Question Regarding White/Albino Big Cats

SSLees

SSLees

Well-Known Member
Hey, was just reading some facts on Big Cat Sanctuary the other day. And honestly didn't know that it was against regulations to breed any white cats (lion or tiger), though I can completely understand why given the amount of health problems white tigers are prone to.

But that did leave me wondering about something. Would it still be against regulation if a white cat is born by pure chance or by accident?

So say a collection is just breeding normal coloured cats for conservation, but one of the offspring turns out to be white. Would they still be in trouble for having a white cat born?
 
SSLees said:
Hey, was just reading some facts on Big Cat Sanctuary the other day. And honestly didn't know that it was against regulations to breed any white cats (lion or tiger), though I can completely understand why given the amount of health problems white tigers are prone to.

But that did leave me wondering about something. Would it still be against regulation if a white cat is born by pure chance or by accident?

So say a collection is just breeding normal coloured cats for conservation, but one of the offspring turns out to be white. Would they still be in trouble for having a white cat born?
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No respectable zoo in this day and age would "breed" a white tiger, accidentally or otherwise. Why?

Because every white tiger is a Bengal/Amur hybrid.

All white tigers go back to a single forefather, Mohan. Captured as not quite a yearling cub (His mother and three siblings were shot), he was bred to a typically colored tigress for years until his owner got so frustrated by the lack of white cubs that he resorted to breeding him to one of his daughters.

Mohan's offspring were sold to circuses and zoos all over the world, with his white colored children/grandchildren being particularly in-demand. Amur (AKA:"Siberian") blood was added into the US Bengal tiger genepool sometime in either the 1960's or '70's. Accounts vary as to why this was done, but it was definitely done, and the end result was Amur DNA eventually making it's way into every Bengal tiger breeding program outside of India.

Ergo, if you see a "Bengal" tiger exhibited and it's not in India, it's really a Bengal/Amur hybrid.

Since zoos nowadays pride themselves on supporting conservation programs, they breed animals with that aim in mind. And only certain tiger subspecies are bred in zoos, what subspecies your local zoo has mostly depends on where you live. Since you're from the UK, your local zoo is probably a member of the EAZA.

So you're liable to find either Sumatran or Amur tigers there.

As for white lions, the situation behind them is a bit more complicated. Mostly owing to their history.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
No respectable zoo in this day and age would "breed" a white tiger, accidentally or otherwise. Why?

Because every white tiger is a Bengal/Amur hybrid.

All white tigers go back to a single forefather, Mohan. Captured as not quite a yearling cub (His mother and three siblings were shot), he was bred to a typically colored tigress for years until his owner got so frustrated by the lack of white cubs that he resorted to breeding him to one of his daughters.

Mohan's offspring were sold to circuses and zoos all over the world, with his white colored children/grandchildren being particularly in-demand. Amur (AKA:"Siberian") blood was added into the US Bengal tiger genepool sometime in either the 1960's or '70's. Accounts vary as to why this was done, but it was definitely done, and the end result was Amur DNA eventually making it's way into every Bengal tiger breeding program outside of India.

Ergo, if you see a "Bengal" tiger exhibited and it's not in India, it's really a Bengal/Amur hybrid.

Since zoos nowadays pride themselves on supporting conservation programs, they breed animals with that aim in mind. And only certain tiger subspecies are bred in zoos, what subspecies your local zoo has mostly depends on where you live. Since you're from the UK, your local zoo is probably a member of the EAZA.

So you're liable to find either Sumatran or Amur tigers there.

As for white lions, the situation behind them is a bit more complicated. Mostly owing to their history.
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Yeah, the closet one to me (And one I work at) is West Midlands Safari Park. Which while it does have while lions and white tigers, neither are bred anymore. I can remember them being bred decades ago, but not now for the reasons you explained.

I just was unsure due to thinking albinism being a genetic mutation, so my thought was even with a 1 in 10000 chance it could happen.

But honestly had no idea that all white tigers were hybrids. Just makes looking at a white tiger now feel so off and wrong, even if it's still a beautiful cat.

But yeah, I am aware with white lions it's a slightly different story historically.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
…and the end result was Amur DNA eventually making it's way into every Bengal tiger breeding program outside of India.

Ergo, if you see a "Bengal" tiger exhibited and it's not in India, it's really a Bengal/Amur hybrid.
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Something I’ve wondered about for a while: aren’t there zoos in other range countries, say, Bangladesh, that have the pure subspecies?
 
SSLees said:
Yeah, the closet one to me (And one I work at) is West Midlands Safari Park. Which while it does have while lions and white tigers, neither are bred anymore. I can remember them being bred decades ago, but not now for the reasons you explained.

I just was unsure due to thinking albinism being a genetic mutation, so my thought was even with a 1 in 10000 chance it could happen.

But honestly had no idea that all white tigers were hybrids. Just makes looking at a white tiger now feel so off and wrong, even if it's still a beautiful cat.

But yeah, I am aware with white lions it's a slightly different story historically.
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Most white tigers and lions bred over time in captivity particularly in ‘regulated’ collections are not albino - the leucisitic characteristic is not the same. Indeed it’s also different in tigers to lions. Albino animals have no pigmentation whereas leucistic ones have paler pigmentation. Neither would be deliberately bred in reputable zoos of course.

Not sure if there are any albino tigers or lions on exhibit in European zoos, can’t think of any in the U.K. but happy to be corrected.
 
Lafone said:
Albino animals have no pigmentation whereas leucistic ones have paler pigmentation. Neither would be deliberately bred in reputable zoos of course..
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Probably the commonest albino animal 'deliberately' bred in reputable zoos is the Red-necked Wallaby. I dont really see how doing so has any impact on conservation one way or the other, except possibly increasing the footfall past the collecting boxes...
 
ZooNews2024 said:
Probably the commonest albino animal 'deliberately' bred in reputable zoos is the Red-necked Wallaby. I dont really see how doing so has any impact on conservation one way or the other, except possibly increasing the footfall past the collecting boxes...
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Albino wallabies are indeed a more common sight but whether that’s because some zoos deliberately breed albinism in or because they simply don’t restrict the breeding habits of albino wallabies is a question.

I was just using animals to refer to lions and tigers in this context.
 
Lafone said:
some zoos deliberately breed albinism in or because they simply don’t restrict the breeding habits of albino wallabies is a question.
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Why do you differentiate between 'deliberately breeding' and 'simply not restricting breeding'?
The zoo is in control of what animals are in an enclosure. There is no difference.
 
ZooNews2024 said:
Why do you differentiate between 'deliberately breeding' and 'simply not restricting breeding'?
The zoo is in control of what animals are in an enclosure. There is no difference.
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I believe deliberate breeding refers to the purposeful breeding of certain individuals due to any reason with other individuals being put on contraception, being sterilized or otherwise separated. Simply not restricting breeding can mean that individuals in an exhibit are allowed to breed as they please.
 
Rohin said:
I believe deliberate breeding refers to the purposeful breeding of certain individuals due to any reason with other individuals being put on contraception, being sterilized or otherwise separated. Simply not restricting breeding can mean that individuals in an exhibit are allowed to breed as they please.
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Any animals can be moved between enclosures, sterilised or put on contraception (if it works) - it is the zoo's choice. There is no difference.
 
Rohin said:
But, there is a difference between the terms.
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No - there is not.
Please read my posts. To repeat, the zoo is in control of its animals wherever and however they are housed - it can choose to intervene, it can choose not to, or do so partially. Both are controlled situations. It is illegal for the zoo not to be in control of its animals.
The 'terms' are different words for the same thing.
 
ZooNews2024 said:
No - there is not.
Please read my posts. To repeat, the zoo is in control of its animals wherever and however they are housed - it can choose to intervene, it can choose not to, or do so partially. Both are controlled situations. It is illegal for the zoo not to be in control of its animals.
The 'terms' are different words for the same thing.
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Disagreement is not lack of comprehension. I read your post. I understand it. I disagree with it.

The point on legality (something you raise often in discussion) is not material. No one here is advocating breaking any laws and it doesn't change the discussion to suggest it.
 
Lafone said:
Disagreement is not lack of comprehension. I read your post. I understand it. I disagree with it.

The point on legality (something you raise often in discussion) is not material. No one here is advocating breaking any laws and it doesn't change the discussion to suggest it.
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No - if you read the above properly, I did not raise the issue of legality - it was in the original post = which said this was 'against regulations'.
I asked what regulations, and had no answer..
 
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