassowary) but it is also disappointing to see Denver replace their entire bird house with what will primarily be a wallaby walkthrough.

Denver is a great zoo with a nice hoofstock collection and 4 top-notch exhibit complexes, but it is also disappointing that their newest additions aren't as innovative or unique as what they've built in the recent past.
Agreed. Yeah, my review was pretty critical of The Edge and Harmony Hill. I'm not surprised by the lack of discourse on the flamingo exhibit as you pretty much summarize the state around those animals at any facility. I really wish I'd had the chance to see Bird World, but I do think the Australia complex has a lot of potential yet and I hope it surpasses expectations.
 
Denver is a great zoo with a nice hoofstock collection and 4 top-notch exhibit complexes, but it is also disappointing that their newest additions aren't as innovative or unique as what they've built in the recent past.

The hoofstock collection is definitely not what it used to be. But they've kept the dated paddocks.
And yeah, I think the new tiger exhibit is going backwards IMO.
 
Live feeding is cool.

I'm half jk. I like to see birds catch fish.
Depending on the taxa, I agree with this. I only live feed my leopard gecko, for example, but in other cases it is either dangerous or unethical. Unfortunately it didn't fit my schedule, but when at Bronx I wanted to catch the bee-eater feeding demonstration, which I'm told sometimes includes live bees.
 
@Aardwolf I really appreciate Hediger; but if you've seen the size of some of the original enclosures he had built, you will realize his personal estimation of adequate enclosure size was also a product of his time. Our conception of an adequate enclosure size is, among others, also a cultural one, and as such influenced by the current zeitgeist.

Quite true, all of the major figures of the industry were products of their time, some of whom have aged better than others. I find that I'm often alone in having fond appreciation of William Hornaday, for example, who now seems to be mostly remembered for the Ota Benga affair.

I mostly appreciate Hediger for taking a philosophical approach to zookeeping that said, "It's possible to do better, and it's possible for us to KNOW what doing better means."[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with you on your observations about Hediger. I have been interested in Hediger for a very long time and being involved with exotics all of my working life ,he taught me to question myself ,could it be better.
 
Also, I've always found it very... odd... that zookeepers working with a species ex situ seem to have an excluding attitude towards people that coexist with the species in situ.

I.e. A hoofstock keeper who refuses to acknowledge that regulated hunting in the western United States generates money for conservation.
 
Also, I've always found it very... odd... that zookeepers working with a species ex situ seem to have an excluding attitude towards people that coexist with the species in situ.

I.e. A hoofstock keeper who refuses to acknowledge that regulated hunting in the western United States generates money for conservation.
Having a different opinion is not the same as having an "excluding attitude". Like it or not, the role of hunting in conservation is a hot-button issue, and one which people have different attitudes towards. I don't think anyone is "refusing to acknowledge" regulating hunting can generate money for conservation, the more contentious point is whether or not the harm done by hunting is outweighed by that money raised. Especially when lead bullets are used, I for one think the harm can easily outweigh the money raised (i.e., look at California condors and lead poisoning).
 
Having a different opinion is not the same as having an "excluding attitude". Like it or not, the role of hunting in conservation is a hot-button issue, and one which people have different attitudes towards. I don't think anyone is "refusing to acknowledge" regulating hunting can generate money for conservation, the more contentious point is whether or not the harm done by hunting is outweighed by that money raised. Especially when lead bullets are used, I for one think the harm can easily outweigh the money raised (i.e., look at California condors and lead poisoning).

It's not this statement per se I have an issue with, but I won't get too deep into examples and cause another random debate. :rolleyes:
 
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