It sounds like a decent sized Komodo exhibit (at least when the indoor/outdoor areas are combined, so a full grown dragon would also arguably make a better display animal than Taronga’s relatively small 23 month old.
Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
It sounds like a decent sized Komodo exhibit (at least when the indoor/outdoor areas are combined, so a full grown dragon would also arguably make a better display animal than Taronga’s relatively small 23 month old.
Getting one of these big 5 to 6 meter problem crocs they are talking about that are problem in the top end would be perfect out there. It's not like they don't have the ability to have a heated pool to keep them during winter.
Agreed, and it doesn't get as cold out in Dubbo as it does in Sydney too.
A large natural river system for a few of them would be amazing. Even if an indoor pool is needed, this could also provide guests with an underwater viewing of them too and could even be themed around being 'Croc safe'. Only the zoos up North do this, but it's surprising to me as more often than not it's actually visitors from the South who end up in precarious positions with crocs up North.
That’s a good point. When I was last in tropical North Queensland, I noticed no shortage of cassowary and crocodile warning signs (even within captive facilities); but like you, didn’t see much in educational signage further south. People do travel inter-state, so it’d be beneficial to educate all Australians (and tourists even more so).
Underwater viewing of the Saltwater crocodiles are also a great idea. I took these photos last year and both exhibits were popular with the public on my visits. I remember having to go back to the Ballarat one because it was too crowded to get a decent shot on my first loop past.
Ballarat Wildlife Park:
Melbourne Aquarium:
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Dubbo is def colder then Sydney in winter during the nights and cold snaps. But not substantially so not to the degree that they couldn't heat water and keep a salties.
I agree! that would be amazing. If they could build it over near the new platypus centre and do up a nice little native animal area around it. They could really build up a nice native area. They do great work with bilbies, quolls, native birds etc. And of memory not that many are actually on display. A native area that feeds into people being croc wise, and other conservation initiatives that they work with is sorely missing. And species like quolls, bilbies, numbats and tree roos etc are native species not a lot of zoos really invest in. So it would be a native area that country people/visitors from Aus would be interested in. Instead of the typical koala, wombat, dingo type displays you see more commonly.
Osedax
Well-Known Member
They do currently have a small native section, but it is just emus, Tas. devils, a wallaby/emu walkthrough and a mixed exhibit with koalas, quokkas and echidnas. Apart from the new platypus centre, the only other natives they have on display are several bird species in the wildlife hospital aviary - Scaly-breasted and Little Lorikeets, zebra finches, whipbirds and Regent Honeyeaters. Off display there are bilbies, chuditch, malleefowl, White-winged Choughs and Plains-wanderers.
Could very well be improved though.
Werribee do their Australian section quite well with the theming and variety of species they have there. Without Healseville, I feel like we'd potentially have a far better display of species diversity wise.
I havent been to western plains in a few years good to see they have at least got something native going on!.
Still with all there breeding work with quolls and bilbies. Its a shame they dont put more effort into exhibiting these species. Considering they have extensive breeding operations for them, they have access to be able to exhibit non breeding animals without the worry of needing to breed.
Open range zoos will always play a valuable role in the breeding and raising of native bird species that thrive in the absence of humans.
While it’d please me to shuffle off all natives to the open range zoos and see their city counterparts double down on exotics, I acknowledge Taronga especially (with Dubbo so far away), must cater to the international market in the exhibition of kangaroos, koalas etc.
I know Zoos Victoria has also excelled in the breeding of native reptiles at Melbourne Zoo, where they have the facilities to manage breeding without detracting from larger exotics.
It actually does get cold in Dubbo during the winter. I can be quite frosty during June and July albeit not freezing but it can get to 3 or 4 degrees sometimes close to 1 and be quite chilly; but that's certainly not to say don't like your idea and given what Zoos NSW has been willing to do in infrastructure it certainly would be something that could happen with indoor heating technologies during the cold few months (summer and spring very much makes up for it) and they could still very much look after several Salties with their facilities.
(I like the setup photos you showed @Zoofan15 with Melbourne Aquarium and Ballarat, really greate examples)
I think the idea you guys have makes sense with how Sydney and Dubbo partner and when a decision is made for Dubbo to become a significant holder of a captivating larger kind of animal like Cheetahs, (Common) Hippopotamuses and soon to be for all of Zoo NSW's Eles' (and Giraffes & Zebras for breeding last several decades). Saltwater Crocodiles would be a very exciting addition to the Australian precinct which has just had a very exciting new arrivals with the Platypuses.
Was quite interested few years ago to hear a mention it was believed at the dawn of humankind or just before there may have been Crocodiles that reached the Barwon river area around Brewarrina and Bourke (strong ties between those towns and Dubbo, while 300km north of Dubbo in country town distances they are fairly close and a lot of people from those towns have moved to Dubbo, have family there and visit frequently, and almost all Dubbo residents are familiar with, having mention of that in the information displayed about Crocodiles would really interest local people too I think, on top of the conservation message about hunting of Crocodiles being ceased in the 1960's & '70s and the monitoring work of populations across northern Australia). A rigorously maintained indoor facility with big pools for the individual Crocs and viewing glass for the public would be an interesting experience for visitors during the winter months at Dubbo, inside river like exhibits connected and separated where needed (ie females safe from big males) like you thought of . Rest of the year they could have several massive ponds/pools outside with river like systems connecting so each croc has at least two big pools they can travel between via a river like channel, similar size to the Hippo exhibits, probably larger, and can probably manage several adult females and one or two adult males separately.
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That’s an interesting idea to house multiple Saltwater crocodiles. Like you say, a large indoor facility would need to be dedicated to their housing in winter, which. Their latest investment on that scale is of course the Platypus HQ; and beyond that, they’re looking at an indoor barn for the elephants (for the same reason, to house the matriarchal herd indoor for an extended period over winter). I recall how excited I was to see all the different crocodile exhibits when I visited Australia Zoo, so something on a comparable scale would surely interest visitors - both domestic and international.
Dubbo has certainly been overtaken by Monarto in development; and even Werribee, so I hope they continue to progress beyond plans for a generic integrated savannah. Rhinos (three species) are one of their flagship species and so I’m excited to see their participation in the Australian Rhino Project.
Beyond that, I think housing a great ape species should be Dubbo’s goal. Either Taronga’s gorillas; or an off-shoot troop of chimpanzees derived from Taronga’s 21 strong community.
@Zoofan15
Totally agree. Feels like a long time coming hey that Dubbo could be a home to a troop of (African) great apes like Taronga's Gorillas like you pointed out (still very surprised by that potential phase out) or Chimpanzees derived from Taronga's community like you said, with like you know that idea 30 years ago Dubbo considered housing a bachelor troop.
For some reason I think Orangutans might never be the choice for Dubbo, but then again, have learnt to never say never lol
Totally agree. Feels like a long time coming hey that Dubbo could be a home to a troop of (African) great apes like Taronga's Gorillas like you pointed out (still very surprised by that potential phase out) or Chimpanzees derived from Taronga's community like you said, with like you know that idea 30 years ago Dubbo considered housing a bachelor troop.
For some reason I think Orangutans might never be the choice for Dubbo, but then again, have learnt to never say never lol
It’d be great to see Dubbo house a chimpanzee troop and I think serious consideration should be given to them housing a bachelor troop.
I would start by transferring Shona (non-breeding) and Sembe (future breeding) to Rockhampton Zoo:
0.1 Shona (09/10/1987) Unknown x Sutu
0.1 Sembe (27/02/2008) Lubutu x Shiba
Then, I would then transfer over the following males to Dubbo:
1.0 Samaki (27/11/2001) Lubutu x Shiba
1.0 Furahi (28/02/2003) Lubutu x Kuma
1.0 Shikamoo (25/07/2003) Lubutu x Sacha
1.0 Sule (04/04/2008) Lubutu x Sacha
1.0 Sudi (09/08/2014) Shikamoo x Shiba
1.0 Liwali (22/09/2014) Samaki x Lisa
This would leave Taronga with the following:
1.0 Shabani (14/09/1994) Monte x Shiba
1.0 Fumo (16/10/2013) Shikamoo x Kuma
1.0 Niambi (07/10/2020) Sudi x Naomi
0.1 Lisa (23/08/1979) Unknown x Lulu
0.1 Sacha (11/06/1980) Unknown x Spitter
0.1 Shiba (22/05/1981) Unknown x Susie
0.1 Ceres (19/09/1990) Toto x Jenny; Imported 2015
0.1 Kuma (06/12/1991) Snowy x Ficha
0.1 Kamili (02/09/1995) Snowy x Koko
0.1 Naomi (25/01/2001) Toto x Jenny; Imported 2015
0.1 Safiri (16/05/2019) Sudi x Shiba
0.1 Lemba (23/05/2023) Unknown x Lisa
0.1 Cekiri (29/07/2023) Unknown x Ceres
In an ideal world, the genetically valuable Shabani would be left as the sole reproductive age male; but socially, it’s advisable to hold three adult males. I’d therefore retain Fumo and Niambi as a compromise (Niambi for his age and genetic value). Shabani is a genetically valuable male via his paternal grandmother and also his mother and would hopefully get a decent shot at breeding. They could risk vasectomising Fumo, but Shabani’s unforeseen death would leave them without an reproductive age male.
Lisa, Sacha and Shiba would be retired; while breeding continues with Kuma, Ceres and Naomi. From here, they could look at bringing in new females to boost numbers when Safiri, Lemba and Cekiri leave in a decade or so.
Thank you.
Sending Sembe to Rockhampton is the commonsense move that I’m surprised hasn’t happened already. There’s no better time than now, with Rockhampton needing new females and I feel it would be mutually beneficial for Shona to go with her. Shona has no ties to the Taronga community and would fare better in a small troop, where her inability to breed isn’t a detriment.
Kuma’s position would be strengthened. Kuma’s 11 year old son would likely assume the alpha position in this scenario and with Kuma breeding again, her ranking would rise. Naomi is in her prime and breeding again this year (as well as being the mother of a four year old son) would cement her ranking as one of the highest ranking females.
Shiba’s ranking would stabilise as she would retain some level of status through her son, Shabani. The most affected would be Sacha, following the removal of her two sons, which is something to consider. Decisions regarding transferring out Safiri and Lemba could be made in a decade or so, perhaps with consideration being given to retaining Lemba until after Lisa’s death.
Perhaps we may see a move like this sooner rather than later! I would be very surprised if Sembe wasn't moved on, and obviously this year presents the right window if she was to go to Rockhampton. They'd probably want to wait a while, until at least Jerry is fully integrated with the group, but nevertheless this should be a no brainer move asap.
Shiba has adequate support within the community at the moment, especially with her youngest daughter Safiri soon reaching adolescence.
loganjmuir
Well-Known Member
Considering the loss of Holly in late 2022, and now Samantha, Gandali's 'surrogate' following his mother's death, leaves Rockhampton in a tricky situation. With their predominantly male troop, this only leaves Leakey as the resident breeding female. I'm unsure whether Cassius and Jerry are sterile but due to their past, I'm assuming so. So there is really only two viable breeding Chimps at what has been regarded as one of the regions 'breeding facilities'. To me this presents not only an opportunity for Rocky to get back onto their feet, but also for Taronga. In my opinion, it is not whether or not Sembe is transferred, but rather when. If someone could let me know how old Sembe is that would be awesome, because in 7 or 8 years Gandali will be available for breeding, and Sembe could present him that opportunity. Mzuri is also only a few years off aswell, but given both Capri and Mzuri have been sired by Alon, Rocky would have to acquire another male.
As has been mentioned, Sembe has been partially excluded from the Taronga 'social circle' you could say, and Rockhampton has been incredibly successful in integrating anti-social, or 'rejected' Chimps and going as far as breeding as well. It would be a terrific shame for Rockhampton to lose their troop, so to me this move not only makes sense, but would be greatly justified.
Rockhampton’s troop would greatly benefit from the addition of Sembe. Sembe has just turned 16 years old (DOB 27/02/2008) and has been an outcast of Taronga’s community for a number of years. Offspring equals status and despite reducing reproductive age eight years ago, Sembe still has no offspring (due to being placed on contraception). By comparison, Sacha had had three offspring by her age; and Lisa and Shiba had each had two.
Cassius is a behavioural non-breeder, but still intact; while Jerry is castrated. Like you say, Rockhampton effectively have a 1.1 breeding pair in Alon and Leakey. The plan is for their daughters to transfer out and given the demographics of Rockhampton’s troop, I imagine Gandali will be retained (he apparently has a close bond to Alon). Sembe would therefore provide a potential breeding partner for Gandali; though tbh, it’s unlikely he’ll getting a looking with Alon well established as a (young) alpha male.
I would also transfer Shona due to her being in the same situation as Sembe. She’d add to Rockhampton’s female numbers and fare better in a small troop imo. Rockhampton would then have two breeding females; while planning to send away Capri and Mzuri long term.
Western plains hasn't had any majour redevelopments or developments in a long time. All there stuff has been either conservation based and mostly of display. Or in the realm or cafes, play areas and accomodation. Which given the location is more genuinely needed then say what taronga has done. The zoo is in desperate need to of revitalising itself, they have lost a large amount of species and haven't gained anything substantial apart from the platypus HQ.
It's high time the zoo redesigns itself and starts redoing itself or it will suffer more visitor losses. As soon the other open range zoos will be miles ahead. Why they have never redeveloped the primate areas and added new exhibits for gibbons (the simian exhibit was actually quite small and the reason I believe they didn't require them), and add in exhibits for chimps, gorillas and squirrel monkeys is beyond me. The primates were popular and they have let them dwindle down. A lot of space that used to be used for ungulates is now being used for ungulates but on repeat. You see zebra on the savannah, you see zebra in there species only exhibit. The taronga foundation needs to start realising if they dont start putting effort into the zoo they won't get increased visitation its too far in the middle of no where to be so average.