Zoo/Aquarium Hot Takes

cerperal said:
Perhaps a hotter take would be that I don't particularly rate the Berlin bird house very highly. It's laid out terribly with multiple repeating exhibits in the wrong continent sections, the walk-throughs are sparse and a lot of the cages are sparse-r. Saving graces come in the form of the several rarities and the brilliant kiwi room. The Tierpark's Pheasantry is far superior to me.

That being said...I think the Zoo's Pheasantry is very good and a standout of the zoo that isn't mentioned enough.
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I actually prefer the Pheasantry at Zoo Berlin too - although I hold both in high regard.

The Pheasantry at Tierpark Berlin - which obviously isn't a bird house per se, and as such is something of a digression - used to be very good, but is now extremely run-down and sparsely-occupied sad to say!
 
Lafone said:
I am not an authentic zoo nerd. I definitely enjoy meerkats and they are not even a guilty pleasure. I do wish there were many more types of Herpestidae exhibted more frequently; there's so many to enjoy!
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And of course the "hatred" of Meerkats is only a European phenomenon. They're not as ubiquitous in North American zoos as they are in Europe. In fact, prairie dogs are the species filling that zoo niche over here, primarily.
 
As an American who recently visited Europe for the first time... I used to find the meerkat thing very silly, couldn't understand the dislike for them. Doing research for my trip, it hit different to see them listed at alpaca farms and places like Johnson's of Old Hurst, which has a small species list, Battersea, and Birmingham, which is mostly forest species, and even Yorkshire which dedicates them a very large enclosure. London seemed to have two enclosures for them although I found out during my trip one of these was recently converted for dwarf mongoose. The sense they are everywhere is indeed quite prevalent even as a casual visitor.

While they are common in the US, the sense of ubiquity is less overwhelming.
 
Lafone said:
I am not an authentic zoo nerd. I definitely enjoy meerkats and they are not even a guilty pleasure. I do wish there were many more types of Herpestidae exhibted more frequently; there's so many to enjoy!
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Isn't how common meerkats are though part of the reason that there aren't more of other mongoose species around?

I can understand why zoos would want them though and there are a lot of commercial reasons for them to do so, a very popular species that would be inexpensive to keep and wouldn't take up a huge amount of space.

One thing I will admit about meerkats is that I am surprised there isn't a common misconception that they come from Russia due to a particular advertising campaign.

I have nothing against them, or any other species, but zoos above a certain size having meerkats, ring-tailed lemurs and wallabies is almost the third certainty in life after death and taxes.
 
NMM said:
One thing I will admit about meerkats is that I am surprised there isn't a common misconception that they come from Russia due to a particular advertising campaign.
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I'm more surprised that nobody has started thinking they're somehow closely related to wombats
 
NMM said:
Isn't how common meerkats are though part of the reason that there aren't more of other mongoose species around?
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Exactly. The more one species gets popular, the less demand similar species receive which could also be seen with ring-tailed lemurs and red-necked wallabies.

There is, however, an extra factor for the United States. Meerkats are listed as injurious species under the Lacey act in the United States which has almost every mongoose listed as injurious, making it difficult to import and transfer mongooses between state lines.

NMM said:
One thing I will admit about meerkats is that I am surprised there isn't a common misconception that they come from Russia due to a particular advertising campaign
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I don’t think compare the market has a big presence outside the United Kingdom.
 
birdsandbats said:
And of course the "hatred" of Meerkats is only a European phenomenon. They're not as ubiquitous in North American zoos as they are in Europe. In fact, prairie dogs are the species filling that zoo niche over here, primarily.
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JVM said:
As an American who recently visited Europe for the first time... I used to find the meerkat thing very silly, couldn't understand the dislike for them. Doing research for my trip, it hit different to see them listed at alpaca farms and places like Johnson's of Old Hurst, which has a small species list, Battersea, and Birmingham, which is mostly forest species, and even Yorkshire which dedicates them a very large enclosure. London seemed to have two enclosures for them although I found out during my trip one of these was recently converted for dwarf mongoose. The sense they are everywhere is indeed quite prevalent even as a casual visitor.

While they are common in the US, the sense of ubiquity is less overwhelming.
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I personally wouldn't call it 'hatred' or 'dislike.' I like meerkats as a species, but have seen them so many times that I simply don't prioritise them over other animals. This applies to all animals that I have seen many times before, unless they tend to be doing something interesting or entertaining in zoos, because surely that (observing interesting behaviour from animals) is what zoos are all about? Lemurs tend to deliver on that front, and meerkats don't, which is why I am grateful for the former being so common, and less so for the latter, although I am also by no means critical of it. If I am at Zurich, then it is hard for me to justify spending more than ten seconds watching their meerkats when I have Masoala to the south, Kaeng Krachan to the north and Lewa Savanne right besides me? How could I enjoy the meerkats at Prague, when on the back of my mind there is the knowledge that I could be watching a pangolin? They are lovely species and many of the people who I most often visit zoos with love them, so I can understand their value in a zoo. I just chose not to watch them.
 
I've got a few:
  • Koeln is the best non-specialist zoo for birds in Europe, probably top two/three worldwide, especially when Regenwald is back open.
  • Tierpark Berlin is considerably better than its Western counterpart.
  • Doue is top ten in Europe.
 
Idk if I'm just in a foul mood regarding the subject but I'm mad at the AZA for phasing out so many species, many of which are endangered and could be brought up in numbers with hard work

Especially reading that the ssp for the Somali wild ass has recently been discontinued shows me that the AZA as an institution doesn't actually care about conservation or educating the public about endangered species.

I argue it's the responsibility of many zoos to call this out as, down the line, this will do more damage to zoos as a whole than any animal rights groups.
 
USZOOfan42 said:
Little to no zoos do this, I believe Bronx is the only one. I completely agree on this statement though.
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I'd argue that either more zoos should do this or that the public should be made aware of how badly many species are being wantonly neglected.

Ngl, I know bad words aren't allowed here but I have some choice ones for the people running the AZA. Hell, I'd write a letter if enough people were willing to help me workshop it

How are TAG's, are they better?
 
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I feel like I've covered this elsewhere, as have a few other folks, but just to clarify something, AZA does not "phase species" out. They cannot and do not tell zoos, no you can't have Somali wild asses, or whatever other species you'd like. If the breeding of Somali wild asses picks up and additional zoos in sufficient numbers start working with that species, the Equid TAG may very well re-evaluate at their next RCP and decide that it does qualify as an SSP. Nothing is written in stone, and I doubt that any zoo that works with asses is going to get out of them for this reason.

Historically, only a very small number of species were managed as SSPs, PMPs, and DERPs. Then, AZA began moving to the mindset of having everything as an SSP, with everything having population planning sessions and formally published studbooks and breeding and transfer plans, and so on. The result was over 500 studbooks, some of which clearly weren't going anywhere. The first time I applied for a studbook, the TAG chair wrote back to me - quite sheepishly - to tell me that there was only a single animal in that population, so no, my services probably wouldn't be required.

Not being an official SSP doesn't mean that zoos aren't allowed to work with a species, and plenty of species that have never been SSPs have been and are still being bred in AZA facilities. It really just means that they don't have the resources of the PMC behind them at for population planning (unless they opt to pay for it themselves). I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
 
Aardwolf said:
I feel like I've covered this elsewhere, as have a few other folks, but just to clarify something, AZA does not "phase species" out. They cannot and do not tell zoos, no you can't have Somali wild asses, or whatever other species you'd like. If the breeding of Somali wild asses picks up and additional zoos in sufficient numbers start working with that species, the Equid TAG may very well re-evaluate at their next RCP and decide that it does qualify as an SSP. Nothing is written in stone, and I doubt that any zoo that works with asses is going to get out of them for this reason.

Historically, only a very small number of species were managed as SSPs, PMPs, and DERPs. Then, AZA began moving to the mindset of having everything as an SSP, with everything having population planning sessions and formally published studbooks and breeding and transfer plans, and so on. The result was over 500 studbooks, some of which clearly weren't going anywhere. The first time I applied for a studbook, the TAG chair wrote back to me - quite sheepishly - to tell me that there was only a single animal in that population, so no, my services probably wouldn't be required.

Not being an official SSP doesn't mean that zoos aren't allowed to work with a species, and plenty of species that have never been SSPs have been and are still being bred in AZA facilities. It really just means that they don't have the resources of the PMC behind them at for population planning (unless they opt to pay for it themselves). I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
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Idk maybe it was that equine thread but I still feel like there's a plague of mismanagement among many taxa
 
I get your disappointment, but here's the reality of the new SSP rules. Under the old system, the TAG decided what species it wanted to work with, based on a combination of conservation status, educational value, public and institutional interest, and, of course, availability, set the desired population sizes, and then told the SSP Coordinators, "Make it so." The result was lots of frazzled folks (all of whom have full time zoo jobs and are trying to do their programs on the side) working hard to try to boost populations of species that, in some cases... no one really wanted. SHOULD people have wanted to those species? In many cases, yes. But that wasn't how reality played out.

The new system is more driven bottom-up. It takes a look at what species are here and doing well, that the member institutions want to work with, and it focuses on those. Historically, most US zoos were run by directors, who were former keepers and curators who worked their way up the ladder. Now, many are run by CEOs and Presidents, who were brought in to keep institutions financially viable. The frustrating truth is that, in each taxa, there's a small handful of species which just... work well. They're easy to get ahold of, the husbandry is easier, maybe expense of care is cheaper, the public loves them, etc. Consider prosimians. Ring-tailed lemurs are social, diurnal, and instantly recognizable by the public. Most other lemurs are... not that. If a zoo director wants a lemur exhibit, who do you think their go-to species will be?

So, I suppose what am getting at is, AZA isn't the villain here. They're just reflecting the reality of the situation. More diverse animal collections is something that I'd certainly love to see, as a zoo professional and as a visitor. But that kind of change isn't going to come from AZA down - it's going to have to come from the individual zoos and climb upward.
 
Kalaw said:
I personally wouldn't call it 'hatred' or 'dislike.' I like meerkats as a species, but have seen them so many times that I simply don't prioritise them over other animals. This applies to all animals that I have seen many times before, unless they tend to be doing something interesting or entertaining in zoos, because surely that (observing interesting behaviour from animals) is what zoos are all about? Lemurs tend to deliver on that front, and meerkats don't, which is why I am grateful for the former being so common, and less so for the latter, although I am also by no means critical of it. If I am at Zurich, then it is hard for me to justify spending more than ten seconds watching their meerkats when I have Masoala to the south, Kaeng Krachan to the north and Lewa Savanne right besides me? How could I enjoy the meerkats at Prague, when on the back of my mind there is the knowledge that I could be watching a pangolin? They are lovely species and many of the people who I most often visit zoos with love them, so I can understand their value in a zoo. I just chose not to watch them.
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I find everything in your post perfectly agreeable. I have no problem with people choosing to prioritize certain species over others, and I certainly did not prioritize them on my trip either. ;) There have been occasional comments over the years by some users that sound more outright dislike than low priority though.

tigris115 said:
Especially reading that the ssp for the Somali wild ass has recently been discontinued shows me that the AZA as an institution doesn't actually care about conservation or educating the public about endangered species.
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The AZA is moving away from the Species Survival Plans to consortium programs for management purposes, which will allow zoos more choice in which species are managed and probably lead to the exact outcome you're looking for. I imagine the Somalian Wild Ass will be a consortium in no time as facilities like Denver and Saint Louis seem dedicated to the species.
 
remar said:
I've one for Czechia. Zlin is better than Praha.
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Zlin appeals to casual local visitors more than Praha because it caters better to their needs and expectations. That´s not a hot take, I see people share this sentiment daily. But to call Zlin to be actually a better zoo (inclusive bts stuff or its lack of transparency etc) - it is.
 
I’d just congratulate @Kalaw for having some hot takes that created some interesting conversations. I’m a big fan of bird houses and am planning a euro trip am keeping an eye on the view of the best ones. And there of course will be meerkats everywhere as a bonus.
 
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