Taronga Zoo Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy)

[Osedax]

View attachment 695532
I wonder where the Alligator Snapping Turtle will come from. I assume Sydney Zoo but I don't know whether they will be willing to let theirs go. It'll be good to see Corroboree Frogs in an official setup as opposed to their 'temporary' boxes though. I also hope the Red-Bellied Black's inhabit the same exhibit as they are currently. I saw them sleeping together on my latest visit, looking quite comfortable with each others company.

View attachment 695533

I don't think Sydney would get rid of their Alligator Snapping Turtle. I would say somewhere like WCCC would be more likely.
The Red-bellied Black Snakes will not stay in their current exhibit. The RACC is in a completely different area of the zoo and the current reptile house will be replaced by a new wildlife hospital like the one at Dubbo.
Also, where did you get that list from?

 

[loganjmuir]

I don't think Sydney would get rid of their Alligator Snapping Turtle. I would say somewhere like WCCC would be more likely.
The Red-bellied Black Snakes will not stay in their current exhibit. The RACC is in a completely different area of the zoo and the current reptile house will be replaced by a new wildlife hospital like the one at Dubbo.
Also, where did you get that list from?

https://majorprojects.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/prweb/PRRestService/mp/01/getContent?AttachRef=SSD-17483577!20210714T010103.516 GMT
There is a series of documents on this and another file detailing the plans.

 

[ReturnOfPaddyRick]

Felids and ursids are two the biggest drawcards for any zoo and as Taronga’s sun bear ages, they’ll need to give consideration as to what the future holds for bears at Taronga.

Taronga’s bear facilities are indeed dated and the lack of mention for renewal in the masterplan suggests they may be intending to phase out long term. I think we can all agree continuing with sun bears isn’t a viable option at this point in time; but as has been discussed previously, sloth bears would make a good replacement.

It’s important to bear in mind that bears have the potential to attract negative PR due to their pacing behaviours and those that house them are obliged to dedicate increasing amounts of space to exhibiting them. As a city zoo, Taronga’s ability to do so will be limited; so the future of bears at Taronga (if any) could ultimately take the form of a large exhibit at Dubbo.

“important to bear in mind that bears have the potential to attract negative PR” I see what you did there. Also I agree, if it isn’t possible to get new sun bears other avenues should be explored. Getting rid of the plane is just a no brainer, no idea how the directory thought that was a good idea

 

[Zoofan15]

“important to bear in mind that bears have the potential to attract negative PR” I see what you did there. Also I agree, if it isn’t possible to get new sun bears other avenues should be explored. Getting rid of the plane is just a no brainer, no idea how the directory thought that was a good idea

I wondered if anyone would spot that.

I really like sun bears, they’re an extremely charismatic species; but being realistic, there’s no viable options in the foreseeable future for importing males. Aside from there being many viable options within the global captive population for sourcing sloth bears, they appear much easier to breed. 1-2 cubs (rarely 3) are the litter size versus sun bears, which typically produce a single cub. Chomel’s twin births at Wellington Zoo were noted to be abnormal and were attributed to her being a twin herself (genetic factor).

I’m no fan of Taronga’s plane. I’m sure it sounded impressive when detailing an immersive experience on paper; but the reality is that and the fake supermarket detract from the space that could have been used to house other species. Since it’s an option to skip the plane, I’d be interested to know a visitor count for each option (plane versus skip the plane). If Taronga undertook this, they might see justification for scrapping it if they find an overwhelming percentage of people aren’t using it.

 

[Jambo]

Before a redevelopment can happen though, the Elephant Barn will need to be either demolished or redeveloped itself. For a building of its size, it's been a terrific waste of space and money on Taronga's behalf. When you consider all of these factors, we shouldn't be expecting any changes to happen until well after the proposed Congo Precinct was supposed to be finished.

Hopefully this can involve some sort of redevelopment of the building rather than demolishing it. There's plenty of ways they could go with this - maybe if they wish to link it with the Congo precinct, this could serve as an indoor Pygmy Hippo exhibit.

 

[Zoofan15]

Hopefully this can involve some sort of redevelopment of the building rather than demolishing it. There's plenty of ways they could go with this - maybe if they wish to link it with the Congo precinct, this could serve as an indoor Pygmy Hippo exhibit.

I really hope whatever happens with the new Pygmy hippopotamus exhibits that consideration is given to housing and breeding a reasonable number of them. With the Hippopotamus IRA now within reach, it’s obvious there will be a surge of interest in this species and it’d be nice to see Taronga account for a capacity beyond a 1.1 pair with any offspring transferred out at adolescence. A second breeding female and capacity to house offspring long term would be great to see.

 

[Tiger91]

Hopefully this can involve some sort of redevelopment of the building rather than demolishing it. There's plenty of ways they could go with this - maybe if they wish to link it with the Congo precinct, this could serve as an indoor Pygmy Hippo exhibit.

My guess is that the congo precinct was to developed and lacked animal space, hence it getting shelved. It wasn't long after they copped criticism for being a concrete zoo without enough species publicly that the zoo shelved the precinct.
Going forward I wouldn't be surprised if we dont see new precincts come up but new exhibit areas. Now that the elephants are being replaced with a decent species that requires little to no mods. After the new wildlife hospital, the zoo has no majour projects. Hopefully well see some new exhibits being built in some of the areas looking a bit tired.
Where the camels and old elephant house is, would have enough land to create 2 + nice exhibits for pygmy hippos. It would be nice to see the zoo incorporate an African species like colobus into the area. As of memory there is a fair bit of space around the camels that could be utilised.

 

[Zoofan15]

My guess is that the congo precinct was to developed and lacked animal space, hence it getting shelved. It wasn't long after they copped criticism for being a concrete zoo without enough species publicly that the zoo shelved the precinct.
Going forward I wouldn't be surprised if we dont see new precincts come up but new exhibit areas. Now that the elephants are being replaced with a decent species that requires little to no mods. After the new wildlife hospital, the zoo has no majour projects. Hopefully well see some new exhibits being built in some of the areas looking a bit tired.
Where the camels and old elephant house is, would have enough land to create 2 + nice exhibits for pygmy hippos. It would be nice to see the zoo incorporate an African species like colobus into the area. As of memory there is a fair bit of space around the camels that could be utilised.

The inability to source Okapi may have been a factor. In addition to whatever lack of availability there may be within the North American breeding programme, it’s not currently possible to import them into Australia. Even if they’re the next IRA after hippopotamus, we all know how long that’s taken/taking. The only option would have been to import them via New Zealand, which I can only see happening if a New Zealand Zoo had an interest in them and undertook a group import (of two pairs for example).

Even with/without Okapi, Western lowland gorilla were planned to be the headliners. Recently there’s been reports on here that Taronga could be phasing them out, which is at least a reasonable possibility.

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

I do find it bizarre that Taronga might phase out their Gorillas.

 

[Zoofan15]

I do find it bizarre that Taronga might phase out their Gorillas.

They certainly have an extensive history with the species. They’ve held them continuously for the last 27 years and they’re a popular exhibit. The exhibit is looking dated and is in need of an upgrade, so I guess it’s about determining future interest in persisting with them. Regionally there seems to be little interest in importing, with Melbourne’s troop similarly stagnated.

One option could be to disestablish their breeding troop and hold a single troop of bachelor males, though it wouldn’t surprise me to see the adolescents go to Sydney.

 

[Tiger91]

The inability to source Okapi may have been a factor. In addition to whatever lack of availability there may be within the North American breeding programme, it’s not currently possible to import them into Australia. Even if they’re the next IRA after hippopotamus, we all know how long that’s taken/taking. The only option would have been to import them via New Zealand, which I can only see happening if a New Zealand Zoo had an interest in them and undertook a group import (of two pairs for example).

Even with/without Okapi, Western lowland gorilla were planned to be the headliners. Recently there’s been reports on here that Taronga could be phasing them out, which is at least a reasonable possibility.

I always took them saying that they wanted okapi as an exec who seen one and liked them and wanted one. Without any real input into the collection plan. They are not even on the import list and I doubt they will get an IRA anytime soon. We have a decent giraffe population, any new genetics can come via NZ. I don't forsee us getting a giraffe import IRA anytime soon if at all. It's not a species that would be worth doing it for, when the only reason to do one id okapi. Which have a small population and likely would fair well at taronga realistically.

I would be very surprised if they phase out gorilla. Especially now the elephants are going. However, temporary phase out may be needed to rebuild a new gorilla exhibit. Which I think would be a better idea. The gorilla exhibit and the land/gardens around the exhibit. There is more then enough space and sloped space they could create dynamic, functional climbing multi level exhibits out of for gorillas. Easily do two equal sized exhibits and back of house areas. However there isnt really that sort of room anywhere else in the zoo. So it may be like the tigers and lions etc. Where they need to phase them out, to redo and phase back in.

 

[Zoofan15]

I always took them saying that they wanted okapi as an exec who seen one and liked them and wanted one. Without any real input into the collection plan. They are not even on the import list and I doubt they will get an IRA anytime soon. We have a decent giraffe population, any new genetics can come via NZ. I don't forsee us getting a giraffe import IRA anytime soon if at all. It's not a species that would be worth doing it for, when the only reason to do one id okapi. Which have a small population and likely would fair well at taronga realistically.

I would be very surprised if they phase out gorilla. Especially now the elephants are going. However, temporary phase out may be needed to rebuild a new gorilla exhibit. Which I think would be a better idea. The gorilla exhibit and the land/gardens around the exhibit. There is more then enough space and sloped space they could create dynamic, functional climbing multi level exhibits out of for gorillas. Easily do two equal sized exhibits and back of house areas. However there isnt really that sort of room anywhere else in the zoo. So it may be like the tigers and lions etc. Where they need to phase them out, to redo and phase back in.

The original plan was to swap a pair of Okapi for Platypus, which were sent to San Diego Zoo. Unless a zoo like Auckland wishes to acquire Okapi and undertake a group import of two pairs, I can’t see Okapi coming to Taronga. Auckland Zoo are planning to replace elephants with rhinoceros, so space wise I can’t envisage any avenue for this happening.

Hamilton Zoo have two elderly bull giraffe, so I’m hoping they’ll undertake a giraffe import from overseas. This could supply Australia with first generation offspring. Hamilton have the facilities to manage two bulls separately, so could potentially import 2.2 if they wished to do so; though honestly, even the offspring of 1.2 herd or 1.1 pair would be better than nothing.

 

[Tiger91]

The original plan was to swap a pair of Okapi for Platypus, which were sent to San Diego Zoo. Unless a zoo like Auckland wishes to acquire Okapi and undertake a group import of two pairs, I can’t see Okapi coming to Taronga. Auckland Zoo are planning to replace elephants with rhinoceros, so space wise I can’t envisage any avenue for this happening.

Hamilton Zoo have two elderly bull giraffe, so I’m hoping they’ll undertake a giraffe import from overseas. This could supply Australia with first generation offspring. Hamilton have the facilities to manage two bulls separately, so could potentially import 2.2 if they wished to do so; though honestly, even the offspring of 1.2 herd or 1.1 pair would be better than nothing.

Even if they did a 1.2 and bred some then split them and bred them to giraffe born in the region it would be not to bad. When they decided to give up on the Rothschild giraffes. The mix of there genetics into the generic population livened it up a bit.

Platypus for okapi was never going to happen. If I was a betting person id say that was all just PR fluff to send platypus over.

 

[Zoofan15]

Even if they did a 1.2 and bred some then split them and bred them to giraffe born in the region it would be not to bad. When they decided to give up on the Rothschild giraffes. The mix of there genetics into the generic population livened it up a bit.

Platypus for okapi was never going to happen. If I was a betting person id say that was all just PR fluff to send platypus over.

Definitely. The founders of Taronga’s prolific giraffe herd are the ancestors of the vast majority of the population; but in the past few decades we’ve had imports from Honolulu Zoo in addition to the Rothschild’s from North America and Europe.

With the import of Ntombi (2007) by Taronga Western Plains Zoo in 2008, the lineage of another founder (John from London Zoo) was ensured. His lineage has been precarious from the start given only one of his offspring (Kahiroa) survived to adulthood; in turn siring two surviving daughters (Kiri and Kay). Of their combined 10 calves (six of which survived to adulthood; and three of which are alive today), only Ntombi has bred, producing several calves at Dubbo.

 

[Tiger91]

Definitely. The founders of Taronga’s prolific giraffe herd are the ancestors of the vast majority of the population; but in the past few decades we’ve had imports from Honolulu Zoo in addition to the Rothschild’s from North America and Europe.

With the import of Ntombi (2007) by Taronga Western Plains Zoo in 2008, the lineage of another founder (John from London Zoo) was ensured. His lineage has been precarious from the start given only one of his offspring (Kahiroa) survived to adulthood; in turn siring two surviving daughters (Kiri and Kay). Of their combined 10 calves (six of which survived to adulthood; and three of which are alive today), only Ntombi has bred, producing several calves at Dubbo.

It sounds like it was a good move by western plains to import Ntombi. There was a post a year or so ago. Where they were talking about the young calves etc and noted that western plains current breeding herd runs 2 or 3. I can't quite remember, matrilineal lines with Ntombi being one of them. Which is good for genetic variation, plus the mix of Rothschild giraffe they did.

It would still be good to see the zoos settle on importing and breeding a specific subspecies/species. I don't see that happening, and especially not while the giraffe taxon is still being heavily debated as to what lands where.

 

[Zoofan15]

It sounds like it was a good move by western plains to import Ntombi. There was a post a year or so ago. Where they were talking about the young calves etc and noted that western plains current breeding herd runs 2 or 3. I can't quite remember, matrilineal lines with Ntombi being one of them. Which is good for genetic variation, plus the mix of Rothschild giraffe they did.

It would still be good to see the zoos settle on importing and breeding a specific subspecies/species. I don't see that happening, and especially not while the giraffe taxon is still being heavily debated as to what lands where.

Yes, it would have been a shame to lose John’s genes given he was a founder of the regional population. The post you refer to noted Tuli (1997) and Ntombi (2007) to be the two matrilineal lines.

Ntombi has produced six offspring to date:

1.0 Fanana (21/08/2012) Deceased
1.0 Nkosi (03/08/2014)
0.1 Nyah (01/01/2016)
0.1 Malaika (11/09/2017)
1.0 Shingo (25/03/2019)
0.1 Matata (00/06/2022)

Nyah produced her first calf in October 2022, making Ntombi a grandmother.

Ultimately the region seem content to manage giraffe as generics, which is fine, but I too would like to see some new imports. Since New Zealand has a Giraffe IRA, it’d be nice to see some initiative from our four main zoos. Hamilton will have the opportunity to found a new breeding herd when their elderly bulls pass and Auckland could easily add a second breeding cow.

 

[Tiger91]

Yes, it would have been a shame to lose John’s genes given he was a founder of the regional population. The post you refer to noted Tuli (1997) and Ntombi (2007) to be the two matrilineal lines.

Ntombi has produced six offspring to date:

1.0 Fanana (21/08/2012) Deceased
1.0 Nkosi (03/08/2014)
0.1 Nyah (01/01/2016)
0.1 Malaika (11/09/2017)
1.0 Shingo (25/03/2019)
0.1 Matata (00/06/2022)

Nyah produced her first calf in October 2022, making Ntombi a grandmother.

Ultimately the region seem content to manage giraffe as generics, which is fine, but I too would like to see some new imports. Since New Zealand has a Giraffe IRA, it’d be nice to see some initiative from our four main zoos. Hamilton will have the opportunity to found a new breeding herd when their elderly bulls pass and Auckland could easily add a second breeding cow.

Yes that was it!, two matrilineal lines isn't a huge range when you think about it. It is a rather small pool of females. Without Ntombi and her female offspring the zoo would have been working of a very related set of females.

With the zoos working more cooperatively it would be easy to import into NZ to fill gaps then further import into Aus.
Ironically the easiest place to get giraffe would be the USA. They have in the last decade non away from reticulated and gone for the Masai. Noting that a large number of reticulated giraffe were not 'pure'. Which would ultimately be ideal for our little mixed population. With just about all our giraffes being reticulated somewhere in the mix.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes that was it!, two matrilineal lines isn't a huge range when you think about it. It is a rather small pool of females. Without Ntombi and her female offspring the zoo would have been working of a very related set of females.

With the zoos working more cooperatively it would be easy to import into NZ to fill gaps then further import into Aus.
Ironically the easiest place to get giraffe would be the USA. They have in the last decade non away from reticulated and gone for the Masai. Noting that a large number of reticulated giraffe were not 'pure'. Which would ultimately be ideal for our little mixed population. With just about all our giraffes being reticulated somewhere in the mix.

I agree. The majority of our giraffes are transferred between zoos prior to reaching two years of age (for obvious reasons) and quarantining in New Zealand prior to being sent on to Australia would add another 12 months to their age/height.

If Hamilton Zoo could establish a breeding herd of imported giraffe (ideally 2.2), they could provide Australian zoos with a number of calves from undrepresented bloodlines. This alone would sustain the region for at least two to three decades.

 

[Zoofan15]

Exhibit change for Indian rhinoceros:

From socials:

Greater One-horned Rhinos Amala and Hari have had a change of scenery! The mother-son dynamic duo have moved from our grasslands habitat, near The Waterhole, down to the Asian Wetlands habitat near Otters where Hari is loving the water and extra mud wallows!

But don’t worry! You can still see Dora on the grasslands habitat, and the three rhinos will alternate between the two spaces from time to time. Moving between habitats is great enrichment for our animals, as they explore different sights, sounds and even smells!

I seen that on FB, it made me wonder how long until we see another calf. Especially now with Hair moving to Taronga.

Indian rhinoceros breeding at Dubbo:

Future breeding at Dubbo will likely be influenced by what we as a region can/want to hold. Dora comes from a very well represented line in Europe, so his offspring are of limited value to European zoos.

Dubbo could surely accomodate an additional calf into young adulthood; but interest from other facilities in the region doesn’t appear to be there at this point in time. There was previously hope for Melbourne and Perth acquiring Indian rhinoceros, but information suggests neither are interested at this point in time; and Werribee and Monarto have greater priorities.

 

[Abbey]

Indian rhinoceros breeding at Dubbo:

Future breeding at Dubbo will likely be influenced by what we as a region can/want to hold. Dora comes from a very well represented line in Europe, so his offspring are of limited value to European zoos.

Dubbo could surely accomodate an additional calf into young adulthood; but interest from other facilities in the region doesn’t appear to be there at this point in time. There was previously hope for Melbourne and Perth acquiring Indian rhinoceros, but information suggests neither are interested at this point in time; and Werribee and Monarto have greater priorities.

This is my personal opinion, but I hope that at least one more calf can be bred. Were, God forbid, anything to happen prematurely to Dora, Amala or Hari, it would be beneficial for there to be an extra rhino on the ground. If Dubbo are planning on continuing with the species long-term (which presumably they are), then they would only need to import one, rather than two, rhinos to create a future breeding pair with the offspring of Dora and Amala.