North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

I think it's important to note that they are labelled as 'recommendations' for a reason. Zoos aren't always bound to follow the recommendations and I know of many instances when zoos have sat on recommendations or even gone against them. Unfortunately the SSP cannot do much in that situation. I'm not saying this is the case all the time but certainly has to be taken into consideration. Imo the SSP has made some questionable moves in the last decade but I wouldn't point all of them down to 'mismanagement'.

Oh definitely its not 100% the SSP's fault. Its a team effort and several zoos have not been being great team players...
It still baffles me that the SSP/AZA doesn't have more "power" over these transfers so to speak. Especially in a situation like St Louis. Raja likely has a plethora of breeding reccomendations that the zoo has ignored, if the SSP could intervene and force the zoo's hand then this wouldn't be an issue, but I imagine that kind of power wouldn't always be a good thing for the same reason, as obviously the SSP coordinators don't work with the animals on a daily basis as the keepers do and may make a call less than ideal for am animals' wellbeing.

In terms of "mismanagement" I meant less SSP management and more how the zoos deal with their programs individually. I'd find it hard to call Columbus risking letting their cows lose reproductive viability something OTHER than "mismanagement" of their elephant program. Id call the St Louis decisions the same thing.
Imo there certainly needs to be stricter regulation of the NA breeding program. Letting zoos make such questionable decisions is going to run the program into the ground someday.

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

I can assure you I am not mixing the two up as Jati has a VERY distinct look when compared to the other cows but as I mentioned there were 3 elephants in the same yard... Nonetheless, here are just a couple videos all taken this year (one as recent as 9 days ago) showing that they are indeed still sharing the same space. Two of these are from the zoo themselves one from may for Mai Thai's 50th and the other from a cheetah enrichment session.

Spoiler: Video Links

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P2pm87rmB_w?feature=share

I would also like to mention you are completely contradicting what the zoo themselves have said is their plan for the herd in their news release for the arrival of the Dublin herd...

Hmm that is very interesting and you are definitely correct that all three girls are together in those videos. I went to the zoo today to try to see what the misunderstanding was between me and the zookeeper as it appears I was wrong with my previous statements. I found the same zookeeper at Elephant Reserve again and asked her about Mai Thai and Jati and it turns out that there was confusion on my end and I was incorrect. Mai Thai and Jati are able to be housed together as long as Schottzie is with them as she will discipline Jati as needed and so I was incorrect in my understanding that Mai Thai and Jati could not be housed together at all. She also stated that this will lead to Mai Thai or Jati sometimes being on her own as due to the limited space and what areas the keepers need access to, not all three girls can be together at the same time always. She stated that the staff team is hesitant about introductions between the current girls and the Dublin herd. According to the keeper Mai Thai will be the first elephant to be introduced to the new cows due to her submissiveness and gentle personality. The zoo will try to integrate Schottzie and Jati into the herd next but staff are wary as Schottzie, Jati, and Yasmin are all dominant individuals. If need be, the zoo can handle two separate herds due to the large space and the integration will not be forced at all. The reason for the girls not moving to another facility like the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee is due to the fact that all three females have spent their entire lives in Cincinnati with the same keepers who have worked with them for the last thirty years and a move could be stressful especially due to their advanced age (id est Mai Thai). When I brought up the topic of Kabir and Sanjay she mentioned that they will remain at the zoo for the time to come and there are no current plans of transfer. The ideal goal would be to have a small bachelor herd in Cincinnati along with the main herd allowing for more dynamic social groups. Hopefully this clears things up for everyone and sorts out some of the knots and kinks of my previous post!

White Oak I feel is definitely a confirmed breeder for the program going forward. As you'll find in my population list they have 2 confirmed calves on the ground since they moved their herd in (don't quote me) 2020 and I'm sure have several more on the way.

Spoiler: White Oak Calves

0.1 Masala (Casey × Mable) 2021.08.25

0.1 Tikka (Casey × Aree) 2022.06.14

They also have way more than two females within a reproductive window. As of my last update, their population consisted of 1.14 individuals. Of the 14 females, 7 of them are all 26 and under and have either had a calf/pregnancy in the last 10 years or just reached reproductive age. (See the green below) Even if you take Sara and Asha from the equation as many will disqualify them as first-time mothers because of their age that still gives White Oak a sizable breeding herd of 5 cows all under 30.

Spoiler: White Oak Population as of January 2023

White Oak Conservation Center - Yulee, Florida, United States

1.0 Casey (WILD × WILD) 1971.00.00

0.1 Tonka (Hugo or Vance × Minyak) 1983.08.23 (40) 0 Calves

0.1 Luna (Hugo or Vance × Josky) 1984.01.01 (39) 0 Calves

0.1 Juliette (Pete × Icky) 1992.12.30 (31) 0 Calves

0.1 Bonnie (Vance × Sid) 1994.10.29 (29) 1 calf in 2009

0.1 Kelly Ann (Vance × Sally) 1996.01.01 (27) 0 Calves

0.1 Angelica (Charlie × Icky) 1997.06.23 (26) 1 Calf in 2013

0.1 Sara (Charlie × Icky) 2001.04.16 (22) 0 Calves

0.1 Asha (Charlie × Alana) 2002.03.05 (21) 0 Calves

0.1 Aree (Charlie × Mala) 2005.04.21 (18) 1 Calf in 2022

0.1 Mable (Romeo × Shirley) 2006.04.06 (17) 1 Calf in 2021

0.1 April (Charlie × Alana) 2010.04.03 (13) 0 Calves

0.1 Piper (Romeo × Shirley) 2012.08.13 (11) 0 Calves

0.1 Masala (Casey × Mable) 2021.08.25

0.1 Tikka (Casey × Aree) 2022.06.14

Total: 1.14.0 (15)

Now don't get me wrong there's still a ton of mismanagement when its comes to the program as a whole but White Oak just came onto the scene with the acquisition of the Ringling Herd and just moved their herd so you've got to give them time to get it going. They are completely different than Ringling was and are managing the herd in an arguably much more natural setting so to speak so they should have no problem boosting the regions success.

That's great news that White Oak has had so much success for far especially from Casey who is such a valuable bull! According to a recent USDA report White Oak now has 24 elephants so it seems more of the herd has been transferred over. Do you know which individuals by chance? With Nick Newby and Dr. Dennis Schmitt working so closely with the TAG and SSP I can’t wait to see the positive effect White Oak will have on the Asian Elephant program as a whole.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Hmm that is very interesting and you are definitely correct that all three girls are together in those videos. I went to the zoo today to try to see what the misunderstanding was between me and the zookeeper as it appears I was wrong with my previous statements. I found the same zookeeper at Elephant Reserve again and asked her about Mai Thai and Jati and it turns out that there was confusion on my end and I was incorrect. Mai Thai and Jati are able to be housed together as long as Schottzie is with them as she will discipline Jati as needed and so I was incorrect in my understanding that Mai Thai and Jati could not be housed together at all. She also stated that this will lead to Mai Thai or Jati sometimes being on her own as due to the limited space and what areas the keepers need access to, not all three girls can be together at the same time always. She stated that the staff team is hesitant about introductions between the current girls and the Dublin herd. According to the keeper Mai Thai will be the first elephant to be introduced to the new cows due to her submissiveness and gentle personality. The zoo will try to integrate Schottzie and Jati into the herd next but staff are wary as Schottzie, Jati, and Yasmin are all dominant individuals. If need be, the zoo can handle two separate herds due to the large space and the integration will not be forced at all. The reason for the girls not moving to another facility like the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee is due to the fact that all three females have spent their entire lives in Cincinnati with the same keepers who have worked with them for the last thirty years and a move could be stressful especially due to their advanced age (id est Mai Thai). When I brought up the topic of Kabir and Sanjay she mentioned that they will remain at the zoo for the time to come and there are no current plans of transfer. The ideal goal would be to have a small bachelor herd in Cincinnati along with the main herd allowing for more dynamic social groups. Hopefully this clears things up for everyone and sorts out some of the knots and kinks of my previous post!

Honestly it doesn't surprise me that the Cinci PR team would overhype the introductions of the older girls to the Dublin herd. We all know from their hippos how much they tend to anthropomorphize their animals, and we saw that right away with SheRa and Schottzie's relation angle. I feel so bad that the keepers are being obviously pressured by this.
I am very excited at the prospect of a bachelor herd though! Perhaps they would be willing to take in some other young males in the future from other facilities down the road (IE Frankie in Columbus)? Cinci is in a unique position where they can very well sustain a small bachelor herd AND a sizable breeding herd. NA is in serious need of more bachelor holding as well.

 

[Jambo]

That's great news that White Oak has had so much success for far especially from Casey who is such a valuable bull! According to a recent USDA report White Oak now has 24 elephants so it seems more of the herd has been transferred over. Do you know which individuals by chance? With Nick Newby and Dr. Dennis Schmitt working so closely with the TAG and SSP I can’t wait to see the positive effect White Oak will have on the Asian Elephant program as a whole.

I believe Charlie has since been sent over too, not sure about the other ten though.

 

[Jambo]

Honestly it doesn't surprise me that the Cinci PR team would overhype the introductions of the older girls to the Dublin herd. We all know from their hippos how much they tend to anthropomorphize their animals, and we saw that right away with SheRa and Schottzie's relation angle. I feel so bad that the keepers are being obviously pressured by this.
I am very excited at the prospect of a bachelor herd though! Perhaps they would be willing to take in some other young males in the future from other facilities down the road (IE Frankie in Columbus)? Cinci is in a unique position where they can very well sustain a small bachelor herd AND a sizable breeding herd. NA is in serious need of more bachelor holding as well.

Considering the regions obvious need for bachelor holding facilities, it would be very beneficial for Cincy to operate as a bachelor facility too. Kabir and Sanjay aren't also particularly valuable males so perhaps that would explain why Cincy are electing to hold onto them (at least for the time being). It would be good they could be joined by one or two males from within the region too (depending on space).

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

Honestly it doesn't surprise me that the Cinci PR team would overhype the introductions of the older girls to the Dublin herd. We all know from their hippos how much they tend to anthropomorphize their animals, and we saw that right away with SheRa and Schottzie's relation angle. I feel so bad that the keepers are being obviously pressured by this.
I am very excited at the prospect of a bachelor herd though! Perhaps they would be willing to take in some other young males in the future from other facilities down the road (IE Frankie in Columbus)? Cinci is in a unique position where they can very well sustain a small bachelor herd AND a sizable breeding herd. NA is in serious need of more bachelor holding as well.

As far as I can tell there seems to be no pressure from the PR team at all regarding introductions between the elephants and it is rather the zookeepers who would like to see it happen in order to improve the elephants social welfare. A bachelor herd is very exciting indeed and if the plan goes through Frankie would definitely make a good candidate! Without the anthropomorphization of the hippos, I don't think our city would care as much about nature and the environment and the positive impact that family of animals has had on the city is amazing! I mean Fiona is a household name here in Cincinnati and just considered another celebrity like Joe Burrow (Our football team’s quarterback) and the impact she has had on wildlife conservation and even inspiring hundred’s in the Children’s Hospital to keep going is incredible! I understand why some disagree with anthropomorphization but in this case, I truly think it has made the city and zoo much better!

I believe Charlie has since been sent over too, not sure about the other ten though.

Last I heard Charlie had sadly passed away.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

And even if Aree, Mable, April, and Piper are the only breeding females if Angelica, Sara and Asha don't end up becoming pregnant the herd can still grow their numbers by having calves every three to four years.

Assuming Casey lives till 2030 and still manages to mate with Aree, Mable, April, and Piper that same year and they give birth 22 months later not counting Tikka nor Masala a total of 15 calves would be born

• 0.1 Masala (Casey × Mable) 2021.08.25
• 0.1 Tikka (Casey × Aree) 2022.06.14
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2023.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Mable) 2024.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey x Piper) 2024.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2023.00.000
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Aree) 2025.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2026.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf Casey x Piper) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Mable) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Aree) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2029.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf Casey x Piper) 2032.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Mable) 2032.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Aree) 2032.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2032.00.00

And being real bold I would like to think that either Ongard, or one of the Dublin males move to White Oak and mate with Masala and Tikka in 2030 making them 9 and 8 and them giving birth at 11 and 10 but this just a pipe dream

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

And being real bold I would like to think that either Ongard, or one of the Dublin males move to White Oak and mate with Masala and Tikka in 2030 making them 9 and 8 and them giving birth at 11 and 10 but this just a pipe dream

I'm not opposed to the idea of the Dublin boys eventually moving on and getting the opportunity to sire calves of their own, but isn't 9 and 8 a little... young for a first pregnancy? It sounds a touch too young to me. What age do Asian elephant cows in the wild get pregnant for the first time at? What's the average age for a first pregnancy in captivity?

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

As far as I can tell there seems to be no pressure from the PR team at all regarding introductions between the elephants and it is rather the zookeepers who would like to see it happen in order to improve the elephants social welfare. A bachelor herd is very exciting indeed and if the plan goes through Frankie would definitely make a good candidate! Without the anthropomorphization of the hippos, I don't think our city would care as much about nature and the environment and the positive impact that family of animals has had on the city is amazing! I mean Fiona is a household name here in Cincinnati and just considered another celebrity like Joe Burrow (Our football team’s quarterback) and the impact she has had on wildlife conservation and even inspiring hundred’s in the Children’s Hospital to keep going is incredible! I understand why some disagree with anthropomorphization but in this case, I truly think it has made the city and zoo much better!

Last I heard Charlie had sadly passed away.

This isn't the hippo thread so I won't go into too much rambling lol but I do think Cinci leans into anthropomorphizing their familial species just a tad too much. Intros between the hippo bloat post Fritz were very rushed and very risky because of how quickly they wanted to put the "family" together. Obviously space was a factor as well but not the main one. Its frankly a miracle none of the bloat got hurt.
I trust Cincinnati’s keepers, I just don't like how quickly PR grabbed ahold of the fact that Schottzie and SheRa are related and paraded it. While of course the goal is to integrate the girls, my fear is that keepers will be pushed into intros sooner than they'd like so that the herd can be publicized faster. As others have said before, not every single decision that goes on in a zoo is for the best of the animals, and while I'm not overly concerned about that being a problem at Cinci I definitely am wary considering the KEEPERS have their doubts on how things will go when all the publicity says otherwise.
This isn't to say that Cinci's PR method isn't successful though. Fiona's story has indeed inspired millions of people, made many people care AND does encourage people to donate to the zoo. Shes a very positive force indeed !

 

[Mr.Ivory]

I'm not opposed to the idea of the Dublin boys eventually moving on and getting the opportunity to sire calves of their own, but isn't 9 and 8 a little... young for a first pregnancy? It sounds a touch too young to me. What age do Asian elephant cows in the wild get pregnant for the first time at? What's the average age for a first pregnancy in captivity?

Well multiple cows have gotten pregnant at even younger ages from ages 3-7. Belle at Forth Worth Zoo got pregnant in 2021 and gave birth this year at age 10

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

I'm not opposed to the idea of the Dublin boys eventually moving on and getting the opportunity to sire calves of their own, but isn't 9 and 8 a little... young for a first pregnancy? It sounds a touch too young to me. What age do Asian elephant cows in the wild get pregnant for the first time at? What's the average age for a first pregnancy in captivity?

Females can begin cycling as young as six, the AZA reccomends breeding begin at 8 at the youngest iirc.

Assuming Casey lives till 2030 and still manages to mate with Aree, Mable, April, and Piper that same year and they give birth 22 months later not counting Tikka nor Masala a total of 12 calves would be born

I'm not sure how I'd feel allowing Casey to sire 10+ calves. One of the issues we face in NA right now is a lack of unique bloodlines, and wouldn't we be backing ourselves into the same corner by allowing a sire to have a surplus of calves with related females? After Casey sires a little bunch, he should be moved out to make room for a bull with fresh genes.

 

[Jambo]

And even if Aree, Mable, April, and Piper are the only breeding females if Angelica, Sara and Asha don't end up becoming pregnant the herd can still grow their numbers by having calves every three to four years.

Assuming Casey lives till 2030 and still manages to mate with Aree, Mable, April, and Piper that same year and they give birth 22 months later not counting Tikka nor Masala a total of 15 calves would be born

• 0.1 Masala (Casey × Mable) 2021.08.25
• 0.1 Tikka (Casey × Aree) 2022.06.14
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2023.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Mable) 2024.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey x Piper) 2024.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2023.00.000
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Aree) 2025.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2026.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf Casey x Piper) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Mable) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Aree) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2028.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2029.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf Casey x Piper) 2032.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Mable) 2032.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × Aree) 2032.00.00
• 0.0.1 calf (Casey × April) 2032.00.00

And being real bold I would like to think that either Ongard, or one of the Dublin males move to White Oak and mate with Masala and Tikka in 2030 making them 9 and 8 and them giving birth at 11 and 10 but this just a pipe dream

Keep in mind they're relying on a currently 52 year old Casey for breeding. Unless he exceeds the maximum lifespan White Oak will probably have to look at acquiring a bull sooner or later. Ongard who is a very very valuable male would be the perfect choice!

 

[Jambo]

I'm not opposed to the idea of the Dublin boys eventually moving on and getting the opportunity to sire calves of their own, but isn't 9 and 8 a little... young for a first pregnancy? It sounds a touch too young to me. What age do Asian elephant cows in the wild get pregnant for the first time at? What's the average age for a first pregnancy in captivity?

Well multiple cows have gotten pregnant at even younger ages from ages 3-7. Belle at Forth Worth Zoo got pregnant in 2021 and gave birth this year at age 10

The recommended age is around eight, so first calf at around ten. In saying that, a lot of zoos these days are taking that a little further and the standard now seems to be females having their first calf at around the age of twelve. All of White Oaks females are therefore of the adequate age to conceive.

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

Females can begin cycling as young as six, the AZA reccomends breeding begin at 8 at the youngest iirc.

I see then! Well, maybe I had just gotten the wrong impression since it *appeared that the vast majority of Asian cows didn't conceive for the first time until they were usually 10+, if not in their teens! [*Via looking at lineages.]

I guess that's more due to *management than natural forces then, eh?

[*Wanting to space out pregnancies in order to prevent over-crowding in exhibits and put off transfers from having to happen for as long as possible, etc and so forth.]

I've been pleasantly surprised by White Oak so far. Initially, I was under the impression that White Oak was taking Ringling's elephant herd on, as well...

A rescue situation. At least, that's certainly how the media were spinning it. So I mistakenly assumed that White Oak would not be breeding the Ringling elephants and instead would just allow the whole herd to die off naturally.

Given the admitted success Ringling had with it's breeding program and perhaps, more importantly, how it has the potential to *broaden the genetic base of the AZA Asian elephant population...

[*I hope anyway. I'm not entirely certain on this detail, but overall, the Ringling herd isn't closely related to Asian elephants in AZA zoos, yes? The impressive I've always gotten from Ringling is that it's breeding program was always very much it's own thing, meant to assure that a supply of elephants would always be guaranteed for use in their shows. So, not much, if any, collaboration with the AZA then.]

I'm hopeful that White Oak will become the African Lion Safari of America. You know, home to a hugely successful Asian elephant breeding program. Largely owed it's large, stable elephant herd having access to hundreds of acres of which to roam as they please.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

I'm not sure how I'd feel allowing Casey to sire 10+ calves. One of the issues we face in NA right now is a lack of unique bloodlines, and wouldn't we be backing ourselves into the same corner by allowing a sire to have a surplus of calves with related females? After Casey sires a little bunch, he should be moved out to make room for a bull with fresh genes.

Keep in mind they're relying on a currently 52 year old Casey for breeding. Unless he exceeds the maximum lifespan White Oak will probably have to look at acquiring a bull sooner or later. Ongard who is a very very valuable male would be the perfect choice!

I agree with both statements realistically Casey would sire around 4-5 more calves till he passes but there are very few options that are not of overrepresented lines at the moment only Sabu, Sneezy, Billy, Spike, Ongard, and Kabir are unrelated to any breeding female in the population, and three of those 6 options are in or set to be in breeding herds, Billy and Ongard would be the most likely options becoming the next breeding but White Oak may be willing to import from Europe

 

[Jambo]

I see then! Well, maybe I had just gotten the wrong impression since it *appeared that the vast majority of Asian cows didn't conceive for the first time until they were usually 10+, if not in their teens! [*Via looking at lineages.]

I guess that's more due to *management than natural forces then, eh?

[*Wanting to space out pregnancies in order to prevent over-crowding in exhibits and put off transfers from having to happen for as long as possible, etc and so forth.]

I've been pleasantly surprised by White Oak so far. Initially, I was under the impression that White Oak was taking Ringling's elephant herd on, as well...

A rescue situation. At least, that's certainly how the media were spinning it. So I mistakenly assumed that White Oak would not be breeding the Ringling elephants and instead would just allow the whole herd to die off naturally.

Given the admitted success Ringling had with it's breeding program and perhaps, more importantly, how it has the potential to *broaden the genetic base of the AZA Asian elephant population...

[*I hope anyway. I'm not entirely certain on this detail, but overall, the Ringling herd isn't closely related to Asian elephants in AZA zoos, yes? The impressive I've always gotten from Ringling is that it's breeding program was always very much it's own thing, meant to assure that a supply of elephants would always be guaranteed for use in their shows. So, not much, if any, collaboration with the AZA then.]

I'm hopeful that White Oak will become the African Lion Safari of America. You know, home to a hugely successful Asian elephant breeding program. Largely owed it's large, stable elephant herd having access to hundreds of acres of which to roam as they please.

Some elephants have been distributed into the regional breeding program in the past - Sunny, Rudy at Columbus, Romeo at Fort Worth and Doc at Syracuse.

There's also a few regional relations through one of Ringlings previous bulls (Vance); Targa and Mali at Syracuse, Hank at Columbus.

White Oak has the potential to be similar to ALS in regards to herd size, and could even exceed that! That would be best case scenario.

 

[Jambo]

I agree with both statements realistically Casey would sire around 4-5 more calves till he passes but there are very few options that are not of overrepresented lines at the moment only Sabu, Sneezy, Billy, Spike, Ongard, and Kabir are unrelated to any breeding female in the population, and three of those 6 options are in or set to be in breeding herds, Billy and Ongard would be the most likely options becoming the next breeding but White Oak may be willing to import from Europe

Ongard would be the ultimate bull here if White Oak could get it done. White Oak is one of the few facilities that can breed their elephants a lot and this would be useful especially with Ongard being a valuable bull.

Other options could be Baylor at Houston, Samundra at Oregon or if we're going to assume Denver will offload one of their bulls, Bohdi will certainly be the best choice imo. He's valuable via his fathers side, and would be a better choice compared to Billy who with the arrival of his relatives from Dublin, has now been shunted down the breeding ranks.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Ongard would be the ultimate bull here if White Oak could get it done. White Oak is one of the few facilities that can breed their elephants a lot and this would be useful especially with Ongard being a valuable bull.

Other options could be Baylor at Houston, Samundra at Oregon or if we're going to assume Denver will offload one of their bulls, Bohdi will certainly be the best choice imo. He's valuable via his fathers side, and would be a better choice compared to Billy who with the arrival of his relatives from Dublin, has now been shunted down the breeding ranks.

Not that Billy, Billy from LA

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Bohdi will certainly be the best choice imo. He's valuable via his fathers side, and would be a better choice compared to Billy

I'm not so sure putting Bodhi in a breeding situation would be the best move. He may have a valuable father, but his maternal line is very overrepresented across both the NA and European populations. In NA alone he has cloae relatives (IE siblings, cousins, aunts, etc) at seven facilities and in all of those facilities those individuals are/will be in breeding situations.

 

[Yassa]

Bodhi MUST breed!!! He is the only suriving offspring of his wildborn father and of he doesnt breed, Coco‘s genes are lost. I dont think the Asian elephant population in North America can afford that.