ZooChat Challenge Great Britain, Ireland, and Crown Dependencies 2024

AlexanderTHG

Well-Known Member
To all British, Irish & any other intrigued ZooChatters,

Welcome to ZooChat Challenge Great Britain, Ireland, and Crown Dependencies 2024

Thanks to the cooperation of @Shorts, I bring to you the resurrection of the original ZooChat Challenge started by @Shorts 12 years ago. This time, however, I’m expanding the range of said challenge to include all of the following:

  • The United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland)
  • The Republic Of Ireland
  • The Isle Of Man
  • The Channel Islands (Guernsey, Jersey)

As such, any zoo within these isles/nations can count towards this year’s challenge. Speaking of which, here it is…

AMAZING AMPHIBIA

I’m starting off simple with this year’s challenge consisting of any species within the class Amphibia (the amphibians)!

I am hoping that a broad category will be easy to keep track of and interest the most people. In addition, amphibians are often not at the top of a typical zoo enthusiasts to-see list, so this will hopefully add interest to this diverse and fascinating class. There are approximately 150 amphibian species in the UK. This is based off Zootierliste, however, which is obviously not entirely accurate, especially for amphibians and smaller collections. In addition many amphibian specimens are often housed off-show. This should however add an extra bit of excitement to the challenge as you’ll never know what you may or may not see at a collection. With lots of rarities scattered across the whole country, this challenge should be accessible to all and shouldn’t be too hard to accumulate a decent score even if staying somewhat local. Of course some collections might be helpful to visit to be up at the top (perhaps Chester, Slimbridge, London, etc), however it should be nigh on impossible to see all on-show species in a calendar year. I reckon anything over 100 would be a very good score.

Of course, the same usual rules apply plus a couple of challenge specific ones:
1. You have to actually see the animal, even if just for a second.
2. Photographic proof is not required, your word is your bond.
3. You must see the animal from normal public access areas and during normal public opening hours (no special experiences)
4. Only species seen at a zoo in the geographic limits of the challenge can count in this challenge.
5. However, any private zoos or zoos with limited opening dates (BCS, Heythrop, etc) don’t count.
6. Record your tallies on this thread after each visit.
7. Whilst not compulsory, I would recommend including scientific names in your tally as many amphibian species have several, or no, agreed upon common names.
8. The winner will be the individual who has seen the most amphibian species by midnight 31st December 2024!

I’ll add extra emphasis on the species level. No subspecies, and try to use the IUCN classifications if unsure on current species splits. As always, taxonomy is never simple, and so some species are unclear. Any questions, just ask, and I or someone else will try to answer.

In short, you have exactly 12 months to see as many amphibian species as you can at any zoo in the challenge area. So without further ado…

…Let ZooChat Challenge Great Britain, Ireland, and Crown Dependencies 2024 commence!!!
 
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In case you weren’t aware, and as parameters for this challenge, the British Isles consists of:
- The United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland)
- The Republic Of Ireland
- The Isle Of Man
- The Channel Islands (Guernsey, Jersey)

Lest you cause some very dicey political debate, I suggest that you allow me to edit the geographic portion of the title to "Great Britain, Ireland and associated islands" :P

I reckon anything over 100 would be a very good score.

I reckon it would be impossible, given how many species are offshow-only :p but definitely a target to aim for!

8. Whilst there are no domestic amphibians, genetically bred colour morphs (such as albino axolotls, etc) won’t count. The species must be in their wild-type form. I’m happy to discuss/amend this though if people don’t agree.

I think that banning albino axolotls might cause issues - the vast, vast majority of axolotls in UK zoological collections are albino (or occur in mixed groups of albino and wild-type) and there isn't really any concrete record of which collections hold solely wild-type.... so ruling them out would a) mean that getting that species becomes a "lucky draw" of sorts and b) potentially require people to provide proof that the collection they visited does hold wild-type (which would break rule 2).

Given the fact that all axolotls in captivity (including wild-type) contain *some* hybrid blood way-back-when in any case, one possible way to resolve this issue if you definitely don't want to include any albino axolotls would be to ban axolotls entirely under rule 9.
 
I can understand the logic, but I would, personally, be reluctant to outright ban an otherwise viable animal, especially with such a comparatively small pool to begin with.
 
Lest you cause some very dicey political debate, I suggest that you allow me to edit the geographic portion of the title to "Great Britain, Ireland and associated islands" :p



I reckon it would be impossible, given how many species are offshow-only :p but definitely a target to aim for!



I think that banning albino axolotls might cause issues - the vast, vast majority of axolotls in UK zoological collections are albino (or occur in mixed groups of albino and wild-type) and there isn't really any concrete record of which collections hold solely wild-type.... so ruling them out would a) mean that getting that species becomes a "lucky draw" of sorts and b) potentially require people to provide proof that the collection they visited does hold wild-type (which would break rule 2).

Given the fact that all axolotls in captivity (including wild-type) contain *some* hybrid blood way-back-when in any case, one possible way to resolve this issue if you definitely don't want to include any albino axolotls would be to ban axolotls entirely under rule 9.

I didn't mean to start any political debates, but though that it would be a more concise title. By definition the British Isles includes Great Britain, Ireland, & The Isle Of Man. Most people also include the channel Islands as well. However, I'm happy for the name to be changed if it causes too much debate, but I just didn't want an overly long title.

Yes, 100 might be quite tricky to reach, but I'm sure some people will be able to have a good go at it!

I thought the 'wild-type' rule might be argued against. Your points are very true and so I'll happily scrap that rule as opposed to removing a whole species.

Cheers,
AlexanderTHG
 
I didn't mean to start any political debates, but though that it would be a more concise title. By definition the British Isles includes Great Britain, Ireland, & The Isle Of Man. Most people also include the channel Islands as well. However, I'm happy for the name to be changed if it causes too much debate, but I just didn't want an overly long title.

We shall see, I suppose! There are other terms which carry less baggage and are just as concise, but they are also rather less well-known.
 
I have just edited my original post, removing rules 8 and 9.

Further to the British Isles debate, both the Oxford and Collins English dictionaries include the channel islands in the definition of the 'British Isles'. Obviously dictionaries aren't necessarily politically correct, so if there is too much of an issue with the name then I am still happy for it to be amended if required.
 
The Irish government doesn’t recognise or use the term British Isles and it is extremely contentious. The first thing I thought when I saw this thread was why are people still using that politically loaded and anachronistic term.

Names of the British Isles - Wikipedia
 
The Irish government doesn’t recognise or use the term British Isles and it is extremely contentious. The first thing I thought when I saw this thread was why are people still using that politically loaded and anachronistic term.

Names of the British Isles - Wikipedia

I understand that this is contentious, and I didn't intend mean for it to be so politically loaded, which is why I am happy to have the thread title changed to a less contentious title, to avoid conflict.
 
I've amended the thread title to "ZooChat Challenge Great Britain, Ireland, and Crown Dependencies 2024" as this seems the clearest and least awkward-sounding option :) for further clarification, the reason I thought this point was worth highlighting is that the moderation team has historically had to clean up arguments about the term in question - best to avoid it happening again!

I think the discussion is worth retaining however - apart from anything else, it'll forestall people asking why the title is so awkwardly phrased or suggesting the thread be renamed *to* British Isles :p
 
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Currently going through the list of amphibians present in the UK to see where I may have to go. Certainly an interesting challenge, although how many I'll get is questionable.
 
There's exactly 149 species - I'd wager about 35 of those are off-show though, between Slimbridge and the various colleges. I'd be baffled if anyone did actually hit 100 but happy to be proven wrong. To do it, visits to Paignton, Chester, London and Manchester are in order.
 
I've never done a Challenge before, but I like amphibians so I decided to give it a go.

Chester Zoo 2/1/2024
1 Fea's Tree Frog
2 Blue Poison Frog
3 Strawberry Poison Frog
4 Rio Maraon Poison Frog
5 Golden Poison Frog
6 Golden Mantella
7 White-bellied Reed Frog
8 Titicaca Frog.

I thought I saw a Cinnamon Frog as well but it turned out to be a dead leaf.
 
Edited to include scientific names

Chester Zoo 2/1/2024
1 Fea's Tree Frog Rhacophorus feae
2 Blue Poison Frog Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
3 Strawberry Poison Frog Oophaga pumilio
4 Rio Maranon Poison Frog Excidobates mysteriosus
5 Golden Poison Frog Phyllobates terribilis
6 Golden Mantella Mantella aurantiaca
7 White-bellied Reed Frog Heterixalus alboguttatus
8 Titicaca Frog Telmatobius culeus
 
For the purpose of this challenge are Blue Poison Frogs Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus' and Dyeing Poison Frogs Dendrobates tinctorius ' considered to be the same species, or two different taxa?
 
For the purpose of this challenge are Blue Poison Frogs Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus' and Dyeing Poison Frogs Dendrobates tinctorius ' considered to be the same species, or two different taxa?
Yes, for this challenge they will be considered the same species
 
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