Which is the better option?

pangolin12

pangolin12

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
5+ year member
Hi,
I am visiting the eastern states of America for a zoo tour and a few Canadian collections this August, and my schedule is now pretty much full. I have 2 days left which will coincide with my drive from Toronto to Pittsburgh. Travel time does not particularly bother me as i will have my own hire car and am willing to drive long distances, and I have a very tough choice to make for the last two days:

Cincinatti + Columbus, or Detroit + Toledo?

My main focus is rarities. New species are what helped me to decide all of the other collections I am visiting, so if anyone could please provide some rarities kept at any of these collections that may be of interest then that would be very helpful indeed:)

Also, does Detroit still display Wyoming toad? Because that may be a massive help in my decision:D

Many thanks!!
 
pangolin12 said:
Hi,
I am visiting the eastern states of America for a zoo tour and a few Canadian collections this August, and my schedule is now pretty much full. I have 2 days left which will coincide with my drive from Toronto to Pittsburgh. Travel time does not particularly bother me as i will have my own hire car and am willing to drive long distances, and I have a very tough choice to make for the last two days:

Cincinatti + Columbus, or Detroit + Toledo?

My main focus is rarities. New species are what helped me to decide all of the other collections I am visiting, so if anyone could please provide some rarities kept at any of these collections that may be of interest then that would be very helpful indeed:)

Also, does Detroit still display Wyoming toad? Because that may be a massive help in my decision:D

Many thanks!!
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If you like herps, the Detroit and Toledo combination can't be beat, imo. I recently visited both of these facilities, and there are lots of rare species in top-tier exhibits, and Toledo also has an impressive aviary with a number of rare birds. At Detroit, there aren't many rarities outside of amphibians (though there are a few), but they have some of the highest quality exhibitry I've ever seen, so it's a zoo that I'd highly recommend.

Notable rarities I saw at Detroit include (but are not limited to): Southern sea otter, wolverine, Anatolian crested newt, Texas blind cave salamander, black-legged poison dart frog, narrow-striped dwarf siren, fringed leaf frog, Texas blind cave salamander, McCord's box turtle, Savu Island python

Notable rarities I saw at Toledo include (but are not limited to): Tasmanian devil, golden white-eye, Raggiana bird of paradise, kagu, cheer pheasant, greater black-backed gull, tuatara, saltwater crocodile, spotted-tail cave salamander, Blanding's tree snake, inland taipan, puff adder, jumping viper, European long-nosed viper, Indian saw scaled viper, Kaup's caecilian, spectacled eider, long-tailed duck

While I have never been to Cincinnati, and it's been very long time since I've been to Columbus, but both should have some notable rarities too, such as potto and aardwolf at Cincy, or koalas and bonobos at Columbus. That said, I suspect most members who have been to all the facilities would place either Columbus or Cincinnati above Pittsburgh (assuming the zoo is why you are going there) on their rankings, so without knowing the rest of your itinerary there may be some other facilities worth de-prioritizing to fit in Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, and Toledo.
 
I've been to all but Detroit. I would definitely put Toledo as #1 in terms of rarities, most of them are herps but they have some birds and fish as well, and have the polar bears (becoming hard to find these days!). The Africa section is underwhelming but everything else there makes up for it, I feel, especially if you like historical stuff (well, it's practically new coming from the UK ;) but for here it's some of the oldest zoo buildings still being used!)

I would personally put Columbus over Detroit as the second zoo. There are some rarities there too, including a few herps and birds, the manatees, wolverine, moose, wombat, tasmanian devils, and geoffroy's cat. I think the theming is something someone coming from European zoos should really experience!

Unless you're super into fish (that are mostly unsigned), I would skip Pittsburgh Zoo and instead either go to Cincinnati as well, or combine the National Aviary and the Carnegie Museum of Natural History.
 
I think the answer really depends on what taxa groups you are most interested in seeing. Cincinnati and Toledo have the most arthropod rarities by far, but is that what you are most interested in?

Cincy has some good mammals like potto, aardwolf, and aye-aye, but these are around to varying degrees in the UK and Europe as well. Toledo is best for bird rarities, and I have the impression that Columbus is probably the most 'American' zoo out there. Guam Rail is also at Cincy, and the reptile house at Toledo possibly may be still undergoing work by August.
 
Hi all, many thanks for the replies, this is very helpful

Here are the collections I will be visiting so if there is anything else that could be of interest then I’d be more than happy to hear it:):
Bronx zoo
Central Park Zoo
Prospect Park Zoo (mainly for chinese red panda)
Bergen County Zoo (Brockets)
Cold Spring Harbor Aquarium (Lots of native amphibians)
New York Aquarium
Trailside Museums and Zoo (Muskrat)
Mystic Aquarium (Largha seals)
Buttonwood Park Zoo (Nancy Mas monkey)
Animal Adventures Family Zoo (A horrid looking place from what I’ve seen so I am still undecided but pale fox is a major draw for me)
Stone Zoo (Whooping crane)
New England Aquarium
Maine Wildlife Park
Aquarium Du Quebec (Harp seals)
Zoo Sauvage de St Felicien
Zoo d Granby
Biodome Montreal
Ecomuseum zoo (Fishers)
Scales Nature Park (Native Canadian herps)
Toronto Zoo
Bird Kingdom Niagara (Amphiumas)
Detroit Zoo
Toledo Zoo
Akron Zoo
Pittsburgh Zoo (Possible swap for Columbus)
National Aviary
Smithsonian National Zoo
Catoctin Wildlife Preserve (Macaques)
National Aquarium
Philadelphia Zoo
ZooAmerica (Black footed ferret, American marten)

If there is anything else in regards to rarities in any of the areas around the aforementioned collections then feel free to add:)
 
CMP said:
I think the answer really depends on what taxa groups you are most interested in seeing. Cincinnati and Toledo have the most arthropod rarities by far, but is that what you are most interested in?

Cincy has some good mammals like potto, aardwolf, and aye-aye, but these are around to varying degrees in the UK and Europe as well. Toledo is best for bird rarities, and I have the impression that Columbus is probably the most 'American' zoo out there. Guam Rail is also at Cincy, and the reptile house at Toledo possibly may be still undergoing work by August.
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Indeed, I am fortunate enough to have been able to see all but the Guam rail here in Europe, do you know if Philly’s are still there / on show?

Also, is anyone aware whether there are Wyoming toads on display at Detroit?

Many thanks
 
I wish you luck on your trip and you certainly do have a lot of collections on your itinerary! :eek: I look forward to hearing how many new species you acquire. Have a good visit! :)
 
pangolin12 said:
Hi all, many thanks for the replies, this is very helpful

Here are the collections I will be visiting so if there is anything else that could be of interest then I’d be more than happy to hear it:):
Bronx zoo
Central Park Zoo
Prospect Park Zoo (mainly for chinese red panda)
Bergen County Zoo (Brockets)
Cold Spring Harbor Aquarium (Lots of native amphibians)
New York Aquarium
Trailside Museums and Zoo (Muskrat)
Mystic Aquarium (Largha seals)
Buttonwood Park Zoo (Nancy Mas monkey)
Animal Adventures Family Zoo (A horrid looking place from what I’ve seen so I am still undecided but pale fox is a major draw for me)
Stone Zoo (Whooping crane)
New England Aquarium
Maine Wildlife Park
Aquarium Du Quebec (Harp seals)
Zoo Sauvage de St Felicien
Zoo d Granby
Biodome Montreal
Ecomuseum zoo (Fishers)
Scales Nature Park (Native Canadian herps)
Toronto Zoo
Bird Kingdom Niagara (Amphiumas)
Detroit Zoo
Toledo Zoo
Akron Zoo
Pittsburgh Zoo (Possible swap for Columbus)
National Aviary
Smithsonian National Zoo
Catoctin Wildlife Preserve (Macaques)
National Aquarium
Philadelphia Zoo
ZooAmerica (Black footed ferret, American marten)

If there is anything else in regards to rarities in any of the areas around the aforementioned collections then feel free to add:)
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That is a LOT of driving! Please feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions as well, I've been to all but a couple of the smaller places on your list and I'm probably the only one lol.

Prospect Park will likely still be closed next August, recent flooding devastated the zoo.

Ecomuseum doesn't have fishers. Maine Wildlife Park and Zoo Sauvage both do, though :) When you go to Ecomuseum, head for their exhibit first, as the keepers put out food in various spots before letting them out so they'll be walking around hunting for food. I probably spent an hour watching them on my visit! Later they disappear into the trees (it is a massive, massive exhibit).

I would 1000% pick Columbus over Pittsburgh, no hesitation at all. I've been to both multiple times.

IMO Animal Adventures isn't worth getting to see the pale fox. It's that bad.
 
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pangolin12 said:
Indeed, I am fortunate enough to have been able to see all but the Guam rail here in Europe, do you know if Philly’s are still there / on show?

Also, is anyone aware whether there are Wyoming toads on display at Detroit?

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Philly still has the exhibit and they're usually visible :)
 
For Chinese red panda, Columbus has a large group :) Zoo Sauvage's are Chinese, as well as Granby's, Toledo's, and Toronto's.
 
pangolin12 said:
Bronx zoo
Central Park Zoo
Prospect Park Zoo (mainly for chinese red panda)
Bergen County Zoo (Brockets)
Cold Spring Harbor Aquarium (Lots of native amphibians)
New York Aquarium
Trailside Museums and Zoo (Muskrat)
Mystic Aquarium (Largha seals)
Buttonwood Park Zoo (Nancy Mas monkey)
Animal Adventures Family Zoo (A horrid looking place from what I’ve seen so I am still undecided but pale fox is a major draw for me)
Stone Zoo (Whooping crane)
New England Aquarium
Maine Wildlife Park
Aquarium Du Quebec (Harp seals)
Zoo Sauvage de St Felicien
Zoo d Granby
Biodome Montreal
Ecomuseum zoo (Fishers)
Scales Nature Park (Native Canadian herps)
Toronto Zoo
Bird Kingdom Niagara (Amphiumas)
Detroit Zoo
Toledo Zoo
Akron Zoo
Pittsburgh Zoo (Possible swap for Columbus)
National Aviary
Smithsonian National Zoo
Catoctin Wildlife Preserve (Macaques)
National Aquarium
Philadelphia Zoo
ZooAmerica (Black footed ferret, American marten)

If there is anything else in regards to rarities in any of the areas around the aforementioned collections then feel free to add:)
Click to expand...
Your motivations are clearly different than what mine would be for a similar trip, so if this doesn't speak to your interests I apologize:
  • Bronx Zoo is a no-brainer for a trip like this, one of the country's best zoos (my personal favorite I've visited) and home to a number of species that aren't commonly seen in zoos here. Make sure you hit Congo Gorilla Forest, Wild Asia Monorail, Madagascar!, the Gelada Reserve, Sea Bird Aviary, and Zoo Center to see the best of what Bronx has to offer, but really the whole place is incredible.
  • Central Park is a great choice as well, make sure you hit the Children's Zoo as that is where their impressive sea duck aviary is.
  • As @TinoPup mentioned, Chinese red panda aren't exactly rare here, there are multiple other places you will see them.
  • Bergen County is a really unique place, the red brocket deer were really easy to see on my visit.
  • NY Aquarium really blew me away on my visit- especially the sharks exhibit!
  • Mystic Aquarium and Buttonwood Park Zoo are both really nice places, the latter has a lot of rare waterfowl as well. If you are hitting southern New England, I'd suggest also hitting Roger Williams Park Zoo, as while they don't necessarily have anything extremely rare it is a very nice zoo, and you might be interested in the fact they have pronghorn, Sichuan takin, Masai giraffe, giant river otters, red wolves, blue-throated piping guans, and giant wood rails. (This would also be another possible place to see the Chinese red panda).
  • I would recommend to everyone to NEVER head to Animal Adventures, by far the worst zoo I've ever been to.
  • Stone Zoo is really nice, and has a lot of really naturalistic sections. Mexican grey wolves might be another species of interest to you here.
  • Any particular reason for including New England Aquarium? Unless you are going specifically for a certain species, they don't really have much super notable that warrants prioritizing it over other collections, at least in my opinion.
  • I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to Bird Kingdom, it has a very tacky/touristy feel and isn't as impressive as they make it sound. If you are going that way to see the falls anyways, there's no reason not to go, but if you are making that trek just to see amphiumas, know that Cincinnati and Philadelphia also have amphiumas.
  • Any particular reason to prioritize Akron over Cleveland? I've only been to the latter, and I think most would rate it higher. Cleveland also is home to Allen's swamp monkeys and bontebok, both of which I know are rare-to-nonexistent in Europe.
  • @TinoPup would know better than me, but you may want to evaluate where you have ZooAmerica in the order, as I reckon it'd be less out of the way if placed between Pittsburgh and DC, instead of after Philadelphia.
  • Very close to the Philadelphia Zoo is the Elmwood Park Zoo, which you may be interested in knowing has white-throated woodrats.
 
Neil chace said:
Your motivations are clearly different than what mine would be for a similar trip, so if this doesn't speak to your interests I apologize:
  • Bronx Zoo is a no-brainer for a trip like this, one of the country's best zoos (my personal favorite I've visited) and home to a number of species that aren't commonly seen in zoos here. Make sure you hit Congo Gorilla Forest, Wild Asia Monorail, Madagascar!, the Gelada Reserve, Sea Bird Aviary, and Zoo Center to see the best of what Bronx has to offer, but really the whole place is incredible.
  • Central Park is a great choice as well, make sure you hit the Children's Zoo as that is where their impressive sea duck aviary is.
  • As @TinoPup mentioned, Chinese red panda aren't exactly rare here, there are multiple other places you will see them.
  • Bergen County is a really unique place, the red brocket deer were really easy to see on my visit.
  • NY Aquarium really blew me away on my visit- especially the sharks exhibit!
  • Mystic Aquarium and Buttonwood Park Zoo are both really nice places, the latter has a lot of rare waterfowl as well. If you are hitting southern New England, I'd suggest also hitting Roger Williams Park Zoo, as while they don't necessarily have anything extremely rare it is a very nice zoo, and you might be interested in the fact they have pronghorn, Sichuan takin, Masai giraffe, giant river otters, red wolves, blue-throated piping guans, and giant wood rails. (This would also be another possible place to see the Chinese red panda).
  • I would recommend to everyone to NEVER head to Animal Adventures, by far the worst zoo I've ever been to.
  • Stone Zoo is really nice, and has a lot of really naturalistic sections. Mexican grey wolves might be another species of interest to you here.
  • Any particular reason for including New England Aquarium? Unless you are going specifically for a certain species, they don't really have much super notable that warrants prioritizing it over other collections, at least in my opinion.
  • I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to Bird Kingdom, it has a very tacky/touristy feel and isn't as impressive as they make it sound. If you are going that way to see the falls anyways, there's no reason not to go, but if you are making that trek just to see amphiumas, know that Cincinnati and Philadelphia also have amphiumas.
  • Any particular reason to prioritize Akron over Cleveland? I've only been to the latter, and I think most would rate it higher. Cleveland also is home to Allen's swamp monkeys and bontebok, both of which I know are rare-to-nonexistent in Europe.
  • @TinoPup would know better than me, but you may want to evaluate where you have ZooAmerica in the order, as I reckon it'd be less out of the way if placed between Pittsburgh and DC, instead of after Philadelphia.
  • Very close to the Philadelphia Zoo is the Elmwood Park Zoo, which you may be interested in knowing has white-throated woodrats.
Click to expand...

Most of the species you mentioned for Roger Williams are at other places on the list ;) Pronghorn at zooamerica for example (and he is adorable), giant otters at Philly.
Thre's a few sharks and fish at New England Aquarium that are more unique, and the shorebirds, but I agree it's one of the more skippable places, especially in terms of amount of time/cost vs species seen.
I don't know what amphiuma Bird Kingdom has, but Cinci and Philly have different species - two-toed at Cinci, one-toed at Philly.
I would put Akron over Cleveland, to be honest (except for the cheetahs :p), unless there's a specific species in mind. LOVED Akron but I found Cleveland rather underwhelming.
ZooAmerica is definitely better after Philly than between Pittsburgh and DC, especially with Catoctin in there.
Definitely <3 the woodrats at Elmwood! I'd hesitate on recommending it as part of a plan that's for 8 months from now, though, since they have so much construction going on and we don't know what will be opened/closed then. The trail of the jaguar should be open, at any rate.

@pangolin12 is your list in the order you're visiting? If so I have a few recommendations there as well that would make it easier!
 
TinoPup said:
I would put Akron over Cleveland, to be honest (except for the cheetahs :p), unless there's a specific species in mind. LOVED Akron but I found Cleveland rather underwhelming.
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Interesting, I haven't heard much love for Akron on here. It's one of the long day trips I want to make sure I take over the next few years, but may need to push it up my priority list.
 
Neil chace said:
Interesting, I haven't heard much love for Akron on here. It's one of the long day trips I want to make sure I take over the next few years, but may need to push it up my priority list.
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I found that surprising, too, after visiting! I wasn't sure what to expect since it doesn't get much mention on here but it's one of the few zoos where it far exceeded my expectations. There's some non-AZAs you could combine it with in warmer months, or the Cleveland Museum of Natural History (which has a zoo) or the aquarium or something.
 
pangolin12 said:
Animal Adventures Family Zoo (A horrid looking place from what I’ve seen so I am still undecided but pale fox is a major draw for me)
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I’ve been here a few times and let me just say it’s definitely not worth it. If you’re in New England and you need more of a zoo fix I’d suggest southwick’s. They don’t have anything super rare but overall it’s a pretty decent zoo and you could combine it with other places if you have a car
 
TinoPup said:
I found that surprising, too, after visiting! I wasn't sure what to expect since it doesn't get much mention on here but it's one of the few zoos where it far exceeded my expectations. There's some non-AZAs you could combine it with in warmer months, or the Cleveland Museum of Natural History (which has a zoo) or the aquarium or something.
Click to expand...
My most likely thought would be either this spring or next fall, and combine it with Erie Zoo (as I'd need to drive through Erie anyways on the way). It all depends on whether my schedule gives me enough free time to go, of course (I always seem to come up with more plans to visit zoos than I could possibly have time for, lol).
 
Neil chace said:
My most likely thought would be either this spring or next fall, and combine it with Erie Zoo (as I'd need to drive through Erie anyways on the way). It all depends on whether my schedule gives me enough free time to go, of course (I always seem to come up with more plans to visit zoos than I could possibly have time for, lol).
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Sounds like a good plan :) Erie is on my one day list, it's just a little too far. And let me tell you about making plans that don't happen :D
 
Pittsburgh Zoo is the only place in the US that has Northern Elephant Seal, I don;t know if they are more common in Europe, though Columbus has more rarities overall
 
TinoPup said:
It isn't, and she's very rarely on exhibit during opening hours. I've never seen her.
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She is the only one on display though, right? I know they are held at a couple of research labs, but I don’t believe any of them display theirs publicly.
 
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