BREXIT issues 2023
- Thread starter TriUK
- Start date
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
The other issue which is the animal world's version of the 'emperors new clothes' is that from 2030 or 35 or whenever, all the vans which do these road moves will be electric - with ranges of perhaps 75 to 150 miles. That wont allow Yorkshire Wildlife Park (for example) to even collect animals from Heathrow or Colchester, or Marwell, let alone drive to the mainland to collect them.
The ostriches approach to this is being taken, in the hope it will all eventually go away? - or that there will be an unknown technical revolution in just 6 years.
Maybe the diesel vans will go on forever, like the old American cars in Cuba; but these will be very difficult to get inspected and be fit for long journeys.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bird transports from the UK to the EU might be hard, but they are not impssible. I know Burgers' Zoo imported several birds from the UK last year and sent some of them to Germany after quarantine.
Also if you post about regulation make sure it is correct.... There will be a ban on selling diesel/gasoline cars and vans from 2035 onwards, lorries will be exempted until 2040. But this means any car or lorry bought before won't be taken off the streets, so will be around for at least 10-15 years longer. Seeing all the innovation of the past 10 years, who knows what is possible 10 years from now... At least the EU has created an incentive
Last edited by a moderator:
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Bird transports from the UK to the EU might be hard, but they are not impssible. I know Burgers' Zoo imported several birds from the UK last year and sent some of them to Germany after quarantine.
Also if you post about regulation make sure it is correct.... There will be a ban on selling diesel/gasoline cars and vans from 2035 onwards, lorries will be exempted until 2040. But this means any car or lorry bought before won't be taken off the streets, so will be around for at least 10-15 years longer. Seeing all the innovation of the past 10 years, who knows what is possible 10 years from now... At least the EU has created an incentive
I got it perfectly correct, IF you read or re-read what I said.
VERY few commercial animal transporters or zoos themselves would be able to use a 15 year old van for long (or even short) distance animal moves - as you suggest.
Just because you disagree with my point, does not make it wrong.
Last edited by a moderator:
I reread it (again) and you state that from 2030 or 2035 all the road moves will be electric, which is not true. Which such new regulations everyone and their mother will profit from the old laws just before they expire. These transport companies will make sure to buy a new diesel/gasolene van in 2034 that will be of use for years beyond 2035. It is not as if all these diesel vans will stop driving at new years eve as you write.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
The rules on horses (travelling back and forth or moving residence, racing, other professional or personal roles) did not change greatly under the new regime, with the amendments to authority on issuing passports but not much else. Horses aren't an exotic animal and their transport is more akin to livestock though done by separate specialist movers in most cases. Horses can travel on their own passport in and out of the UK within 90 days without having to move passport registration anyway and any moving on a permanent basis just need a new passport issued. The main change was in the style of the horse health check certificates required but that was just about revised certification and there were some revised isolation requirements but they haven't impacted competition. It added paperwork of a different sort, some more checks and a deal of bureacracy. Friends of mine regularly move competition horses Brexit hasn't changed it much, beyond more papers needed and the pointless increase in cost for tests that people voted we apparently really needed.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
No I didnt - I said that the vans that do these moves will be electric not that 'all the road moves will be electric'. I never mentioned new years eve.
My point still stands - that ALL of these transport companies use new or nearly new vehicles, and these WILL by whichever date you allow, will be ALL electric. Getting an old van approved for animal moves is very difficult, and as it ages requires a chain of breakdown cover provided by new(er) ones.
Whichever date you choose to hide behind, it will eventually be here.
Last edited:
Mmm, thanks, maybe racing money talks.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Racehorses and other (wild and domestic) equines have always had separate arrangements and continue to do so. If it was as easy as calling a horse transporter and they'd move the exotics, zoos would be doing just that.
One obvious difference is that horse transport uses approved layerage points (farms/stables) either side of the channel and at distances on the journey, where animals are unloaded, fed+watered and Vet checked - with domestics at any rate. This can hardly be done with a wild animal in a crate.
Remember too that the horse-racing industry is incredibly wealthy and has a very strong lobby.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
The same applies to any horse sport and horses moved that are for personal / private use, it's a long standing and regular movement for the species. So not really driven by racing, just arrangements made for the very large numbers of horses moving around UK to Ireland and the rest of the EU. Though, thank goodness, now not shipped in cramped mean conditions for slaughter.
Quite!
Well given your profession you obviously know better than I do, though I find it very surprising animal moves are only done in vehicles of max 1-2 years old.
In the end it will indeed be electric at some point, but unlike Cuba the EU is a hugely important consumer market, so the r&d of car companies will be very busy to improve their batteries. And given improvemens the past 10 years, it is more likely than not we will see significant changes in the meantime.
And even with an unlikely 150 mileage battery limit, these transports from e.g. yorkshire to heathrow will still be possible, they just require a quick recharge along the way (and drivers need breaks anyways). So the journey takes a bit longer. But as you import animals animals from Australia you should know that longer traveling times don't mean something is impossible (though might well be less easy), but that the logistics change.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Several points here - and again ALL I am doing is correcting miss-information and accusations of ignorance.
What you are surprised by has no connection to the facts, either way.
I do not import animals from Australia.
The battery limit on a Citroen 'Relay' for example (a van used by a lot of couriers, especially those on the mainland where the model is called a 'Jumper') is currently 75 miles, without a payload and on a warm day. This would not do 1/4 of many UK road journeys without 3 extended full charges.
Drivers of such vans do not require rest breaks, these are for large vehicles with tachometers.
The trip from the north of England to the south would always be done in one stint, perhaps by more than one driver, but not with an extended rest stop at a service station which may (or may not) have functioning charging points.
Longer travelling times by air have no connection to road transport, where vehicles and couriers have always had time limits for journeys.
All contingencies have to be built into a transport plan to make it legal, including what happens if a planned stop at a recharging station were to be aborted due to chargers not working or not available.
As its stands such movements could not be considered in an electric van.
Last edited by a moderator:
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Reptiles are not subject to the same requirements as mammals, and especially birds and newts/salamanders.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
It IS absolutely driven by racing.
The 'long-standing' arrangements you to refer to are a tri-partite agreement between the UK, France and Ireland, specifically set up for racing. Other equine moves piggy-back under these rules and are different outside those 3 countries, although still well established. Wild equines come under the same legislation and require full horse passports, but of course their transport requirements are quite different.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
There are a large number of vans that do far more miles than 75. Picking the lowest range van to illustrate the state of all vans isn’t really that helpful. Petrol and diesel vans need fuelling too or there would be no service stations facilitating long journeys.
If you don’t drive an EV it’s common to think there are rarely any working chargers. Not the case.
It’s also common to think charging takes an extended time. This is usually due to people thinking as they did when they had a regular car - that you ‘fill up’ at every stop. The main difference with EVs is you charge only what you need at fast public chargers. It takes a bit of getting used to as it is a mind shift.
I drive an EV that is a company car. Further, part of our van fleet also covers deliveries of goods in rural, not town, areas is electric, not subject to the limited miles stated in the post and not experiencing the issues stated. Worth also highlighting the breaks available to companies for moving to electric fleets. One of the reasons people are doing it. I drive hundreds of miles in areas with rural infrastructure…just to present a different perspective.
Technical advances happen all the time in this space. It certainly needs a greater level of attention and investment to take HGVs etc into EV let alone move public and general use cars over as the expense and the battery renewals are two hige challenges (which you don’t mention but would be a better argument against EVs if you wanted to make them on a more informed basis) and it’s by no means in a perfect state or all ready but it’s far from nonsense to do so and far from as gloomy as something like Brexit.
If you don’t drive an EV it’s common to think there are rarely any working chargers. Not the case.
It’s also common to think charging takes an extended time. This is usually due to people thinking as they did when they had a regular car - that you ‘fill up’ at every stop. The main difference with EVs is you charge only what you need at fast public chargers. It takes a bit of getting used to as it is a mind shift.
I drive an EV that is a company car. Further, part of our van fleet also covers deliveries of goods in rural, not town, areas is electric, not subject to the limited miles stated in the post and not experiencing the issues stated. Worth also highlighting the breaks available to companies for moving to electric fleets. One of the reasons people are doing it. I drive hundreds of miles in areas with rural infrastructure…just to present a different perspective.
Technical advances happen all the time in this space. It certainly needs a greater level of attention and investment to take HGVs etc into EV let alone move public and general use cars over as the expense and the battery renewals are two hige challenges (which you don’t mention but would be a better argument against EVs if you wanted to make them on a more informed basis) and it’s by no means in a perfect state or all ready but it’s far from nonsense to do so and far from as gloomy as something like Brexit.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
As my father was a racehorse and event horse trainer for 20 plus years I think I know a little bit about horse movements and the agreements that drive them, but thanks for sharing the thoughts on it.
Or maybe the use of horses is more culturally accepted than non-domesticated species which is why the government is more inclined to make things easier for horse owners than the zoo and wildlife trade industry.