Harambe documentary

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TheFrogLady said:
The fact that they shot and killed Harambe I suppose. It sounds like anti-captivity protests. One of the blurbs for the documentary they are screening declares it to be "The next Blackfish".
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Protesting breeding animals to live in captivity and suffer Zoochosis. Also the Zoo was found legally responsible to have inadequate barriers, not a good look for a place that mostly advertises to young parents and is made to entertain kids.
 
TheFrogLady said:
I personally think making jokes about something as tragic as this is bit insensitive to the zoo and the keepers that worked with Harambe.
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Absolutely! We feel for all that loved him, and the poor folks involved in that terrible day. Why should we continue in the same way just waiting for the next harambe tragedy, after all if multiple children have fallen in multiple gorilla exhibits, it's going to keep happening. We want a critical discussion, sadly nobody from the Zoo would get involved from step 1, so that won't be possible, but if you have advocates of Zoos we would love to have a round table discussion to find a better path forward. Pro Zoo or Anti Zoo doesn't matter, we all love the animals and that should be our starting point.
 
Jambo said:
Such was the case with Blackfish too - many who were featured were apparently annoyed afterwards as specific parts of their interviews (of them praising some aspects of Seaworld) were left out.

Documentaries are not truly accurate and informative if they do not present both sides of the argument.:rolleyes:
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Impossible to when the Zoo refuses to participate. Most companies are afraid to engage in discussion. Since the Zoo only puts out pro zoo material with the same 4 arguments why they are important, it's also important to show the other side to balance the non stop propaganda that they are the only conservation of animals possible. We would prefer a round table discussion, the old way cannot continue, it's too cruel for the animals there, and Zoos we hope will continue to evolve into something that may serve the communities, animals, and Earth better than now
 
Erik E. Crown said:
Impossible to when the Zoo refuses to participate. Most companies are afraid to engage in discussion. Since the Zoo only puts out pro zoo material with the same 4 arguments why they are important, it's also important to show the other side to balance the non stop propaganda that they are the only conservation of animals possible. We would prefer a round table discussion, the old way cannot continue, it's too cruel for the animals there, and Zoos we hope will continue to evolve into something that may serve the communities, animals, and Earth better than now
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Once you describe your point of view as 'balanced' and someone else's as 'propaganda', you should not be surprised people fail to engage with you.

Your unfailing view you are right is great for you and the echo chamber you play to, but it plays no part in a 'round table' discussion and let's be honest, you know that.

I'd like to see the evidence children can or indeed will fall into any Gorilla exhibit in any UK zoo, feel free to post it.
 
Erik E. Crown said:
We would prefer a round table discussion, the old way cannot continue, it's too cruel for the animals there, and Zoos we hope will continue to evolve into something that may serve the communities, animals, and Earth better than now
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Look man, I understand that you mean well but a “round table discussion” will not happen when a special interest organization founded by (not zoologists nor animal keepers but) actors who do not want a compromise. We may as well have a brick wall join the discussion.

And frankly I am deeply offended that you are flinging around the word cruelty to refer to Cincinnati. Cincinnati Zoo is trying its best to provide the best it can for its goris. Many users here including myself have witnessed odious facilities that don’t give an iota of a care Cincinnati . I have seen chained elephants, monkeys made to walk upright, and sheep kept in rusty tiny corrals waiting for their slow inevitable death. I’ve seen a fox running for its life by more than five large stray dogs, but hey at least he wasn’t bred for captivity and suffer from zoochiosis or whatever bs term BFF came up with, right? I also was unfortunate enough to come across horror stories done to animals which include but not limited to dogs, mice, monkeys, fish and even binturongs. Many things I cannot say on this forum or elsewhere. So stop using the word cruelty like a child that just learned the word.

Lafone said:
I'd like to see the evidence children can or indeed will fall into any Gorilla exhibit in any UK zoo, feel free to post it.
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I think he is referring to Jambo from Jersey/Durell.
 
PossumRoach said:
Look man, I understand that you mean well but a “round table discussion” will not happen when a special interest organization founded by (not zoologists nor animal keepers but) actors who do not want a compromise. We may as well have a brick wall join the discussion.

And frankly I am deeply offended that you are flinging around the word cruelty to refer to Cincinnati. Cincinnati Zoo is trying its best to provide the best it can for its goris. Many users here including myself have witnessed odious facilities that don’t give an iota of a care Cincinnati . I have seen chained elephants, monkeys made to walk upright, and sheep kept in rusty tiny corrals waiting for their slow inevitable death. I’ve seen a fox running for its life by more than five large stray dogs, but hey at least he wasn’t bred for captivity and suffer from zoochiosis or whatever bs term BFF came up with, right? I also was unfortunate enough to come across horror stories done to animals which include but not limited to dogs, mice, monkeys, fish and even binturongs. Many things I cannot say on this forum or elsewhere. So stop using the word cruelty like a child that just learned the word.

I think he is referring to Jambo from Jersey/Durell.
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Ah yes thanks - in 1986 and not in the UK.

He also mentioned that the equivalent of the Harambe incident will happen again as conditions exist so it would be good to see the evidence vs the hyperbole.
 
Lafone said:
Once you describe your point of view as 'balanced' and someone else's as 'propaganda', you should not be surprised people fail to engage with you.

Your unfailing view you are right is great for you and the echo chamber you play to, but it plays no part in a 'round table' discussion and let's be honest, you know that.

I'd like to see the evidence children can or indeed will fall into any Gorilla exhibit in any UK zoo, feel free to post it.
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Also, didn’t Cincinnati redo their gorilla enclosures after the incident?
 
Erik E. Crown said:
We would prefer a round table discussion, the old way cannot continue, it's too cruel for the animals there, and Zoos we hope will continue to evolve into something that may serve the communities, animals, and Earth better than now
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You clearly seem to have a very strong anti-bias for the Cincinnati Zoo. Mentioning this is nothing but complete cruelty and disrespect to the zoo and all of the staff members who work there.
 
Lafone said:
Ah yes thanks - in 1986 and not in the UK.
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Jersey is a British Crown Dependency and is accredited by the BIAZA.

The incident with Jambo thankfully had a much happier ending than the one with Harambe did.

Jambo placed himself between the injured boy and the rest of the gorillas, and even stroked the child's back. After the boy regained consciousness and began to cry, Jambo led his troop away from the child, allowing rescuers to reach the boy and evacuate him safely.

Jambo's actions were widely reported in the media at the time, and just as widely praised, he's even generally credited with changing the publics' perception of gorillas! After his sudden death on September 16th, 1992 - The Jersey Zoo erected a bronze statue of him in his memory.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Jersey is a British Crown Dependency and is accredited by the BIAZA.

The incident with Jambo thankfully had a much happier ending than the one with Harambe did.

Jambo placed himself between the injured boy and the rest of the gorillas, and even stroked the child's back. After the boy regained consciousness and began to cry, Jambo led his troop away from the child, allowing rescuers to reach the boy and evacuate him safely.

Jambo's actions were widely reported in the media at the time, and just as widely praised, he's even generally credited with changing the publics' perception of gorillas! After his sudden death on September 16th, 1992 - The Jersey Zoo erected a bronze statue of him in his memory.
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Jersey isn't in the UK. A crown dependency has a different status.

It was a fascinating incident but something from 1986 can't be used by a modern documentary maker to make a criticism of conditions in zoos at this time.
 
Lafone said:
Jersey isn't in the UK. A crown dependency has a different status.
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I was aware of that. Regardless, the UK is responsible for Jersey and Jersey Zoo's BIAZA membership allows it to send and receive animals from other BIAZA member zoos. Which are located in the British Isles. (Plus one other facility located in Gibraltar.)
 
Lafone said:
Jersey isn't in the UK. A crown dependency has a different status.

It was a fascinating incident but something from 1986 can't be used by a modern documentary maker to make a criticism of conditions in zoos at this time.
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If I recall correctly, there was another incident where a female gorilla, Binti Jua, saved an unconscious 3 year old child when he fell into the gorilla enclosure at the Brookfield Zoo in 1996.
 
TheFrogLady said:
If I recall correctly, there was another incident where a female gorilla, Binti Jua, saved an unconscious 3 year old child when he fell into the gorilla enclosure at the Brookfield Zoo in 1996.
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Well given he didn't make a documentary about either of these issues it appears the problem for the filmmaker is the fact that Harambe was shot vs kids might fall into enclosures. Which fits the social media narrative of the meme based film I suppose. But it also makes concerns for kids a red herring.
 
TheFrogLady said:
If I recall correctly, there was another incident where a female gorilla, Binti Jua, saved an unconscious 3 year old child when he fell into the gorilla enclosure at the Brookfield Zoo in 1996.
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That is correct. Binti Jua carried the unconscious boy to a keeper access door and left him there, she retreated with the rest of her troop and shifted off of habitat almost immediately afterwards. Her firstborn baby Koola (Who was only 17 months old at the time of the incident) clung to her back throughout the entire ordeal.

Much like with Jambo, Binti Jua's actions were widely reported by the media and she received widespread praise and acclaim for protecting the child.
 
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