Bronx Zoo Bronx Zoo monorail discussion

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Cat-Man

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15+ year member
Moderator note: topic split from this thread Bronx Zoo News 2024 [Bronx Zoo]


Even if there was a plan to be able to view the monorail animals on foot I would believe it when I see it. I just don't understand why it has to close over winter? It's a very short sighted decision.

Sadly, despite being a world class zoo, could punch higher but doesn't for a variety of reasons. When was the last major exhibit opened there? It seems they have suffered this last decade whilst the other parks were invested in.
 
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Cat-Man said:
Even if there was a plan to be able to view the monorail animals on foot I would believe it when I see it. I just don't understand why it has to close over winter? It's a very short sighted decision.

Sadly, despite being a world class zoo, could punch higher but doesn't for a variety of reasons. When was the last major exhibit opened there? It seems they have suffered this last decade whilst the other parks were invested in.
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It's not short-sighted at all, rather the opposite. Keeping the trains indoors helps preserve them and means they'll last longer. As has been mentioned elsewhere on here, the company that made/fixed monorails went out of business years ago, so fixing/replacing anything broken is difficult and costly, if it can be done at all. The tracks also freeze easily, creating conditions that aren't safe to operate in. You also have moving vehicles that are open to the air, blowing cold wind on peoples' faces. The risk of people having health issues, the track being unsafe, and the trains being damaged by the cold isn't worth it, especially when few people are going to be riding it in the winter vs summer.

The other parks have been invested in because they needed to be. WCS money goes to all of the parks as needed. Millions of unplanned dollars had to go to the aquarium after hurricane Sandy, and now they're having to heavily invest in Prospect Park due to the flood damage. They need to keep money aside for future weather problems that are occurring more often now, and likely have to constantly work on upgrading employee/behind the scenes areas due to how old the buildings are.
 
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TinoPup said:
It's not short-sighted at all, rather the opposite. Keeping the trains indoors helps preserve them and means they'll last longer. As has been mentioned elsewhere on here, the company that made/fixed monorails went out of business years ago, so fixing/replacing anything broken is difficult and costly, if it can be done at all. The tracks also freeze easily, creating conditions that aren't safe to operate in. You also have moving vehicles that are open to the air, blowing cold wind on peoples' faces. The risk of people having health issues, the track being unsafe, and the trains being damaged by the cold isn't worth it, especially when few people are going to be riding it in the winter vs summer.

The other parks have been invested in because they needed to be. WCS money goes to all of the parks as needed. Millions of unplanned dollars had to go to the aquarium after hurricane Sandy, and now they're having to heavily invest in Prospect Park due to the flood damage. They need to keep money aside for future weather problems that are occurring more often now, and likely have to constantly work on upgrading employee/behind the scenes areas due to how old the buildings are.
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It’s not even like the zoo has been completely lacking updates. In a past few years the zoo has added attractions that don’t really appeal to us zoo nerds such as Treetop Adventure, Nature Trek, and Budgie Landing. The zoo has also renovated many exhibits including the 2nd floor of the World of Birds (twice,) the Children’s Zoo, Zoo Center, Dancing Crane Cafe, and now the Pheasant Aviary along with new exhibits for Dhole and Slender-Horned Gazelle among a few others and that’s not even considering the $146,000,000 state of the art Ocean Wonders: Sharks exhibit at the aquarium which was planned long before Sandy. Additionally, the zoo has obtained and maintained rarities across the past decade, something many other AZA zoos aren't doing.
 
TinoPup said:
It's not short-sighted at all, rather the opposite. Keeping the trains indoors helps preserve them and means they'll last longer. As has been mentioned elsewhere on here, the company that made/fixed monorails went out of business years ago, so fixing/replacing anything broken is difficult and costly, if it can be done at all. The tracks also freeze easily, creating conditions that aren't safe to operate in. You also have moving vehicles that are open to the air, blowing cold wind on peoples' faces. The risk of people having health issues, the track being unsafe, and the trains being damaged by the cold isn't worth it, especially when few people are going to be riding it in the winter vs summer.

The other parks have been invested in because they needed to be. WCS money goes to all of the parks as needed. Millions of unplanned dollars had to go to the aquarium after hurricane Sandy, and now they're having to heavily invest in Prospect Park due to the flood damage. They need to keep money aside for future weather problems that are occurring more often now, and likely have to constantly work on upgrading employee/behind the scenes areas due to how old the buildings are.
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Spending all that money on an attraction that can’t operate for six months of the year is extremely short sighted. I’m not particularly sympathetic to the arguments presented in your first paragraph I’m afraid.

Agree re development at the other parks. I don’t and have never argued it was a bad thing those parks received investment, especially the aquarium after hurricane Sandy. But it is a statement of fact that investment in those parks has meant Bronx has not received as much, although I’ll admit that is a bit simplistic and that there are other factors in play.


KiwiBirb said:
It’s not even like the zoo has been completely lacking updates. In a past few years the zoo has added attractions that don’t really appeal to us zoo nerds such as Treetop Adventure, Nature Trek, and Budgie Landing. The zoo has also renovated many exhibits including the 2nd floor of the World of Birds (twice,) the Children’s Zoo, Zoo Center, Dancing Crane Cafe, and now the Pheasant Aviary along with new exhibits for Dhole and Slender-Horned Gazelle among a few others and that’s not even considering the $146,000,000 state of the art Ocean Wonders: Sharks exhibit at the aquarium which was planned long before Sandy. Additionally, the zoo has obtained and maintained rarities across the past decade, something many other AZA zoos aren't doing.
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Thanks for highlighting the developments over the last two decades, it’s good to see how the zoo continues to move forward. I do think, however, it is worth pointing out in that time that several exhibits have been lost, such as rare animal range, the nocturnal house and the monkey house.
 
Cat-Man said:
Spending all that money on an attraction that can’t operate for six months of the year is extremely short sighted. I’m not particularly sympathetic to the arguments presented in your first paragraph I’m afraid.

Agree re development at the other parks. I don’t and have never argued it was a bad thing those parks received investment, especially the aquarium after hurricane Sandy. But it is a statement of fact that investment in those parks has meant Bronx has not received as much, although I’ll admit that is a bit simplistic and that there are other factors in play.




Thanks for highlighting the developments over the last two decades, it’s good to see how the zoo continues to move forward. I do think, however, it is worth pointing out in that time that several exhibits have been lost, such as rare animal range, the nocturnal house and the monkey house.
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... It's not like this is some new thing they just bought. Monorails used to be everywhere and were viewed as the transportation of the future, having one was a big deal. They are clearly doing a great job caring for it given it's the only surviving zoo monorail and one of only a few left in the whole country, and it doesn't seem to be under any threat of shutting down. Calling something that opened in 1977 "short-sighted" is laughable.

Those exhibits were lost because of the costs involved to completely redo those areas. The exhibits were too small and the buildings weren't safe. They're historic buildings, which adds a ton of complications to any work being done.
 
TinoPup said:
... It's not like this is some new thing they just bought. Monorails used to be everywhere and were viewed as the transportation of the future, having one was a big deal. They are clearly doing a great job caring for it given it's the only surviving zoo monorail and one of only a few left in the whole country, and it doesn't seem to be under any threat of shutting down. Calling something that opened in 1977 "short-sighted" is laughable.
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Has the monorail always operated seasonally or when it first opened was it in operation for the entire year?

TinoPup said:
Those exhibits were lost because of the costs involved to completely redo those areas. The exhibits were too small and the buildings weren't safe. They're historic buildings, which adds a ton of complications to any work being done.
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That context is important. Obviously Bronx has a bunch of other factors it has to take into account of when developing and maintaining building owing to the fact it’s such an old zoo, but they aren’t the only ones with these costs associated. Would you happen to know which buildings at the zoo were closed down due to safety factors? I was under the impression that these closures were principally a result of the loss of city funding in the aftermath of the financial crash.
 
I feel it's always important to remind people that New York City is THE most expensive city in the United States for construction costs. The WCS has five parks to run, in the most expensive city in the nation to build in, while facing increasing weather-related threats to their sites, while also managing one of the largest campuses/collections in the nation (and world), and has to worry about the historical value of most of the structures at the Bronx, all while not receiving the same level of support from the municipal government that many other major US zoos do. It's really not a surprise at all that they can't keep up with the same level of massive redevelopments that other major players like Omaha and San Diego can. But then again, when exhibits built in the 1940's and 70's still hold up against exhibits built within the last decade, maintenance over growth really doesn't bother me so much...

Cat-Man said:
Spending all that money on an attraction that can’t operate for six months of the year is extremely short sighted.
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I feel @TinoPup covered this comment well......

~Thylo
 
Cat-Man said:
I do think, however, it is worth pointing out in that time that several exhibits have been lost, such as rare animal range, the nocturnal house and the monkey house.
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Personally, I'd much rather a zoo choose to close an exhibit that they know has fallen behind the times (which at least in the case of the Monkey House had certainly happened), than keep it open until the zoo has the budget to renovate/replace it. Too often zoos keep outdated exhibits open just because "we don't have the resources to replace it right now", so I love seeing Bronx, at least in these cases, simply stop keeping these exhibits!
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I feel @TinoPup covered this comment well......

~Thylo
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I'm glad you feel like that was covered well but it's still not great from a visitors perspective that one of the zoos major attractions is not open and as such a large number of animals cannot be seen. I'm sorry if this banal & uncontroversial statement has caused offence, but I stand by it. I say this from a position of somebody who has visited Bronx Zoo many times (admittedly, not as much as you here, though) and has come away with only positive experience.
 
Neil chace said:
Personally, I'd much rather a zoo choose to close an exhibit that they know has fallen behind the times (which at least in the case of the Monkey House had certainly happened), than keep it open until the zoo has the budget to renovate/replace it. Too often zoos keep outdated exhibits open just because "we don't have the resources to replace it right now", so I love seeing Bronx, at least in these cases, simply stop keeping these exhibits!
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Yes, I would also agree here, it shows the quality and maturity of the management.
 
Cat-Man said:
I'm glad you feel like that was covered well but it's still not great from a visitors perspective that one of the zoos major attractions is not open and as such a large number of animals cannot be seen. I'm sorry if this banal & uncontroversial statement has caused offence, but I stand by it. I say this from a position of somebody who has visited Bronx Zoo many times (admittedly, not as much as you here, though) and has come away with only positive experience.
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Oh I agree it's not great from a visitor perspective, I just think calling the opening of a monorail back in 1977 when monorails were incredibly popular an "extremely short sighted" decision to be ridiculous. I don't love the reality of the situation either, but when the only other realistic option they have is closure of the exhibit entirely (which is the path pretty much every other zoo has taken), I'm not sure what you expect them to do?

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Oh I agree it's not great from a visitor perspective, I just think calling the opening of a monorail back in 1977 when monorails were incredibly popular an "extremely short sighted" decision to be ridiculous. I don't love the reality of the situation either, but when the only other realistic option they have is closure of the exhibit entirely (which is the path pretty much every other zoo has taken), I'm not sure what you expect them to do?

~Thylo
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Do you know, has the monorail always been seasonal, or when it first open was it able to operate for the entirety of the year?
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I don't know, no.

~Thylo
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If it was always seasonal, I have to say I standby my statement that it would have been short sighted to invest heavily in an attraction where so many species can only be viewed for half of the year. It is perhaps short sighted anyway. By the admission of two people on this forum the monorail was built whilst monorails were very popular - well they aren't very popular now! They're often viewed as an impractical, eccentric fad.

In terms of what I expect them to do, it's pretty obvious I expect them to correct it! But I am well aware that the funds are unlikely to be there for that to be done, and I won't criticise them of that.
 
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Cat-Man said:
If it was always seasonal, I have to say I standby my statement that it would have been short sighted to invest heavily in an attraction where so many species can only be viewed for half of the year.

In terms of what I expect them to do, it's pretty obvious I expect them to correct it! But I am well aware that the funds are unlikely to be there for that to be done, and I won't criticise them of that.
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I mean if that was the case, you can't exactly call it short-sighted when it's been one of the zoo's most popular exhibits for over 45 years.

"In terms of what I expect them to do, it's pretty obvious I expect them to correct it!"
...
I see.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I mean if that was the case, you can't exactly call it short-sighted when it's been one of the zoo's most popular exhibits for over 45 years.

"In terms of what I expect them to do, it's pretty obvious I expect them to correct it!"
...
I see.

~Thylo
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I would argue it's technically one of the least popular attractions at the zoo considering it can only be used half of the year! :p It has a distinct disadvantage over most of their other exhibits - which can be viewed at your leisure every day they're opened!

Alas, I digress..
 
Cat-Man said:
I would argue it's technically one of the least popular attractions at the zoo considering it can only be used half of the year! :p It has a distinct disadvantage over most of their other exhibits - which can be viewed at your leisure every day they're opened!

Alas, I digress..
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And yet, it remains one of the most popular attractions in spite of its short-sightedness :p

~Thylo
 
Cat-Man said:
If it was always seasonal, I have to say I standby my statement that it would have been short sighted to invest heavily in an attraction where so many species can only be viewed for half of the year. It is perhaps short sighted anyway. By the admission of two people on this forum the monorail was built whilst monorails were very popular - well they aren't very popular now! They're often viewed as an impractical, eccentric fad.

In terms of what I expect them to do, it's pretty obvious I expect them to correct it! But I am well aware that the funds are unlikely to be there for that to be done, and I won't criticise them of that.
Click to expand...

Cat-Man said:
I would argue it's technically one of the least popular attractions at the zoo considering it can only be used half of the year! :p It has a distinct disadvantage over most of their other exhibits - which can be viewed at your leisure every day they're opened!

Alas, I digress..
Click to expand...

I think there's a difference between an ideal world and the real world. We could argue all we want about whether the monorail was a wise investment in the 1970's, when many, if not most, zoochatters weren't alive yet (myself included), but the short of the story is it exists today, for better or for worse.

In the Northeastern US, most amusement parks and other places with lots of rides are seasonal attractions. It's simply too dangerous to have these places open in the winter due to ice on the tracks, and can produce unnecessary wear and tare on the ride vehicles as well. In that regard, Bronx Zoo isn't unusual for having this attraction only open seasonally, and given the potential for ice on the tracks it likely would not be safe to open in the winters anyways. Given that more and more zoos are either closing in the winter or only opening on certain days anyways, it also seems very reasonable for such a large zoo to have certain of their more costly to operate attractions closed in the winter when crowds are reduced anyways. Most visitors are unlikely to see the entire zoo in one day anyways, and there's plenty else to explore even with the monorail closed. I'm sure you'd rather the monorail closed, than for the Bronx Zoo to decide to close entirely on weekdays during the winter.

Now, in an ideal world, even though the monorail doesn't work in the winter, the animals would still be visible. I am not disagreeing with that fact. However, we don't live in an ideal world, and it'd be practically extremely costly and difficult to create a way to maintain the monorail while having a walking trail in that area. Given how much walking there already is at the Bronx Zoo, I for one think having the monorail for half the year, which is a great place to rest your legs while seeing the animals, is a better (imperfect) solution than if that area was only a walking trail. Of course, if the monorail did close, there's also the very real possibility of Bronx taking the Dallas approach and suddenly having some exhibits simply not longer visible to the public. I'm sure that isn't what anyone wants either.

Perhaps the only possible solution I could think of would be to somehow find a way to make the animals from the monorail visible elsewhere in the zoo during the winter. This is already a reality for the tigers (in Tiger Mountain) and red pandas (in Himalayan Highlands), but logistically I'm not sure if it'd be at all feasible (or advisable) to, say, move a herd of ungulates to another location in the winter so that the public could view them.
 
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