Perhaps the kookaburra exhibits will be for two different species?
Brookfield Zoo Master Plan Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter pachyderm pro
- Start date
Perhaps the kookaburra exhibits will be for two different species?
By indoor habitat building to remain does that mean the echidnas will be staying there? If there are any species currently indoor that will be outdoors in the future could that mean their enclosures will get used by other species?
This I truly wonder too. Some species like the bats, wombats, and other species can work fine indoors. The former Kookaburra room could be given to a galah or other Australian bird.
theangryquokka
New Member
Late to the party but I wonder why the indoor koala holding isn't connected/viewable to the main building like the tasmanian devil holding is?
Decent video. A lot of the explanation is stuff we already know but the site plans and new concept art look great.
I also appreciated the slide highlighting the importance of bringing back elephants and community demand. I know there's a lot of cynicism to that aspect of the plan and I'm glad they are framing it as responding to demand. I also notice they actually stated outright the new exhibit will be a mixed-species elephant habitat!
It's hard to see the Bear Grotto art well but it looks to me less like populating the existing grottos and using the existing rockwork as a backdrop to construct new habitats. This is a smart route as it could allow more space for the bears, better views for guests and if they reduce the species numbers, the existing grottos could be reduced to three or four larger spaces instead of the five current.
The Conservation Campus site plan impressed me, too. The paths leading to the hospital's public viewing will be new and constitute some southern expansion to the park visitor-wise and I think letting visitors in on the zoo's conservation work is very smart!
It's tempting to suggest some more ambitious ideas, but I hope it simply indicates intent to keep an indoor exhibit available for the penguins and seabirds for the winter. It would be cool if they could include some satellite exhibits like the Living Coast has had over the years, and keep a penguin encounter room. I'm still a big believer in dual indoor/outdoor access so I hope they intend to keep that in this and some of their other ideas.
Good point about birds of paradise! I hadn't considered that.
I definitely agree it seems logical to close most of the Northwest and work on as much of it at once as possible, particularly Australia and the first phase of Africa. The integration between the Savanna/Pachyderm House/Australia is all pretty intensive and it would be hard to have paths weaving between and around those areas (separately) during construction. I do think there would be some time to leave The Forest open as there looks to be sufficient pathing to the present separating it from other construction; even if work were being done on the new pygmy hippopotamus/bongo exhibits and the early stages of the elephant and rhino expansions, I think the path north from Tropical Forests could still lead to the current loop without being infringed by work unless changes were made to the existing building or loop, which could be a much shorter phase of construction.
I think your timeline is pretty solid for openings!
I don't think any species held indoors would be moved outdoors fully. The wombats getting outdoor access was discussed on either this or a previous master plan but I am a bit unsure they would remove their indoor viewing entirely, especially when they previously had a lot of breeding success in an indoor, nocturnal setting. I can't see the echidna being moved outside or their current enclosures being altered much - best case scenario is the current echidna/kookaburra exhibit is altered and echidna are limited to the nocturnal room again.
I assume anywhere it says "indoor building to remain" they mean essentially untouched at this stage of planning, although we'll see. I could see the Habitat Africa Forest building being altered if they intend to build Bongo and Pygmy Hippopotamus barns so close to the existing structure, and I am personally a big fan of dual indoor and outdoor access for species.
I'm definitely curious what will happen to that space!
It's curious how the aviary lineup will evolve. I wonder if they may do some mixed species work there. They once mixed several Australian finches successfully, and I know Indianapolis has multiple cockatoo mixed in their Kangaroo Crossing walkthrough. Could be cool to see a couple mixed cockatoo here -- plus the zoo has a long history with Australian birds.
Maybe the Koala can use an underground tunnel between habitats? (Probably not likely but I recall believing of a setup like this as a child.) It's a good question.
The current Masterplan views are all solid. I do agree @pachyderm's assumed timelines are probably correct and very much realistic! Once, I was rather in doubt where the Chicago Brookfield Zoo was going under Dr. Rabb ..., but given this new Masterplan and the redirection and focus on the zoo as a starting point for the Zoo's global impact on biodiversity conservation I am really looking forward to the first 2 phases Australia and Africa!
At this stage: Is it known how much funding for the Masterplan is already secured or fulfilled ...., so the Zoo management and project staff can work towards making it a reality?
Craig Billington
Well-Known Member
When the Masterplan was released the zoo said they had already raised almost $200 million of the $500. Since then I have heard they have raised about half of the total so presumably about $250 million. About a week ago I received a fundraising letter in the mail so it would seem fundraising has publicly begun. I doubt the $500 million figure is for the entire 4 phases of the plan. I am not sure if it includes phase 1 which is almost complete. I think it maybe only for phase 2 with $100 million being an endowment and $400 million going toward all the phase 2 projects. I suspect phases 3 and 4 would then need additional money.
I think you might mean Dr. Stuart Strahl, who served as director from 2003 to 2021, rather than Dr. George Rabb, who Strahl succeeded.
I don't believe any of phase one is included as there was a significant donation after Tropical Forests' construction started that helped fund it. (You probably remember this yourself, but maybe some reading won't.) Tropical Forests was the capstone of the first phase from the looks of it, and reports from before this donation was received suggested Tropical Forests cost around $66 million to build. The completed Seven Seas reno was around $10 million and also part of phase one. So the zoo has presumably had $116 million available and invested in phase one between these figures. I'm assuming based on this that everything completed and open to the public is paid for, and Tropical Forests looks to have extra money available, so I believe we can assume none of these are part of the ongoing funding drive.
My assumption is it sounds like the $500 million figure is towards the second phase of the plan, which will include Australia, both phases of Gateway to Africa and Coasts of the Americas. Given we are getting a new building and four outdoor enclosures under the near $100 current figure, multiply that from one hundred to five hundred... that sounds proportionately plausible, so as long as the economy is reasonable and funding received, I think we'll comfortably see Gateway to Africa completed by the end of it as a worst-case scenario. It's hard to ballpark the cost for Coasts of the Americas, but Houston's Galapagos exhibit which also features penguins and sea lions was around $70 million; however Omaha's Sea Lion Shores was $26 million, and (a bit further back) Saint Louis' Sea Lion Sound were $18 million, so we may not need as much. If we assume around $50m for Coasts and $50m for Australia, we'd still have $200m for each phase of Africa, which is pretty good.
I imagine there'll be separate funding goals for the third and/or fourth phase, but the above should bring us close to the Centenary and the return of popular megafauna should increase revenue and some positive publicity enough that it'll be less of an uphill climb for the Asia Steppe/amphitheater/Bear Grottos phase.
As far as physical construction, no. Until Tropical Forests is complete I wouldn't expect any updates on future projects. Whether it be Australia or Gateway to Africa, whatever's next likely won't break ground until 2026 at the earliest.
I'm curious about something - since the ring-tailed lemurs are temporarily in Clouded Leopard Rain Forest and the gorilla exhibit in Tropic World is empty, wouldn't the logical move be to then move the lemurs into the old gorilla exhibit? Brookfield could even make it a multispecies exhibit, bringing in other lemur species (e.g. red ruffed lemurs, collared lemurs, crowned lemurs, Coquerel's sifakas, etc.)
Technically it wouldn't be "Africa" as much as it would be Africa-adjacent, but that being said, the zoo would need a popular species that isn't a controversial one to keep indoors, and the lemurs would go from a tiny, dark exhibit to a significantly larger, brightly lit exhibit.
Technically it wouldn't be "Africa" as much as it would be Africa-adjacent, but that being said, the zoo would need a popular species that isn't a controversial one to keep indoors, and the lemurs would go from a tiny, dark exhibit to a significantly larger, brightly lit exhibit.
To be honest, if it's between lemurs and mandrills, I will take lemurs as more lemur species in the zoo could be a huge game changer.
The tricky thing is the gorilla enclosure is pretty large and clearly designed with the expectation you'd be looking from a distance at a larger species that uses the ground, and so to me part of why mandrill are an attractive option for replacement, combined with the fact they live in large troops in the wild and it's a great space for a larger troop to grow, is that they are large and recognizable in a space like that... I feel putting anything smaller in there would run the risk of being almost lost in the larger scale of the exhibit, especially if it were a smaller group.
I think for lemurs to work, you'd probably want a larger grouping including some of the colorful species. A small group would be dwarfed in the space a little too much, I suspect, but a large group could really liven up both the space and frankly the building as a whole. This makes it very much a "go big or go home" sort of proposal in my eyes though.
Relatedly, I'd still really like the zoo to include primates somewhere on the campus outside Tropic World in the long-term future.
I think for lemurs to work, you'd probably want a larger grouping including some of the colorful species. A small group would be dwarfed in the space a little too much, I suspect, but a large group could really liven up both the space and frankly the building as a whole. This makes it very much a "go big or go home" sort of proposal in my eyes though.
Relatedly, I'd still really like the zoo to include primates somewhere on the campus outside Tropic World in the long-term future.
Mandrill would certainly be nice, but I think lemurs would be fine in the exhibit. The other areas of the same building house similarly sized primates in much larger enclosures and it works. I think the side exhibit at the very least provides a good space for lemurs or some new monkey species.
I disagree that "other areas of the same building house similarly sized primates in much larger enclosures and it works". Tropic World Asia and Tropical World Africa are depressingly empty. I do not think it works. South America is the only worthwhile section of the building. The former gorilla exhibit is kind of just an awful space for anything they put there.
I very explicitly hope they do not get mandrills under any circumstance!
Given the emphasis on providing outdoor access to as many species as possible -- both with regards to Tropical Forests and the master plan as a whole -- I have a difficult time envisioning what could be done with the enclosure. One option is to just remove the net underneath the bridge and expand the current African monkey enclosure, but that space already feels a bit understocked as is. It could work nicely however if they increase the number of inhabitants by expanding the existing groups of colobus and red-tailed monkeys while adding one or two new species.
Mandrills felt like the obvious replacement initially and the exhibit is definitely big enough for a larger than usual troop, but I doubt the zoo would want to keep any species of baboon exclusively indoors year-round. It just seems rather contradictory to the goal of getting most of the larger/medium-sized mammals outdoors in some capacity.
A mixed-species lemur exhibit would probably be my first choice. Not quite African obviously, but that hasn't stopped other zoos.
They are small enough to justify keeping indoors, but lively enough to fill out the space well. Lots of potential for interesting species to be brought in and having a dynamic mixed-species exhibit harkens back to Tropic World's original concept of keeping lots of animals together in one big space.
Regardless of what ends up occupying the space, I wonder if they'll make any modifications to the enclosure itself. It's just such an oddly designed exhibit. I haven't even considered anything happening to the small side enclosure. It's been boarded up for years and viewing has always been awkward, so it wouldn't surprise me if they just left it empty. With that said, the zoo has been making an effort to populate empty enclosures as of late, so anything can happen. I just don't know what it would work best for.
Mandrills felt like the obvious replacement initially and the exhibit is definitely big enough for a larger than usual troop, but I doubt the zoo would want to keep any species of baboon exclusively indoors year-round. It just seems rather contradictory to the goal of getting most of the larger/medium-sized mammals outdoors in some capacity.
A mixed-species lemur exhibit would probably be my first choice. Not quite African obviously, but that hasn't stopped other zoos.
They are small enough to justify keeping indoors, but lively enough to fill out the space well. Lots of potential for interesting species to be brought in and having a dynamic mixed-species exhibit harkens back to Tropic World's original concept of keeping lots of animals together in one big space.Regardless of what ends up occupying the space, I wonder if they'll make any modifications to the enclosure itself. It's just such an oddly designed exhibit. I haven't even considered anything happening to the small side enclosure. It's been boarded up for years and viewing has always been awkward, so it wouldn't surprise me if they just left it empty. With that said, the zoo has been making an effort to populate empty enclosures as of late, so anything can happen. I just don't know what it would work best for.
When Burgers Zoo replaced their bighorn sheep in the Desert, they made it into a mixed species environment for black-tailed prairie dogs, North American porcupines and collared peccaries - in the same vein, I could see Brookfield stocking the old gorilla exhibit with large groups of lemurs, or even pulling a San Diego and mixing several different species at once. In San Diego's case, it's ring-tailed lemurs, red ruffed lemurs, blue-eyed black lemurs, Coquerel's sifaka and collared lemurs. I could even see them taking Ramar the gorilla's old retirement exhibit and dimming the lights significantly for aye-ayes.
Now there's some wishful thinking! As much as I'd love Aye-ayes, I think that location wouldn't be ideal as the surrounding room will still be quite bright. They tried something similar with the Pygmy Slow Loris that used to be in one of the side exhibits in the Asia section, and I think it didn't work all that well.
It'd be great to have some of the rarer lemur species, but even just the ruffed lemurs could be perfect inhabitants for that sort of exhibit space.
The old gorilla exhibit is basically a prison by modern standards, no fresh air, enclosed concrete on all sides and small windows. They honestly should have remodeled Tropic World when they had the chance. The space is huge but its just concrete everywhere. Why do the guests get to enjoy real plants when we just visit their home, and none of the actual residents get that privilege? the conditions that TW possess basically make it a green house that could definitely support a real jungle down there. Though the outdoor exhibits are great Chicago gets cold and those tiny primates will have to live inside nov-march/April. im sure the gorillas are more cold tolerant but still.
South america: I don't know what's under the floors but, I would have removed the concrete around the trees and replace them with deep concrete beds that would hold soil and allow for drainage. then plant amazonian flora and add some real trees. the water area would basically be the same but add some aquatic plants to spruce it up.
Asia: Same thing but with native SEA flora and destroy the orangutan island and allow for the species to access the whole habitat. the Asian small clawed otter habitat is very large but maybe add some more enrichment for them.
Africa: Same story but add in native Congolese flora and Destroy the gorilla mountain. combine the two habitats and add in more species, such as the mandrills.
If they wanted too the gorilla space is transformed could be a wonderful spacious area for a lemur exhibit but I doubt they will be placed there.