Australasian Common Chimpanzee Population

[Zoofan15]

Personally, I don't see Hamilton's young females going to Monarto, especially if Happy turns out to be Tsotsi's son. Are there any related males at Taronga that might prevent them being transferred there?

I agree Wellington and Rockhampton are the best options. Alon (alpha male) at Rockhampton is a regional founder and his son Gandali is also very valuable.

Every male at Taronga is related to Chiku and Kendi as follows:

Lulu (1960-2014) gave birth to Lucy (1975) and Lisa (1979):

Lucy gave birth to Lucifer (1988) and Luka (1993)
Luka sired Chiku (2016) and Kendi (2020)

Lisa gave birth to Lubutu (1993-2019) and Liwali (2014)
Lubutu sired Samaki (2001), Furahi (2003), Shikamoo (2003) and Sule (2008)
Shikamoo sired Fumo (2013) and Sudi (2014)
Sule sired Niambi (2020)

(Taronga’s living males are in bold).

These are eight of Taronga’s nine males. The ninth is Shabani (1994), who is related via Mary. Mary was the mother of Mike and Monte. Mike sired Lucifer and Luka; Monte sired Shabani.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I agree Wellington and Rockhampton are the best options. Alon (alpha male) at Rockhampton is a regional founder and his son Gandali is also very valuable.

Every male at Taronga is related to Chiku and Kendi as follows:

Lulu (1960-2014) gave birth to Lucy (1975) and Lisa (1979):

Lucy gave birth to Lucifer (1988) and Luka (1993)
Luka sired Chiku (2016) and Kendi (2020)

Lisa gave birth to Lubutu (1993-2019) and Liwali (2014)
Lubutu sired Samaki (2001), Furahi (2003), Shikamoo (2003) and Sule (2008)
Shikamoo sired Fumo (2013) and Sudi (2014)
Sule sired Niambi (2020)

(Taronga’s living males are in bold).

These are eight of Taronga’s nine males. The ninth is Shabani (1994), who is related via Mary. Mary was the mother of Mike and Monte. Mike sired Lucifer and Luka; Monte sired Shabani.

Thanks for this, so Taronga would definitely be out on those grounds.

Rockhampton does seem the ideal option if Australia is decided upon, although personally I would prefer Wellington, which does seem to have quite a few likely males who would be suitable for Chiku and Kendi.

 

[Jambo]

Thanks for this, so Taronga would definitely be out on those grounds.

Rockhampton does seem the ideal option if Australia is decided upon, although personally I would prefer Wellington, which does seem to have quite a few likely males who would be suitable for Chiku and Kendi.

Wellington's youngest three chimps are all males, so there's certainly a lot of suitable options for both Chiku and Kendi. If we anticipate this transfer occurring, it'll still be around a decade away imo. By that time Wellington's only viable breeding female will be Malika (2010) who hasn't breed herself as of yet.

 

[Zoofan15]

Wellington's youngest three chimps are all males, so there's certainly a lot of suitable options for both Chiku and Kendi. If we anticipate this transfer occurring, it'll still be around a decade away imo. By that time Wellington's only viable breeding female will be Malika (2010) who hasn't breed herself as of yet.

I’m anticipating Wellington will breed from Malika within the next 2-3 years. Breeding from females in their mid-teens appears to be the continuing trend and they’ll want to ensure she breeds with Alexis as opposed to Bakari and Kitwe, who are closer relations. Alexis is firmly in place as the alpha male; but Bakari is the obvious successor.

We can guarantee Sally won’t breed again due to the representation of her line via Sacha’s sons (combined with her age and representation in Wellington’s troop). Keza could potentially breed up until circa 2038, though acquiring new (unrelated) females would be preferable and I anticipate we’ll only see her breeding for social reasons. Hopefully an infant in 2024 and perhaps one more a decade later (when Bakari is in power).

It’s ironic considering the many offspring they’ve had between them that Cara, Samantha and Sally only have two surviving daughters between them (and both born to Samantha).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Wellington's youngest three chimps are all males, so there's certainly a lot of suitable options for both Chiku and Kendi. If we anticipate this transfer occurring, it'll still be around a decade away imo. By that time Wellington's only viable breeding female will be Malika (2010) who hasn't breed herself as of yet.

Those 3 young males would be Bakari, Kitwe and Akida, is that correct?

 

[Zoofan15]

Those 3 young males would be Bakari, Kitwe and Akida, is that correct?

Yes, Wellington has four males (with those three being the youngest):

1.0 Alexis (1998) Boyd x Cara
1.0 Bakari (2012) Sam x Sally
1.0 Kitwe (2014) Sam x Keza
1.0 Akida (2021) Alexis x Sally

Alexis is one of three living representatives of Bessie, so a gentically valuable male. The other two are Cara (his mother, who is no longer breeding) and Akida (his infant son). He will hopefully sire at least one more infant during his tenure as alpha male since Keza is off contraception.

Sam was also a genetically valuable male. His offspring (Bakari, Malika and Kitwe) are the only living descendants of a founder named Sarah (1959-1985).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Yes, Wellington has four males (with those three being the youngest):

1.0 Alexis (1998) Boyd x Cara
1.0 Bakari (2012) Sam x Sally
1.0 Kitwe (2014) Sam x Keza
1.0 Akida (2021) Alexis x Sally

Alexis is one of three living representatives of Bessie, so a gentically valuable male. The other two are Cara (his mother, who is no longer breeding) and Akida (his infant son). He will hopefully sire at least one more infant during his tenure as alpha male since Keza is off contraception.

Sam was also a genetically valuable male. His offspring (Bakari, Malika and Kitwe) are the only living descendants of a founder named Sarah (1959-1985).

Thanks for this! I think it would be most advantageous for Chiku and Kendi to be sent to Wellington when the time comes.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Wellington's youngest three chimps are all males, so there's certainly a lot of suitable options for both Chiku and Kendi. If we anticipate this transfer occurring, it'll still be around a decade away imo. By that time Wellington's only viable breeding female will be Malika (2010) who hasn't breed herself as of yet.

Yes, I definitely agree with this. Hopefully Malika will breed, too, since she too is genetically valuable.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for this! I think it would be most advantageous for Chiku and Kendi to be sent to Wellington when the time comes.

I think transferring them there would tie in nicely with Wellington needing new females. Cara and Sally have finished breeding and due to her age (40 years), I assume Samantha has too. Her line is more valuable than it was a decade ago (due to a turn of events at Taronga); but she has two reproductive aged daughters at Wellington (and a grandson), which is sufficient.

Chiku and Kendi could transfer over circa 2028; with Wellington likely breeding from Keza circa 2024 and Malika circa 2026 in the interim.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I think transferring them there would tie in nicely with Wellington needing new females. Cara and Sally have finished breeding and due to her age (40 years), I assume Samantha has too. Her line is more valuable than it was a decade ago (due to a turn of events at Taronga); but she has two reproductive aged daughters at Wellington (and a grandson), which is sufficient.

Chiku and Kendi could transfer over circa 2028; with Wellington likely breeding from Keza circa 2024 and Malika circa 2026 in the interim.

Yes, I personally think that would be the best solution, going forward. If Sanda does breed again, new males or females would doubtless be brought in later depending on the sex of the infant and whether Luka and Lucifer are still alive at the time.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, I personally think that would be the best solution, going forward. If Sanda does breed again, new males or females would doubtless be brought in later depending on the sex of the infant and whether Luka and Lucifer are still alive at the time.

It would be nice to see Hamilton Zoo hold a larger troop long term.

I recently compiled a list of the sizes of exhibits in the region:

Rockhampton: 1000m2
Wellington: 1500m2 estimate
Taronga: 1910m2
Hamilton: 2500m2 estimate
Monarto: 3000m2

Considering Taronga hold 21 chimpanzees, Hamilton should at least aspire to hold a troop in their mid teens. Husbandry guidelines recommend three adult males and four adult females as a minimum; and if there’s an opportunity to bring in new males when Lucifer and Luka pass, it’d be a great opportunity to source some new bloodlines from Europe. A daughter from Luka and Sanda (as well as Sanda if still alive) could then be joined by two or more imported females.

The benefits of holding a troop in the double figures is clear watching Wellington’s troop; and Taronga’s community has been described as one of the closest in the world to functioning as a wild community would.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

It would be nice to see Hamilton Zoo hold a larger troop long term.

I recently compiled a list of the sizes of exhibits in the region:

Rockhampton: 1000m2
Wellington: 1500m2 estimate
Taronga: 1910m2
Hamilton: 2500m2 estimate
Monarto: 3000m2

Considering Taronga hold 21 chimpanzees, Hamilton should at least aspire to hold a troop in their mid teens. Husbandry guidelines recommend three adult males and four adult females as a minimum; and if there’s an opportunity to bring in new males when Lucifer and Luka pass, it’d be a great opportunity to source some new bloodlines from Europe. A daughter from Luka and Sanda (as well as Sanda if still alive) could then be joined by two or more imported females.

The benefits of holding a troop in the double figures is clear watching Wellington’s troop; and Taronga’s community has been described as one of the closest in the world to functioning as a wild community would.

I would really love to see the Hamilton troop expand. There is so much potential for a thriving community!

 

[Zoofan15]

I would really love to see the Hamilton troop expand. There is so much potential for a thriving community!

It’s such a shame there’s been missed opportunities for the troop to expand in the past:

Suzie and Sally was 40 and 34 years respectively when the troop transferred from Auckland and had they not been behavioural non breeders, I have no doubt the zoo would have been delighted for those genetically valuable females to have bred.

Lucy has been on contraception since the mid-90’s to prevent overcrowding of the Auckland exhibit; and for the past decade, inbreeding with her sons. There was a brief window between confirmation the Auckland troop would he moving to Hamilton and Luka’s takeover as alpha that you could hear guarantee Mike would have sired her infant had she been allowed to breed.

When Fimi and Sanda arrived from Adelaide, there was a question mark over whether Fimi would still be able to breed. She favoured Mike and he likely would have sired what would have been a very genetically valuable infant had she conceived. Her last infant has been 19 years prior and from what I’ve seen in the region, having an infant within the past decade places older females in a better position to conceive.

The death of Chima was a tragedy in itself. It was an unknown at the time if Sanda would ever breed; and though she did, Chima would have provided an additional line (potentially having had two infants by now).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

It’s such a shame there’s been missed opportunities for the troop to expand in the past:

Suzie and Sally was 40 and 34 years respectively when the troop transferred from Auckland and had they not been behavioural non breeders, I have no doubt the zoo would have been delighted for those genetically valuable females to have bred.

Lucy has been on contraception since the mid-90’s to prevent overcrowding of the Auckland exhibit; and for the past decade, inbreeding with her sons. There was a brief window between confirmation the Auckland troop would he moving to Hamilton and Luka’s takeover as alpha that you could hear guarantee Mike would have sired her infant had she been allowed to breed.

When Fimi and Sanda arrived from Adelaide, there was a question mark over whether Fimi would still be able to breed. She favoured Mike and he likely would have sired what would have been a very genetically valuable infant had she conceived. Her last infant has been 19 years prior and from what I’ve seen in the region, having an infant within the past decade places older females in a better position to conceive.

The death of Chima was a tragedy in itself. It was an unknown at the time if Sanda would ever breed; and though she did, Chima would have provided an additional line (potentially having had two infants by now).

Absolutely, I agree. It is fortunate that Sanda at least got to breed, particularly now that her brother Tsotsi has passed away, and that she has produced two healthy, thriving females.

 

[Zoofan15]

Absolutely, I agree. It is fortunate that Sanda at least got to breed, particularly now that her brother Tsotsi has passed away, and that she has produced two healthy, thriving females.

It’s very fortunate Sanda has eventually produced two healthy offspring at Hamilton Zoo. She took close to seven years to conceive, which was partly attributed to Luka being distracted by Sally, who cycled concurrently.

Sanda previously gave birth to an infant named Mosi at Adelaide Zoo in 1993, but she sadly died at three months old. It would have been interesting if three generations (Fimi, Sanda and Mosi) had come to Hamilton!

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

It’s very fortunate Sanda has eventually produced two healthy offspring at Hamilton Zoo. She took close to seven years to conceive, which was partly attributed to Luka being distracted by Sally, who cycled concurrently.

Sanda previously gave birth to an infant named Mosi at Adelaide Zoo in 1993, but she sadly died at three months old. It would have been interesting if three generations (Fimi, Sanda and Mosi) had come to Hamilton!

It's unfortunate that there was never a Luka x Sally offspring, and that Sanda took so long to conceive. And it would have been amazing to have another breeding aged female chimpanzee. I can only speculate on how the troop would be expanding now if that had occurred.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's unfortunate that there was never a Luka x Sally offspring, and that Sanda took so long to conceive. And it would have been amazing to have another breeding aged female chimpanzee. I can only speculate on how the troop would be expanding now if that had occurred.

I guess with Sally there was always that risk that she’d have rejected an infant had she conceived, but she’s always been fond of infants (human and chimpanzee alike).

It would have been interesting to see the change in troop dynamics followings the births of Lucifer and Luka. As a mother raised female, Lucy had likely assumed the alpha female role even before their birth; but it’s clear from photos in the zoo’s history book it brought Mike and Lucy closer together and I don’t doubt Susie and Sally took to the new additions to the troop.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I guess with Sally there was always that risk that she’d have rejected an infant had she conceived, but she’s always been fond of infants (human and chimpanzee alike).

It would have been interesting to see the change in troop dynamics followings the births of Lucifer and Luka. As a mother raised female, Lucy had likely assumed the alpha female role even before their birth; but it’s clear from photos in the zoo’s history book it brought Mike and Lucy closer together and I don’t doubt Susie and Sally took to the new additions to the troop.

I believe Sally, despite her upbringing, would have been a loving mother, given her fondness for the young Chiku in particular. Susie, perhaps, not so much.

The chimp troop's dynamics have always been fascinating to me, even in their present state with the strong presence of Lucy and Luka appearing to be quite relaxed for an alpha male, due to his lack of challengers. Perhaps Lucifer's nervous nature arose because of Mike's tyranny - Lucy always seemed super protective of Luka from what I remember of the old days, and appeared to considerably favor her younger son.

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe Sally, despite her upbringing, would have been a loving mother, given her fondness for the young Chiku in particular. Susie, perhaps, not so much.

The chimp troop's dynamics have always been fascinating to me, even in their present state with the strong presence of Lucy and Luka appearing to be quite relaxed for an alpha male, due to his lack of challengers. Perhaps Lucifer's nervous nature arose because of Mike's tyranny - Lucy always seemed super protective of Luka from what I remember of the old days, and appeared to considerably favor her younger son.

Sally’s obsession with children came from being handraised by the head keeper’s wife, who had young children at the time. Suzie was born six years earlier and while handraised, presumably didn’t have the same exposure to children since she was largely indifferent to them.

Articles from the chimpanzee’s move to Hamilton Zoo in 2004 note that Lucifer feared Mike. In another article, former Auckland Zoo director (Steven Stanley) described the culture of intimidation that developed in Auckland’s troop due to the small size of the exhibit, which left little opportunity for escape from conflict. The hand raised females grew particularly anxious and had to be separated overnight. During the first season of the Zoo, the overnight pairings were Mike and Lucifer; Lucy and Luka; Suzie and Sally. Typical of most chimpanzees mothers, Lucy focussed her attention on her youngest; and so Luka was sheltered from Mike to the point some thought he didn’t receive enough discipline.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Sally’s obsession with children came from being handraised by the head keeper’s wife, who had young children at the time. Suzie was born six years earlier and while handraised, presumably didn’t have the same exposure to children since she was largely indifferent to them.

Articles from the chimpanzee’s move to Hamilton Zoo in 2004 note that Lucifer feared Mike. In another article, former Auckland Zoo director (Steven Stanley) described the culture of intimidation that developed in Auckland’s troop due to the small size of the exhibit, which left little opportunity for escape from conflict. The hand raised females grew particularly anxious and had to be separated overnight. During the first season of the Zoo, the overnight pairings were Mike and Lucifer; Lucy and Luka; Suzie and Sally. Typical of most chimpanzees mothers, Lucy focussed her attention on her youngest; and so Luka was sheltered from Mike to the point some thought he didn’t receive enough discipline.

This would account for Luka's later boldness in standing up to Mike, since he didn't fear his father as much and had Lucy's backing.

I did observe Sally's fascination with children several times when I visited her at both Auckland and Hamilton Zoos. Of all the chimps except perhaps Chiku, she seemed to show the most interest in the visitors, no doubt due to her being hand-reared. I still have a photo somewhere of a rainy day in the Hamilton chimp house with me up near the window and Sally standing next to me - this was in 2019, I think.