Australasian Orangutan Population

[Zoofan15]

Auckland Zoo orangutans' integration update!

When I arrived at the zoo on Saturday morning, all four orangutans were on the aerial pathways and making very active use of them, especially Daya. According to staff, she really loves being up there and made several rounds, making only momentary viewing stops. She was even slender enough to sit in one of the feeding baskets at the top of a pole.

Little Bahmi is also becoming more daring on the aerial pathways, traversing several sections on his own under the watchful eye of mother Melur. He even started heading out across the lake, but then stopping when he realized he'd gone further than he was comfortable with, and turned around and headed back to Melur who helped him to safety atop one of the towers.

As far as the family group's interactions with Daya are going, Melur appears to tolerate Daya and does not seem to be intervening protectively when Bahmi starts up his antics. Charlie is being, according to staff, "very respectful" towards the newcomer, perhaps because she is not yet in season. Bahmi continues his infatuation with Daya, pestering her to play with him quite frequently, and she appears to be a lot more tolerant of his presence.

Charlie’s disinterest in Daya is typical for a male orangutan. Atjeh at Perth similarly ignored non-cycling females. Occasionally close pairs like Kluet and Karta and Charlie and Gangsa form; but they’re the exception for this solitary/semi-social species. Charlie has matured into a gentle, patient male over the years. He wasn’t so popular with Indra in his adolescence.

Bahmi has grown up so much in the past few months. It was exciting to see him independently climbing the trees in their exhibit back in November, but to see him climbing the aerial pathway will he even more exciting.

Assuming Bahmi follows the same trajectory as Madju, his interest in Daya will only increase. His relationship with Wanita has often been discussed; but equally interesting was his relationship with Charlie (who he often sought to engage in play once he reached the juvenile years). Daya may be tolerant now; but once she has an infant, this will wear off, especially since Bahmi will be captivated by the novelty of seeing an infant orangutan. Its a unique situation for Auckland Zoo as Intan and Datuk had each other for entertainment, which would have taken the focus off Isim; while Isim was seperated off an adolescent when Madju arrived; who in turn was exported well before the birth of Bahmi 17 years later.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Charlie’s disinterest in Daya is typical for a male orangutan. Atjeh at Perth similarly ignored non-cycling females. Occasionally close pairs like Kluet and Karta and Charlie and Gangsa form; but they’re the exception for this solitary/semi-social species. Charlie has matured into a gentle, patient male over the years. He wasn’t so popular with Indra in his adolescence.

Bahmi has grown up so much in the past few months. It was exciting to see him independently climbing the trees in their exhibit back in November, but to see him climbing the aerial pathway will he even more exciting.

Assuming Bahmi follows the same trajectory as Madju, his interest in Daya will only increase. His relationship with Wanita has often been discussed; but equally interesting was his relationship with Charlie (who he often sought to engage in play once he reached the juvenile years). Daya may be tolerant now; but once she has an infant, this will wear off, especially since Bahmi will be captivated by the novelty of seeing an infant orangutan. Its a unique situation for Auckland Zoo as Intan and Datuk had each other for entertainment, which would have taken the focus off Isim; while Isim was seperated off an adolescent when Madju arrived; who in turn was exported well before the birth of Bahmi 17 years later.

Very true, about males ignoring non-cycling females. According to staff, Charlie was intensely interested in Daya while she was still behind mesh, but at present he is still showing a marked preference for Melur. Early in my morning visit, there was the familiar growling and snarling from the top of one of the towers!

Bahmi has become so independent, it's staggering. Apparently, Melur will often stay inside when the orangutans have access to both their on and off display areas, letting Bahmi go out to play without her being around to watch over him, which he will often do if Daya is still outside. Late yesterday afternoon, Daya had emerged from the indoor area with an armful of wood wool and a blanket, intending to nest and sleep by the window (and presumably, get some respite from Bahmi!) But it wasn't to be, for the little guy soon emerged and started pestering her to play, swinging around, grabbing for her hands and even smacking her on the head several times! Tired-looking Daya tolerated this for a while, but eventually gave up and went back indoors. Bahmi, typically, soon followed her!

 

[Zoofan15]

Very true, about males ignoring non-cycling females. According to staff, Charlie was intensely interested in Daya while she was still behind mesh, but at present he is still showing a marked preference for Melur. Early in my morning visit, there was the familiar growling and snarling from the top of one of the towers!

Bahmi has become so independent, it's staggering. Apparently, Melur will often stay inside when the orangutans have access to both their on and off display areas, letting Bahmi go out to play without her being around to watch over him, which he will often do if Daya is still outside. Late yesterday afternoon, Daya had emerged from the indoor area with an armful of wood wool and a blanket, intending to nest and sleep by the window (and presumably, get some respite from Bahmi!) But it wasn't to be, for the little guy soon emerged and started pestering her to play, swinging around, grabbing for her hands and even smacking her on the head several times! Tired-looking Daya tolerated this for a while, but eventually gave up and went back indoors. Bahmi, typically, soon followed her!

I too have heard Melur growling loudly from the towers at Charlie (sitting inches away from her). Now Bahmi isn’t attached to her 24/7, she’s getting some independence back and particularly once she resumes cycling again, I anticipate she’ll become more receptive to him once again. While they’ve never been as close as Charlie was with Gangsa, they’ve been noted to have had a positive relationships in previous years.

Madju was particularly precocious compared to Indra’s two offspring, as a result of Melur being very relaxed with him and exerting very little discipline. It appears history will repeat itself with Bahmi. Madju began mating with Melur from the age of six years and came into conflict with Charlie much earlier than Isim (who even at 10-12 years wasn’t mating with females). Depending on how much longer Charlie is around for, this could well be the case for Bahmi. Good thing they have that second exhibit!

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I too have heard Melur growling loudly from the towers at Charlie (sitting inches away from her). Now Bahmi isn’t attached to her 24/7, she’s getting some independence back and particularly once she resumes cycling again, I anticipate she’ll become more receptive to him once again. While they’ve never been as close as Charlie was with Gangsa, they’ve been noted to have had a positive relationships in previous years.

Madju was particularly precocious compared to Indra’s two offspring, as a result of Melur being very relaxed with him and exerting very little discipline. It appears history will repeat itself with Bahmi. Madju began mating with Melur from the age of six years and came into conflict with Charlie much earlier than Isim (who even at 10-12 years wasn’t mating with females). Depending on how much longer Charlie is around for, this could well be the case for Bahmi. Good thing they have that second exhibit!

I agree with all of this. Although the presence of Daya will change a lot of the dynamics in the colony, A lot will depend on whether Bahmi does follow Madju's trajectory of precociousness, which seems likely.

Hopefully Charlie will be around long enough to sire an infant to Daya, and hopefully one more to Melur (as it looks more and more unlikely that Gangsa will reproduce successfully, leaving Laki's line underrepresented). I often wonder if choosing a female orangutan of Daya's young years was strategic, as she will still be of prime breeding age when Bahmi matures, if the zoo retain Bahmi as breeding male, and a Bahmi x Daya infant will still be highly valuable.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree with all of this. Although the presence of Daya will change a lot of the dynamics in the colony, A lot will depend on whether Bahmi does follow Madju's trajectory of precociousness, which seems likely.

Hopefully Charlie will be around long enough to sire an infant to Daya, and hopefully one more to Melur (as it looks more and more unlikely that Gangsa will reproduce successfully, leaving Laki's line underrepresented). I often wonder if choosing a female orangutan of Daya's young years was strategic, as she will still be of prime breeding age when Bahmi matures, if the zoo retain Bahmi as breeding male, and a Bahmi x Daya infant will still be highly valuable.

I imagine Daya’s selection was based on multiple factors. Aside from her genetic value, it makes sense like you say to bring in a young animal. It takes a lot of effort to import and an adolescent will be of reproductive value to the zoo/region for the next 2-3 decades; versus a middle aged female nearing the end of her reproductive years.

An adolescent female would theoretically be more submissive to the resident adults than an adult female, who would be more assertive and potentially cause conflict. Importing a juvenile would satisfy many of the above factors, but an adolescent is basically ready to go in the here and now, which is important when they might not have Charlie for long. I therefore hope they don’t delay breeding Daya for too much longer; and in my mind, there’s little to no justification for doing so. Indra had her offspring at 8 and 13 and proved an excellent mother. Dara was 12 and equally competent.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I imagine Daya’s selection was based on multiple factors. Aside from her genetic value, it makes sense like you say to bring in a young animal. It takes a lot of effort to import and an adolescent will be of reproductive value to the zoo/region for the next 2-3 decades; versus a middle aged female nearing the end of her reproductive years.

An adolescent female would theoretically be more submissive to the resident adults than an adult female, who would be more assertive and potentially cause conflict. Importing a juvenile would satisfy many of the above factors, but an adolescent is basically ready to go in the here and now, which is important when they might not have Charlie for long. I therefore hope they don’t delay breeding Daya for too much longer; and in my mind, there’s little to no justification for doing so. Indra had her offspring at 8 and 13 and proved an excellent mother. Dara was 12 and equally competent.

I've heard that there is a recommended age of 14 for first-time great ape mothers (although I can't find any similar age limit for fathers), although in recent years much younger females have given birth successfully. Melur's own mother, Yasmin, gave birth to Melur at the age of 10. And Daya has the advantage of seeing younger siblings born and raised, so she will have good role modelling as a mother.

So, I too hope that they will not delay too long in breeding from Daya and Charlie. Although, given Madju's early start in the mating game, we could see similar behaviour from Bahmi in the future, especially if he goes on to establish a positive bond with Daya!

 

[Zoofan15]

I've heard that there is a recommended age of 14 for first-time great ape mothers (although I can't find any similar age limit for fathers), although in recent years much younger females have given birth successfully. Melur's own mother, Yasmin, gave birth to Melur at the age of 10. And Daya has the advantage of seeing younger siblings born and raised, so she will have good role modelling as a mother.

So, I too hope that they will not delay too long in breeding from Daya and Charlie. Although, given Madju's early start in the mating game, we could see similar behaviour from Bahmi in the future, especially if he goes on to establish a positive bond with Daya!

I can’t say I’m a believer in the delaying breeding until mid-teens method (especially with chimpanzees). There’s extensive data that supports adolescent females making no less competent mothers than those who aren’t bred for an additional 5-8 years. Female orangutans like Indra and Dara are an example of this; as is Yasmin and females at Taronga and Perth who bred young.

I think there’s a happy medium to be found between allowing an ape to breed at the extreme (seven or eight years) and waiting until their mid-teens. 10-12 years seems a good balance in terms of allowing them to grow to near full size and learn maternal skills through observation.

You’re correct, there’s no age recommendation in males. Fully flanged male orangutans are usually more attractive to females; but plenty of unflanged adolescents and subadults have succeeded in siring infants.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I can’t say I’m a believer in the delaying breeding until mid-teens method (especially with chimpanzees). There’s extensive data that supports adolescent females making no less competent mothers than those who aren’t bred for an additional 5-8 years. Female orangutans like Indra and Dara are an example of this; as is Yasmin and females at Taronga and Perth who bred young.

I think there’s a happy medium to be found between allowing an ape to breed at the extreme (seven or eight years) and waiting until their mid-teens. 10-12 years seems a good balance in terms of allowing them to grow to near full size and learn maternal skills through observation.

You’re correct, there’s no age recommendation in males. Fully flanged male orangutans are usually more attractive to females; but plenty of unflanged adolescents and subadults have succeeded in siring infants.

I agree. While there are some instances of very young mothers rejecting their infants, it's not always the case. I sponsor a young mother orangutan named Rickina through The Orangutan Project, and by all accounts she is a wonderful mother to her baby boy! There is no accounting for what might happen even with an older mother - to use Yasmin as an example again, she could not bond with her son Kecil due to birth complications and necessary medical intervention, and he had to be fostered out - even though Yasmin had previously successfully raised offspring and went on to successfully mother her youngest son, Wakil.

I think the odds are in favour of Daya being a good mother, though. And you're right, subadult and unflanged young adult males can indeed successfully sire infants. An obvious example being Madju - by all accounts, Luna Bella preferred him to the flanged males she was offered!

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Another Daya integration update from Auckland Zoo - partly witnessed by me and partly reported by zoo staff.

On Saturday, I saw Melur sitting in one of the window nests with Daya, grooming her for an extended period of time as she often did with the late Wanita. Zoo staff confirmed that Melur and Daya seem to be having grooming sessions more often of late, so it's a sign that Daya has well and truly been accepted into the colony. Bahmi, of course, took this opportunity to annoy Daya, trying to entice her to play by whacking her on the head and biting her; Daya actually smacked Bahmi a couple of times, which didn't seem to deter him one bit. Charlie, meanwhile, was asleep in the habitat's central tree as it was too windy for the aerial pathways at that time.

Zoo staff have also confirmed that Daya has been approaching Charlie and seeking his companionship of late, which is encouraging as orangutan breeding seems to depend a lot on female choice. And I did speak to another member of the keeper team later that day, talking about Bahmi's fascination with Daya, and they confirmed that a Bahmi x Daya infant could indeed be a possibility for the future, which indicates that the zoo may decide to retain Bahmi as their future breeding male.

 

[Zoofan15]

Another Daya integration update from Auckland Zoo - partly witnessed by me and partly reported by zoo staff.

On Saturday, I saw Melur sitting in one of the window nests with Daya, grooming her for an extended period of time as she often did with the late Wanita. Zoo staff confirmed that Melur and Daya seem to be having grooming sessions more often of late, so it's a sign that Daya has well and truly been accepted into the colony. Bahmi, of course, took this opportunity to annoy Daya, trying to entice her to play by whacking her on the head and biting her; Daya actually smacked Bahmi a couple of times, which didn't seem to deter him one bit. Charlie, meanwhile, was asleep in the habitat's central tree as it was too windy for the aerial pathways at that time.

Zoo staff have also confirmed that Daya has been approaching Charlie and seeking his companionship of late, which is encouraging as orangutan breeding seems to depend a lot on female choice. And I did speak to another member of the keeper team later that day, talking about Bahmi's fascination with Daya, and they confirmed that a Bahmi x Daya infant could indeed be a possibility for the future, which indicates that the zoo may decide to retain Bahmi as their future breeding male.

Thanks for the update.

That’s good Melur and Daya are getting on well together. Personality wise, they’re very compatible. Melur is sweet natured by all accounts and was never the instigator of the previous fights and feuds detailed in the previous colony. Having so much space (especially with the aerial lines) and Melur’s current disinterest in Charlie would also help.

It makes sense to retain Bahmi as by the time he’s an adolescent, Melur will be in her early 40’s and no longer needed for breeding (i.e. it not necessary to have a breeding male unrelated to Melur). Instead, Auckland Zoo will have a trio of orangutans (Bahmi, Melur and Daya) that are all compatible and can be housed together without conflict. Bahmi and Daya will be the breeding pair; and by that stage, the colony may also include a couple of juveniles (sired by Charlie before his death).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Thanks for the update.

That’s good Melur and Daya are getting on well together. Personality wise, they’re very compatible. Melur is sweet natured by all accounts and was never the instigator of the previous fights and feuds detailed in the previous colony. Having so much space (especially with the aerial lines) and Melur’s current disinterest in Charlie would also help.

It makes sense to retain Bahmi as by the time he’s an adolescent, Melur will be in her early 40’s and no longer needed for breeding (i.e. it not necessary to have a breeding male unrelated to Melur). Instead, Auckland Zoo will have a trio of orangutans (Bahmi, Melur and Daya) that are all compatible and can be housed together without conflict. Bahmi and Daya will be the breeding pair; and by that stage, the colony may also include a couple of juveniles (sired by Charlie before his death).

Watching Wild Heroes showed me that Daya's personality was taken into account when selecting her for Auckland Zoo. So far, she has shown herself to be gentle and relaxed (when Bahmi isn't pestering her ) and I agree that she is a wonderful fit for our colony. Although Melur and Wanita were close, I sometimes saw conflict between them, instigated by Wanita due to her feistier personality (and usually promptly broken up by Charlie). Daya seems far less likely to instigate tension.

I truly hope that they will retain Bahmi. Not only because I am so very fond of him, but because, as you've said here, there will be an already established and harmonious group when Bahmi matures, and he will be well placed to breed with Daya when Charlie eventually passes. Possibly Auckland might decide to import another female further down the line, but they will be off to a good start with a Bahmi x Daya infant.

 

[Zoofan15]

Watching Wild Heroes showed me that Daya's personality was taken into account when selecting her for Auckland Zoo. So far, she has shown herself to be gentle and relaxed (when Bahmi isn't pestering her ) and I agree that she is a wonderful fit for our colony. Although Melur and Wanita were close, I sometimes saw conflict between them, instigated by Wanita due to her feistier personality (and usually promptly broken up by Charlie). Daya seems far less likely to instigate tension.

I truly hope that they will retain Bahmi. Not only because I am so very fond of him, but because, as you've said here, there will be an already established and harmonious group when Bahmi matures, and he will be well placed to breed with Daya when Charlie eventually passes. Possibly Auckland might decide to import another female further down the line, but they will be off to a good start with a Bahmi x Daya infant.

Long term, I’d like to see a second adolescent female imported. Husbandry guidelines recommend young orangutans have peers and Auckland are well placed to achieve this by breeding Daya and Melur with Charlie in the coming years. Perhaps a five year gap between Bahmi and Melur’s next offspring; with Daya’s born in between:

2022: Bahmi
2025: Daya’s first infant
2027: Melur’s fourth infant

While personality surely plays a part, I don’t doubt it was any coincidence that the mothers in the previous colony (Indra and Melur) for the most part minded their own business. They were focussed on their offspring and more than happy for the other females to divert the attention of the males away from them. Even Indra, who had a strong personality, was never mentioned as the source of conflict and accepted the three incoming females from Taronga.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Long term, I’d like to see a second adolescent female imported. Husbandry guidelines recommend young orangutans have peers and Auckland are well placed to achieve this by breeding Daya and Melur with Charlie in the coming years. Perhaps a five year gap between Bahmi and Melur’s next offspring; with Daya’s born in between:

2022: Bahmi
2025: Daya’s first infant
2027: Melur’s fourth infant

While personality surely plays a part, I don’t doubt it was any coincidence that the mothers in the previous colony (Indra and Melur) for the most part minded their own business. They were focussed on their offspring and more than happy for the other females to divert the attention of the males away from them. Even Indra, who had a strong personality, was never mentioned as the source of conflict and accepted the three incoming females from Taronga.

I agree - and personally hope that there isn't too long a delay in breeding from Daya as Bahmi will still be a juvenile and able to engage in a play-based relationship when Daya's infant is old enough. And it's true what you've said, mothers usually mind their own business and focus on their infants. With Daya beginning to approach Charlie, Melur can get a well-deserved rest, at least until she resumes cycling. And Daya's presence also gives her a little bit of independence from Bahmi, as he has someone else to focus on while Melur feeds and relaxes!

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree - and personally hope that there isn't too long a delay in breeding from Daya as Bahmi will still be a juvenile and able to engage in a play-based relationship when Daya's infant is old enough. And it's true what you've said, mothers usually mind their own business and focus on their infants. With Daya beginning to approach Charlie, Melur can get a well-deserved rest, at least until she resumes cycling. And Daya's presence also gives her a little bit of independence from Bahmi, as he has someone else to focus on while Melur feeds and relaxes!

No more than three years between Melur and Daya’s infants would be preferable. Bahmi turns two years old on Wednesday and would be considerably larger/more developed than a newborn infant. If we’re to assume he’s around three years old by the time Daya gives birth, then any real interaction (play fighting, wrestling) between the two wouldn’t safely occur until the new baby was three (and Bahmi was six). If the age gap was larger (say, four years), then the difference in strength/ability between them will be even more pronounced. By the time the younger infant was four years of age, the eight year would be entering adolescence for example.

Allowing Daya to give birth next year ensures a three year gap between Bahmi and Daya’s first infant; and as per above, would mean Daya’s first infant and Melur’s fourth infant are born 2-3 years apart (depending on whether Melur has a five or six year birth interval).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

No more than three years between Melur and Daya’s infants would be preferable. Bahmi turns two years old on Wednesday and would be considerably larger/more developed than a newborn infant. If we’re to assume he’s around three years old by the time Daya gives birth, then any real interaction (play fighting, wrestling) between the two wouldn’t safely occur until the new baby was three (and Bahmi was six). If the age gap was larger (say, four years), then the difference in strength/ability between them will be even more pronounced. By the time the younger infant was four years of age, the eight year would be entering adolescence for example.

Allowing Daya to give birth next year ensures a three year gap between Bahmi and Daya’s first infant; and as per above, would mean Daya’s first infant and Melur’s fourth infant are born 2-3 years apart (depending on whether Melur has a five or six year birth interval).

Personally, I hope they do allow Daya to give birth next year instead of waiting for her to turn 14 or 15. Not just for the sake of Charlie's genes, but because, as you've said, as minimal a gap as possible between the youngsters would be desirable. Certainly no more of a gap than there was between Pairi Daiza brothers Berani and Mathai, who were playmates in their early days.

 

[Zoofan15]

Personally, I hope they do allow Daya to give birth next year instead of waiting for her to turn 14 or 15. Not just for the sake of Charlie's genes, but because, as you've said, as minimal a gap as possible between the youngsters would be desirable. Certainly no more of a gap than there was between Pairi Daiza brothers Berani and Mathai, who were playmates in their early days.

It’d have been interesting to see the dynamics between Intan (1989), Datuk (1989) and Isim (1994). Indra was an assertive female, so I imagine Datuk wouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near Isim in the first year; but as Isim began to wander away from Indra (around 18-24 months), there may have been some interaction. It was around this time (1996) that Datuk was exported to Taronga Zoo. By today’s standards, seven years seem young; but Dara, Horst, Indra and Charlie were all 3-6 years old upon import, so it would certainly have been considered an acceptable age at the time and may have diffused tensions in the colony if Indra/Isim were finding Datuk a hindrance.

Perth Zoo have usually had infants close together:

0.1 Sekara (1990) and 0.1 Temara (1992)
0.1 Pulang (1993) and 0.1 Negara (1993)
1.0 Semeru (2005) and 1.0 Nyaru (2007)
0.1 Teliti (2009)
1.0 Sungai (2011) and 0.1 Lestari (2012)

I understand the rationale in recent years was as much around providing first time mothers with the experience of observing maternal skills from a more experienced female immediately prior to giving birth.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

It’d have been interesting to see the dynamics between Intan (1989), Datuk (1989) and Isim (1994). Indra was an assertive female, so I imagine Datuk wouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near Isim in the first year; but as Isim began to wander away from Indra (around 18-24 months), there may have been some interaction. It was around this time (1996) that Datuk was exported to Taronga Zoo. By today’s standards, seven years seem young; but Dara, Horst, Indra and Charlie were all 3-6 years old upon import, so it would certainly have been considered an acceptable age at the time and may have diffused tensions in the colony if Indra/Isim were finding Datuk a hindrance.

Perth Zoo have usually had infants close together:

0.1 Sekara (1990) and 0.1 Temara (1992)
0.1 Pulang (1993) and 0.1 Negara (1993)
1.0 Semeru (2005) and 1.0 Nyaru (2007)
0.1 Teliti (2009)
1.0 Sungai (2011) and 0.1 Lestari (2012)

I understand the rationale in recent years was as much around providing first time mothers with the experience of observing maternal skills from a more experienced female immediately prior to giving birth.

I too would have loved to see the dynamics between Auckland's earliest young orangutans - they seem quite different from Madju, and later Bahmi, from what you've told me, probably due to Melur's more lenient parenting. I'd have been very interested to see how Intan interacted with the others, since she was the sole female infant to survive to adulthood born at Auckland Zoo, and whether there were differences between male and female juveniles in terms of behaviours.

Daya has the advantage of being around to see her younger siblings born and raised, and also has the opportunity to observe Melur parenting Bahmi. So, as a young mother she would have a very low risk of rejecting her baby due to inexperience, showing even less necessity to delay breeding from her for an extended length of time.

 

[Zoofan15]

I too would have loved to see the dynamics between Auckland's earliest young orangutans - they seem quite different from Madju, and later Bahmi, from what you've told me, probably due to Melur's more lenient parenting. I'd have been very interested to see how Intan interacted with the others, since she was the sole female infant to survive to adulthood born at Auckland Zoo, and whether there were differences between male and female juveniles in terms of behaviours.

Daya has the advantage of being around to see her younger siblings born and raised, and also has the opportunity to observe Melur parenting Bahmi. So, as a young mother she would have a very low risk of rejecting her baby due to inexperience, showing even less necessity to delay breeding from her for an extended length of time.

I too would be interested to know about the interactions of the original colony. It’s reasonable to assume that Intan and Datuk (both two months apart) had numerous play-based interactions as they grew up. Intan, who was five years old when Indra gave birth to Isim, would have been the perfect age to observe maternal skills and surely benefited a lot from this experience.

It was mentioned on The Zoo that Auckland Zoo intended to replicate the long birth intervals of the species - with Dara’s birth in 2000 planned to be the first since Isim was born in 1994. I suspect this was as much around population control; while breeding regularly enough to maintain social practices. Intan would have been an adolescent of 11 years when Darli was born, which would have perhaps been a final opportunity to observe maternal care before giving birth herself.

Had Dara/Darli not died in 2000, then it’s likely they would have continued breeding from this colony; possibly with Charlie and Intan producing the next infant. I guess we’ll never know…

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I too would be interested to know about the interactions of the original colony. It’s reasonable to assume that Intan and Datuk (both two months apart) had numerous play-based interactions as they grew up. Intan, who was five years old when Indra gave birth to Isim, would have been the perfect age to observe maternal skills and surely benefited a lot from this experience.

It was mentioned on The Zoo that Auckland Zoo intended to replicate the long birth intervals of the species - with Dara’s birth in 2000 planned to be the first since Isim was born in 1994. I suspect this was as much around population control; while breeding regularly enough to maintain social practices. Intan would have been an adolescent of 11 years when Darli was born, which would have perhaps been a final opportunity to observe maternal care before giving birth herself.

Had Dara/Darli not died in 2000, then it’s likely they would have continued breeding from this colony; possibly with Charlie and Intan producing the next infant. I guess we’ll never know…

It's fascinating to see what might have been if Auckland Zoo held on to the original colony and if Dara and Darli had lived - we could have seen Charlie x Intan and Isim x Darli infants in the future, perhaps.

And it's encouraging to see the peaceful dynamic zoo staffed hoped for developing between Daya and Melur, in particular, because IIRC that was an area of concern, possible conflict between the females. I am pretty optimistic for the colony's future at this stage, not only with Bahmi continuing to grow up healthy and meeting all his milestones, but with Daya now making approaches to Charlie and (mostly) being patient with Bahmi's antics!

 

[Zoofan15]

It's fascinating to see what might have been if Auckland Zoo held on to the original colony and if Dara and Darli had lived - we could have seen Charlie x Intan and Isim x Darli infants in the future, perhaps.

And it's encouraging to see the peaceful dynamic zoo staffed hoped for developing between Daya and Melur, in particular, because IIRC that was an area of concern, possible conflict between the females. I am pretty optimistic for the colony's future at this stage, not only with Bahmi continuing to grow up healthy and meeting all his milestones, but with Daya now making approaches to Charlie and (mostly) being patient with Bahmi's antics!

On hindsight, it would have made a lot of sense for Horst to have replaced Datuk at Taronga Zoo. Horst was well represented in Auckland’s colony with two offspring (Intan and Isim). They wouldn’t have bred Horst for a third time with Indra; nor would they have repeated the pairing between him and Dara. The third female (Intan) was his daughter. He was therefore redundant to their breeding programme at that point in time.

From here, Charlie was a potential mate for Dara, Indra and Intan; and Isim and Darli could have been paired like you suggest.

I feel like Taronga continuing as a second holder would have prevented Auckland from initiating a phase out of the Bornean species in the 2000’s. Being the only Bornean holder in the region certainly would have added weight to the argument of phasing out in favour of the critically endangered Sumatran species.