Breed-to-feed in Zoos

[LongNeckoo]

Hey all,

I would like to get some inputs on breeding animals (pigs,deers,antelopes) and feeding them to carnivores in zoos.

Does anyone knows if there are any zoos practicing them? I know it is quite a sensitive topic and I am trying to put together something to justify it.

IMHO, there is more pros than cons just that the public or staff should be better educated to look at things from a different perspective.

Some of the pros:
1. Welfare for animals - feeding full carcass to the carnivore might be more beneficial to them as there are bones and guts for them to consume. On the other end, raising the animals until wean allow the dam to experience the full maternal cycle.
2. Nutrition - If the meat for the carnivore are purchased, it is most likely frozen and not fresh. Most meat are mainly de-boned or degutted which the carnivore cannot enjoy. Pack carnivore like painted dog and hyenas might benefit from large carcass feeding.
3. Financial point of view (Logistics & cost) - in some country, it might be costly to import/purchase meat. Breeding certain species to be fed can potentially reduce cost and also carbon footprint? (Transport cost, package cost etc) The animal can be reared to a certain size or weight before being fed.
4. Educational purpose - In the wild, prey species might be hunted by carnivore at some stage of their life.

Just want to see what you think.

 

[MRJ]

Hey all,

I would like to get some inputs on breeding animals (pigs,deers,antelopes) and feeding them to carnivores in zoos.

Does anyone knows if there are any zoos practicing them? I know it is quite a sensitive topic and I am trying to put together something to justify it.

IMHO, there is more pros than cons just that the public or staff should be better educated to look at things from a different perspective.

Some of the pros:
1. Welfare for animals - feeding full carcass to the carnivore might be more beneficial to them as there are bones and guts for them to consume. On the other end, raising the animals until wean allow the dam to experience the full maternal cycle.
2. Nutrition - If the meat for the carnivore are purchased, it is most likely frozen and not fresh. Most meat are mainly de-boned or degutted which the carnivore cannot enjoy. Pack carnivore like painted dog and hyenas might benefit from large carcass feeding.
3. Financial point of view (Logistics & cost) - in some country, it might be costly to import/purchase meat. Breeding certain species to be fed can potentially reduce cost and also carbon footprint? (Transport cost, package cost etc) The animal can be reared to a certain size or weight before being fed.
4. Educational purpose - In the wild, prey species might be hunted by carnivore at some stage of their life.

Just want to see what you think.

No responsible zoo would feed it's carnivores just "meat". They would always feed whole or partial carcasses. Many will also feed special kibbles, and some only kibbles.

Most zoo with large carnivores would have a butchery to allow them to cut up carcasses. They also might have slaughtering facilities. Back in the day the zoo was often the destination of working horses at the end of their lives.

Breeding hoofed mammals on site specifically for consumption would not be an economic proposition. Feeding out euthanised zoo animals would only be possible if they were shot, of course it is not possible to feed out animals killed by injected drugs.

Back in the day, most zoos would have had rodent and insect breeding facilities, these days it is often more economical to buy these from commercial suppliers.

 

[Lori Patton]

I don't think this idea would go over well at all in most places -- certainly not in Los Angeles where I live. Animal rights activists are already practically salivating at the prospect of closing zoos down and this breed-to-feed plan would just add fuel to their fire.

While I do agree with some of your points in that pack carnivores would undoubtedly enjoy tearing apart a carcass and there would be more nutritional value than from frozen meat, I don't think many people have the stomach for such things. There is naturally a trade-off for zoo animals in that while they receive food, medical care, and protection, they are also confined and are denied some animalistic pleasures of the wild.

Also, how would you propose slaughtering the prey animals? It's cruel to put live animals into an enclosure with predators where they have no chance of escape -- that harkens back to the days of the Roman gladiator battles in the Colloseum. In general, I think the less the public thinks about how and where zoo carnivores are getting their protein the better off everyone is.

 

[LongNeckoo]

I don't think this idea would go over well at all in most places -- certainly not in Los Angeles where I live. Animal rights activists are already practically salivating at the prospect of closing zoos down and this breed-to-feed plan would just add fuel to their fire.

While I do agree with some of your points in that pack carnivores would undoubtedly enjoy tearing apart a carcass and there would be more nutritional value than from frozen meat, I don't think many people have the stomach for such things. There is naturally a trade-off for zoo animals in that while they receive food, medical care, and protection, they are also confined and are denied some animalistic pleasures of the wild.

Also, how would you propose slaughtering the prey animals? It's cruel to put live animals into an enclosure with predators where they have no chance of escape -- that harkens back to the days of the Roman gladiator battles in the Colloseum. In general, I think the less the public thinks about how and where zoo carnivores are getting their protein the better off everyone is.

We will cull them humanly (gunshot), remove the bullet and feed them. Dont think we will feed them in full view of the public - either after hours or even backstage.

 

[LongNeckoo]

No responsible zoo would feed it's carnivores just "meat". They would always feed whole or partial carcasses. Many will also feed special kibbles, and some only kibbles.

Most zoo with large carnivores would have a butchery to allow them to cut up carcasses. They also might have slaughtering facilities. Back in the day the zoo was often the destination of working horses at the end of their lives.

Breeding hoofed mammals on site specifically for consumption would not be an economic proposition. Feeding out euthanised zoo animals would only be possible if they were shot, of course it is not possible to feed out animals killed by injected drugs.

Back in the day, most zoos would have had rodent and insect breeding facilities, these days it is often more economical to buy these from commercial suppliers.

We used to receive horses but dont received it as often now. From where i come from, the cost of bringing in meat products can be quite high and we also need to deal with our local authority to ensure the meat comes from reliable sources - which adds up the cost. Not mentioning space for storage as well.

 

[DesertRhino150]

With regards to how the public might react to carcass feeding, this paper from 2017 showed that visitors stayed longer at an exhibit, reported feeling comfortable and at ease when watching carcass feedings and exhibited positive feelings towards animal care and welfare during such feedings.

The study took place in ABQ BioPark Zoo in Albuquerque, with visitors observing Tasmanian devils eating whole chickens or rabbits, and both African wild dogs and spotted hyenas eating whole goat carcasses.

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/...19/Roth_washington_0250O_14597.pdf?sequence=1

That being said, I'm not so sure that a 'breed-and-cull' system would necessarily be the best - my local zoo (Colchester Zoo) provides whole deer carcasses for their Komodo dragons that are sourced by local gamekeepers, which might be an alternative option.

 

[JVM]

Carcass feeding is already performed in a number of facilities and isn't especially controversial by itself. I bring this up as very often as the potential value of carcass feeding is used to justify breed to feed strategies as if they are the same thing. I do not oppose carcass feeding.

If a zoo wants to breed domesticated rodents or insects in an off-exhibit area for feeding purposes, I don't oppose that, it might be better for insectivore health especially, but I think the optics are very different when it comes to the public collection. Guests do not want to watch a baby zebra or antelope grow up and then you feed it to the lions, but they rarely form connections with or notice the absence of small animals that are not part of the public collection.

Feeding collection animals to one another risks undermining guests' ability to connect with display animals, undermining the sense that individual animals' lives are important to wildlife conservation, reinforce the value of animals as food and the perception of predators as vicious and bloodthirsty, which is a major hurdle to the reintroduction of predators near human inhabited areas.

I think using domesticated sources mitigates some of this as guests are more familiar with the food use and farm breeding and therefore less likely to blame the zoo personally, though it may still not help with the last aspect, as the fear of wolves attacking livestock is still a huge hurdle for their conservation.

4. Educational purpose - In the wild, prey species might be hunted by carnivore at some stage of their life.

The hunting process might be educational to watch, since it would include a lot of unique behaviors, but that would require keeping cheetah and gazelle in the same enclosure, not a humane cull of surplus gazelle being fed as carcasses. I don't think that would offer inherent educational value - plenty of zoos have signage that informs guests what the natural prey of various animals are, and guests should know that.

The study took place in ABQ BioPark Zoo in Albuquerque, with visitors observing Tasmanian devils eating whole chickens or rabbits, and both African wild dogs and spotted hyenas eating whole goat carcasses.

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/...19/Roth_washington_0250O_14597.pdf?sequence=1

That being said, I'm not so sure that a 'breed-and-cull' system would necessarily be the best - my local zoo (Colchester Zoo) provides whole deer carcasses for their Komodo dragons that are sourced by local gamekeepers, which might be an alternative option.

I look forward to taking a closer look at the paper. It's noticeable that the examples all use domesticated animals for carcass feeding, and the latter are locally sourced. I think that's the smart balance between the benefits of carcass feeding and the risks of breed to feed.

 

[Dassie rat]

i remember the controversy when Marius the giraffe was killed at Copenhagen Zoo: Giraffe Killing at Copenhagen Zoo Sparks Global Outrage

 

[lintworm]

Hey all,

I would like to get some inputs on breeding animals (pigs,deers,antelopes) and feeding them to carnivores in zoos.

Does anyone knows if there are any zoos practicing them? I know it is quite a sensitive topic and I am trying to put together something to justify it.

IMHO, there is more pros than cons just that the public or staff should be better educated to look at things from a different perspective.

Some of the pros:
1. Welfare for animals - feeding full carcass to the carnivore might be more beneficial to them as there are bones and guts for them to consume. On the other end, raising the animals until wean allow the dam to experience the full maternal cycle.
2. Nutrition - If the meat for the carnivore are purchased, it is most likely frozen and not fresh. Most meat are mainly de-boned or degutted which the carnivore cannot enjoy. Pack carnivore like painted dog and hyenas might benefit from large carcass feeding.
3. Financial point of view (Logistics & cost) - in some country, it might be costly to import/purchase meat. Breeding certain species to be fed can potentially reduce cost and also carbon footprint? (Transport cost, package cost etc) The animal can be reared to a certain size or weight before being fed.
4. Educational purpose - In the wild, prey species might be hunted by carnivore at some stage of their life.

Just want to see what you think.

I don't think there are any zoos that breed hoofstock with the specific purpose of feeding them (rats, mice and insects are a different situation). They do breed hoofstock as part of natural behaviour and animal welfare and in many zoos it is common that surplus animals are euthanized (with a bullet) and then used as carnivore feed. There are some regional differences in attitude, but in Northern and Central Europe at least there are plenty of zoos that acknowledge they do it, and some are very open in their communication about it. I have seen parts of carcasses that were still recognizable as e.g. zebra or yak in enclosures here and that stuff doesn't produce any outcry. There are probably more visitor reactions to whole carcasses of guinea pigs or rabbits that are routinely clearly on display in many zoos here.

 

[Lafone]

Hey all,

I would like to get some inputs on breeding animals (pigs,deers,antelopes) and feeding them to carnivores in zoos.

Does anyone knows if there are any zoos practicing them? I know it is quite a sensitive topic and I am trying to put together something to justify it.

IMHO, there is more pros than cons just that the public or staff should be better educated to look at things from a different perspective.

Some of the pros:
1. Welfare for animals - feeding full carcass to the carnivore might be more beneficial to them as there are bones and guts for them to consume. On the other end, raising the animals until wean allow the dam to experience the full maternal cycle.
2. Nutrition - If the meat for the carnivore are purchased, it is most likely frozen and not fresh. Most meat are mainly de-boned or degutted which the carnivore cannot enjoy. Pack carnivore like painted dog and hyenas might benefit from large carcass feeding.
3. Financial point of view (Logistics & cost) - in some country, it might be costly to import/purchase meat. Breeding certain species to be fed can potentially reduce cost and also carbon footprint? (Transport cost, package cost etc) The animal can be reared to a certain size or weight before being fed.
4. Educational purpose - In the wild, prey species might be hunted by carnivore at some stage of their life.

Just want to see what you think.

Most U.K. collections I have visited feed whole or part and identifiable carcasses (horse, deer, cow / calf rabbit, hare and fowl such as duck or chicken) to obligate carnivores and egg production surplus chicks etc to other animals like storks etc and many have notices and information about it. There is no intrinsic link or advantage between breeding on site and feeding whole / intact animal parts. Welfare and nutrition of the zoo animals is not impacted by a breed on site or not decision. Only by what a collection decides to feed.

It would be interesting to see when all costs are taken into account if for most zoos it would be genuinely more cost effective to breed and slaughter animals on site than source responsibly from local suppliers. Is it really cheaper or does it just sound it.

On the point of wild hunting education I am opposed to live feeding animals to carnivores in captive settings and believe animals should be humanely raised and killed before being used as food for zoo animals. As a result I can see no educational difference from feeding an animal bred in a zoo to a carnivore than an animal bred down the road.

If breed and cull didn’t have the very highest welfare standards I’d also be opposed to it on those grounds. Animals don’t have less value because they are lower in the food chain, in my view anyway.

I also don’t believe zoos should be routinely breeding exotic animals for display and then killing them for food as it undermines the conservation message. It isn’t real life anyway - the tigers in a zoo can’t visit the goat enclosure if they fancy it and the whole zoo set up is artificial when you think about it.

I can only see it making sense to breed animals to feed zoo animals in the same location if it is genuinely cost effective (given obligate carnivores need meat so it has to come from somewhere) when all the real costs and welfare of the food animals are taken into account it could be practical. There are no other arguments that are really valid for it.

 

[ZooNews2024]

In the UK it is illegal to breed-and-feed any zoo animal to other zoo animals. The BALAI regulations and Animal ByProducts orders both forbid this DEFRA have confirmed formally that all animals dying (from whatever cause including euthanasia) in a registered zoo collection are classed as 'hazardous waste' and have to be sent to either an approved reference collection (such as a museum) or an approved collection centre. This is the same for ALL vertebrates.

Zoos can and do feed whole carcass, but this has to be received in from a registered supplier if it is a farm animal. Wild game (such as deer, rabbits or pheasants) are treated differently.

The regulations treat the same species differently. If a Red Deer (for example) dies from whatever cause (including euthanasia or slaughter) in a zoo, it is classed as hazardous waste - if the same species dies on a farm, it is an agricultural product - if it dies in the wild it is classed as 'game'. All three require separate treatment and different documentation.

 

[Lafone]

In the UK it is illegal to breed-and-feed any zoo animal to other zoo animals. The BALAI regulations and Animal ByProducts orders both forbid this DEFRA have confirmed formally that all animals dying (from whatever cause including euthanasia) in a registered zoo collection are classed as 'hazardous waste' and have to be sent to either an approved reference collection (such as a museum) or an approved collection centre. This is the same for ALL vertebrates.

Zoos can and do feed whole carcass, but this has to be received in from a registered supplier if it is a farm animal. Wild game (such as deer, rabbits or pheasants) are treated differently.

The regulations treat the same species differently. If a Red Deer (for example) dies from whatever cause (including euthanasia or slaughter) in a zoo, it is classed as hazardous waste - if the same species dies on a farm, it is an agricultural product - if it dies in the wild it is classed as 'game'. All three require separate treatment and different documentation.

Yes however I was just replying to the original poster asking about the merits of breed and feed in theory.

I wasn’t suggesting it should be done in the U.K. nor that it could be indeed I’m broadly opposed to it.

However the only thing that would merit doing it in theory in my view would be cost - the other factors listed in the OP aren’t, in my view, enhanced or otherwise by a decision to breed to feed or not.

Most of the zoos I visit in the U.K. visibly feed different meats from different sources and I expect all are compliant with the requisite legislation. At no point did I suggest zoos were breaking the law. Nor advocating they did so. However if you want to see a deer carcass, a rabbit and a cows leg in three different enclosures you can visit many U.K. zoos to do so. I’m sure they follow the law but any concerns about them should probably be sent to the zoo directly.

 

[ZooNews2024]

Guests do not want to watch a baby zebra or antelope grow up and then you feed it to the lions, .

An interesting point is that at least 2 UK zoos do exactly this, not only feeding out their slaughtered zoo animals to other zoo animals, but also selling the products produced to their visitors. This would appear to be in contravention of at least 2 UK laws as applied to other zoos with similar licences. I would suggest to LongNeckoo to enquire of DEFRA to see how this is legal, as other attempts to so do have failed.l

 

[birdsandbats]

In the UK it is illegal to breed-and-feed any zoo animal to other zoo animals. The BALAI regulations and Animal ByProducts orders both forbid this DEFRA have confirmed formally that all animals dying (from whatever cause including euthanasia) in a registered zoo collection are classed as 'hazardous waste' and have to be sent to either an approved reference collection (such as a museum) or an approved collection centre. This is the same for ALL vertebrates.

Zoos can and do feed whole carcass, but this has to be received in from a registered supplier if it is a farm animal. Wild game (such as deer, rabbits or pheasants) are treated differently.

The regulations treat the same species differently. If a Red Deer (for example) dies from whatever cause (including euthanasia or slaughter) in a zoo, it is classed as hazardous waste - if the same species dies on a farm, it is an agricultural product - if it dies in the wild it is classed as 'game'. All three require separate treatment and different documentation.

"Breed-and-feed" isn't too uncommon with chickens and anoles in the US. Is this really illegal in the UK?

 

[ZooNews2024]

"Breed-and-feed" isn't too uncommon with chickens and anoles in the US. Is this really illegal in the UK?

Yes - dead zoo animals are classed as a hazardous product, and have to be disposed of accordingly. The legislation does not differentiate between any vertebrate, or use. The issue came to a head when horse-meat obtained from Government registered abbatoirs/slaughter-houses, contaminated with barbiturates was sold on as animal food, and led to poisoning (and recovery) in lions and the death of at least one cheetah. The zoo(s) involved were considering using their own or rented grassland to grow 'clean' stocks of food species for their own consumption, but this was specifically banned by DEFRA, who confirmed as I said above that ANY vertebrate dying in a zoo (whether naturally or 'assisted') was classed as a hazardous product and as such could not be fed to other zoo animals.

 

[Lafone]

"Breed-and-feed" isn't too uncommon with chickens and anoles in the US. Is this really illegal in the UK?

Regulations on chicken keeping in the UK depend on bird volumes and intent of use, so, for example you can have up to 50 chickens as a smallholder and use the eggs with friends family etc without registering as a keeper or being subject to much regulation (though the advice is to register with DEFRA anyway so they can update you on potential disease issues).

Once you get into selling the eggs commercially, have birds in larger numbers, or birds are being produced for meat in any part of the food chain there are other stricter regulations but it is perfecty feasible for a 'zoo' to have a licence and a regulated space for keeping chickens to then use them for food for zoo animals or other commercial purposes as long as they complied with all the relevant legislation and inspection both in production and in feeding particularly if you had two effective parts of the organisation. Not sure any do though.

Rules on feeding animal by products apply to zoos and, for example, commercial kennels

Using animal by-products to feed carnivores

Nowhere does it state you can't produce the meat yourself, what you can't do legally is just casually produce animals for meat in one part of the zoo and feed it in another part without complying with the relevant legislation on meat production.

Zoo animal feed: application to use animal by-products

The issue for any zoo doing this would be to have the appropriate set up to farm animals that were not 'zoo' animals and that would require a lot of work to establish, given farming animals can be a complex business.

 

[ZooNews2024]

Regulations on chicken keeping in the UK depend on bird volumes and intent of use, so, for example you can have up to 50 chickens as a smallholder and use the eggs with friends family etc without registering as a keeper or being subject to much regulation (though the advice is to register with DEFRA anyway so they can update you on potential disease issues).

Once you get into selling the eggs commercially, have birds in larger numbers, or birds are being produced for meat in any part of the food chain there are other stricter regulations but it is perfecty feasible for a 'zoo' to have a licence and a regulated space for keeping chickens to then use them for food for zoo animals or other commercial purposes as long as they complied with all the relevant legislation and inspection both in production and in feeding particularly if you had two effective parts of the organisation. Not sure any do though.

Rules on feeding animal by products apply to zoos and, for example, commercial kennels

Using animal by-products to feed carnivores

Nowhere does it state you can't produce the meat yourself, what you can't do legally is just casually produce animals for meat in one part of the zoo and feed it in another part without complying with the relevant legislation on meat production.

Zoo animal feed: application to use animal by-products

The issue for any zoo doing this would be to have the appropriate set up to farm animals that were not 'zoo' animals and that would require a lot of work to establish, given farming animals can be a complex business.

Yes - this is all 'guidance' and these are simply links to DEFRA's website.
It is NOT how the legislation is actually put into practice, which is as I stated above...

 

[Lafone]

Yes - dead zoo animals are classed as a hazardous product, and have to be disposed of accordingly. The legislation does not differentiate between any vertebrate, or use. The issue came to a head when horse-meat obtained from Government registered abbatoirs/slaughter-houses, contaminated with barbiturates was sold on as animal food, and led to poisoning (and recovery) in lions and the death of at least one cheetah. The zoo(s) involved were considering using their own or rented grassland to grow 'clean' stocks of food species for their own consumption, but this was specifically banned by DEFRA, who confirmed as I said above that ANY vertebrate dying in a zoo (whether naturally or 'assisted') was classed as a hazardous product and as such could not be fed to other zoo animals.

This is only correct if the animals being farmed are classed as, or the zoo attempts to class them as, 'zoo' animals and effectively tries to slide killing zoo animals into the animal food chain. This would not be allowed as the animal would be a zoo animal.

If a zoo had, in theory, a fully licensed and regulated deer farm as an associated business, there would be nothing in the regulations preventing them from using the deer meat in the zoo as simply another supplier, as long as the supply met the requisite regulations.

What isn't permitted is whacking a deer which has always simply been kept in an enclosure as a 'zoo' animal (even if properly registered with DEFRA with the right tags etc) over the head and then feeding it to the lions in a nearby enclosure. But despite your suggestion about the 'two zoos', I really doubt anyone is actually doing that.

 

[Lafone]

Yes - this is all 'guidance' and these are simply links to DEFRA's website.
It is NOT how the legislation is actually put into practice, which is as I stated above...

Yes they are linked to the government UK site (not DEFRA, legislative information is centralised in the UK) website so people can read what the law states if they want to.

You appear to be suggesting I am advocating to break the law or I am doing so. Neither is the case and you are the one who brought up having knowledge of laws being broken at the end of the day.

 

[Strathmorezoo]

At one time( 20 odd years ago )whole carcasses that came into zoos for carnivores, were stained in a safe blue dye which signified that the meat was not suitable for human consumption and that it had been supplied by a licensed supplier. Does this practice still apply today?