Przewalski's Horses at US livestock auctions

birdsandbats said:
I assume they entered the trade via surplus animals from the SSP?
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Okay so, this is probably going to sound pretty conspiracy theory-is, but I'm convinced that I may have figured out the answer to this question.

In 2009, a man by the name of William (Bill) Gruenerwald died. This is his obituary: William Gruenerwald Obituary (2009) - Colorado Springs, CO - The Gazette

In 1980, he bought a ranch in far northeastern New Mexico. He proceeded to turn said ranch into a large scale breeding facility for endangered equines. It was called the Canyon Colorado Equid Sanctuary.

You can find a brochure for the real estate listing for the ranch, here: https://www.land.com/api/documents/2745996094/NMMoraHarding11325.pdf

Canyon Colorado Equid Sanctuary received its first Przewalski's horses in 1989, as this document shows: https://portals.iucn.org/library/sites/library/files/documents/Rep-1990-074.pdf

Now, by 2007, the initial herd of Przewalski's horses had grown to number 82 animals. As this (Desreputable source) shows: https://saenonline.org/co/res-fr-co-cces-aphis-2007-2.html

As detailed elsewhere on this very website by users @
@okapikpr @Tennessee @Safari Park and @Kifaru Bwana this collection was liquidated prior to William Gruenerwald's death, mostly in 2008. Apparently the rare equids were sold to various dealers via a public auction???

Anyway, about a year ago, I stumbled across an ad for a most unusual horse... A Norwegian Fjord/Przewalski's horse cross colt that is! Here's an archived version of the ad: Exotic Horse Cross

"His father is a full blooded Norwegian fjord and his mother is a Przewalski’s horse that came from a conservation place in New Mexico." -From the ad.

Now, what "conservation place in New Mexico" do we know of? Canyon Colorado Equid Sanctuary! It's perfectly possible that the colts mother really did originate from there! Equines are long lived on a whole, plus Przewalski's originally from CCES still exist within the AZA's Przewalski population!

Yes, really! One of the two P-Horse mares that relatively recently arrived at the San Francisco Zoo is stated to be from there! Source: FYI: The San Francisco Zoo Just Welcomed Two Rare AF Horses

So, I propose that all privately owned Przewalski's horses in the US either originated from, or are the descendants of animals originally from, CCES. The timeline just fits too perfectly for that to not be the case.

Plus, I know of no other source/s of P-Horses that private citizens could've gotten their hands on other than the CCES dispersal.

Oh, and just for fun: Abe Millar's (The "breeder" of the Norwegian Fjord/Przewalski's crossbred colt) website: https://abemillar.wixsite.com/abram-millar/animals-and-things

As the many photos show, he definitely has a breeding herd of P-Horses.
 
USZOOfan42 said:
A breeder in Texas, I don’t recall the name and I don’t know how they acquired them. Edit- I found the name, Twin Pine Farm.
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South Carolina, actually! This same facility also seems to be the source of a lot of the Geoffroy's and leopard cats found outside of the AZA. It's actually slightly frustrating that all of these super enticing species are coming out of somewhere so close by me yet I don't have a good avenue of seeing them. Also frustrating that to my understanding, aardwolves have highly specialized dietary needs that I was under the impression hadn't been fully "cracked" for keeping them in captivity outside of the most serious of places, so I can't imagine the ones proliferating from here are going to end well :(
 
A small update - Przewalski or not? Mystery horses captivate social media | AGDAILY

And of a more personal matter, I've emailed no less than five different AZA zoo officials whom I know to be involved with the P-Horse SSP about these two P-Horses. Thus far, I've only heard back from two - Minnesota Zoo's registrar Laurie Kokkeler & The Living Desert's
Amanda Faliano; Whose apparently the studbook keeper and vice coordinator for the P-Horse program nowadays.

Kokkeler was completely unaware of the situation regarding these horses and was basically aghast that P-Horses were available in the private trade. She told me that the USFW only allows the trade of P-Horses between AZA zoos who have to have in order permits to house the species! And that both the USFW and the AZA would never allow surplus P-Horses to be disposed of via livestock auctions.

Meanwhile, Faliano told me that she was aware of these P-Horses, and that work was currently being done with governmental agencies to assess the overall situation. Contact has been made with both parties currently caring for the P-Horses.
 
The funniest thing I remember relating to this is that when I first checked exotic animals for sale dot com, I remember seeing a broker offering a Zorse with not only a takhi parents but also a grevy’s zebra as the zebra half of the horse. Since then I was not able to find the ad but now seeing this I can see this hybrid as a real animal.

Wisp O' Mist said:
Faliano told me that she was aware of these P-Horses,
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I wonder for how long.
 
PossumRoach said:
The funniest thing I remember relating to this is that when I first checked exotic animals for sale dot com, I remember seeing a broker offering a Zorse with not only a takhi parents but also a grevy’s zebra as the zebra half of the horse.
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I wonder if that was one of Abe Millar's... unique creations. He's advertised a Norwegian Fjord/Przewalski's horse cross colt before, plus there's a suspicious looking foal on his website...

(Which shows that he has Grevy’s zebras too, btw.)
 
Arbuckle Wilderness Safari in Oklahoma is a non-AZA zoo that supposedly has/had Przewalski's Horse. There are pictures of them in the ZooChat gallery.

full


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Both from @jbnbsn99

USDA reports as of 3/2024 also lists them as a holder of 2 horses.
 
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birdsandbats said:
Unless they mean Heck Horses.
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Heck Horses aren't wild.

They have Przewalski's horse admixture yes, but it occurred generations ago. As in, like, twice overall. First in the 1930's, and then again in the 1970's.

I also happen to be in contact with the people running the US Heck Horse registry. There's been no mention of any of the current private owners being approached by Wilderness Trails Zoo about selling their horses to them.

There's less than a hundred Heck Horses total in North America, believe me, the community is stupidly close-knit. That kind of information would quickly get out.

There are two "zoos" with Heck Horses, though. Shalom Wildlife Zoo in Wisconsin and Magnetic Hill Zoo in New Brunswick. So, I suppose it's possible that Wilderness Trails Zoo intends to source Heck Horses from them.
 
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