Edinburgh Zoo Pandas at Edinburgh Zoo

TeaLovingDave said:
I'd be interested to see your source as regards Vienna obtaining a loan extension since your last post in April 2024 - particularly given the potential ramifications which come with the fact Vienna is now involved with the pangolin programme managed by Taipei!
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China, Austria sign new giant panda cooperation agreement

China to send a pair of pandas to Austria for a 10-year cooperation: CWCA - Global Times

There has been several articles about it to be fair - personally I was quite suprised but it does seem to be happening, it’s also on the zoos own website too.
 
GeeZee said:
Hello all,

I see this has now been moved to its own dedicated thread so I may as well post this here in light of the recent AGM meeting and a few developments since (my notes from the AGM are in the EZ thread).

It would appear since my last posting here that several zoos have since signed new agreements with the CWCA bringing Pandas back into the forefront and giving the green light for either a further extension of their ongoing loans, or a new breeding pair of Pandas to replace the aging ones that they have, Vienna & Adelaide Zoo are notable examples , but also Washington Zoo is now going to be expecting a new arrival soon.

While this has taken me by surprise, it is - of course in my eyes a good step forward , it does beg the question why this wasn’t possible for Edinburgh? The Panda enclosure was purpose built in 2019 & could have easily accommodated a new arrival etc.

Edinburgh is a great zoo with or without pandas of course, but RZSS do keep their cards close to their chest in general, (especially when you look at how transparent other zoos are such as the Bristol Zoo Project). I can’t help but feel they didn’t really try and keep the Pandas perhaps partly because the current leadership are quite different to their predecessors with regards to their outlook to the zoo and its future.

Maybe I’m wrong, but that is the impression I get, especially in light of the recent news that other Zoos have managed to broker agreements, which is a shame because Pandas at UK zoos have always been a bit of a rarity as it is.
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What’s an AGM and CWCA?
 
GeeZee said:
There has been several articles about it to be fair - personally I was quite suprised but it does seem to be happening, it’s also on the zoos own website too.
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I'm rather surprised I somehow missed that news - and even more surprised at the news itself, as I had heard rumours that Schonbrunn planned not to renew the loan in order to allow them to get involved with the Taipei pangolin programme long before it became official that the zoo was getting pangolin at all, and hence took the confirmation of the latter as implicit confirmation of the former.

One hopes that trying to have their geopolitical cake and eat it too works out for Schonbrunn....
 
Going back to the original topic though, it does interest me that other zoos have been able to reciprocate an agreement whereas Edinburgh didn’t.

I’m just curious as to whether had they been a bit more willingness (such as the previous leadership did to bring them here) they might of at least attempted to do what some of the other zoos have done, despite the fact that DF had said while they wished they could of kept the pandas, equally they hadn’t reached out politically either. It’s a long drawn out process regardless, but I do think it is a shame that they still haven’t gotten an alternative replacement for them yet either.
 
I think they’ll be better off with the extra £2mil a year in the back pocket. I believe they’re planning to replace with another bear species ASAP.
 
jtrbmvcq said:
I think they’ll be better off with the extra £2mil a year in the back pocket. I believe they’re planning to replace with another bear species ASAP.
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I don’t think they cost that much and I know towards the final years of their tenure, the annual loan to CWCA was costing £375k for both , but I’m not trying to list pros and cons (I’ve done that to some degree in the main thread before), my point is one of curiosity as to why would the zoo say one thing but then do the other.

If it was truly a money issue then I’d rather they of been honest about it to the members, when we’ve now seen recently that other zoos were able to reach an agreement, DZ was citing that they have not had much contact with China giving the impression that it was not of the zoos choice.

They were hoping to get one of the rescue bears perhaps even from Ukraine, but it fell through in the end - although yes at the AGM they did confirm that they still intend to take on a new species of bear.
 
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jtrbmvcq said:
I think they’ll be better off with the extra £2mil a year in the back pocket. I believe they’re planning to replace with another bear species ASAP.
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Would the ‘new’ Panda enclosure be suitable for Polar Bears, if a pond was dug? My issue with some bears is that unless they share with Wolves or say, arctic fox, the exhibit often lies empty during their torpor at key times of the year for visitors.
 
TriUK said:
Would the ‘new’ Panda enclosure be suitable for Polar Bears, if a pond was dug? My issue with some bears is that unless they share with Wolves or say, arctic fox, the exhibit often lies empty during their torpor at key times of the year for visitors.
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Possibly - in general it is a really well designed enclosure, a good idea would be to properly combine the two outside areas together in one big enclosure for something like a polar bear, but given the fact that they were at EZ not that long ago (Mercedes, who passed away shortly before the pandas arrived) & given the success of polar bears more recently at the HWP, I’d highly doubt they’d get another one at EZ, as nice as that would be.
 
TriUK said:
Would the ‘new’ Panda enclosure be suitable for Polar Bears, if a pond was dug? My issue with some bears is that unless they share with Wolves or say, arctic fox, the exhibit often lies empty during their torpor at key times of the year for visitors.
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I don't think the enclosure in question would be large enough, nor is it secure enough to hold Polar Bear without wholesale replacement of all the boundary fencing I suspect.
 
TriUK said:
Would the ‘new’ Panda enclosure be suitable for Polar Bears, if a pond was dug? My issue with some bears is that unless they share with Wolves or say, arctic fox, the exhibit often lies empty during their torpor at key times of the year for visitors.
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That is a good point, but as @GeeZee pointed out chances are Polar bears wouldn't be that likely, but another solution to this issue would be going with a tropical bear species, which would also probably suit the exhibit and the space available better (and I would prefer this rather than having Polar Bears at both RZSS sites, bearing in mind I am yet to visit either of them).
 
They could transform it into a pretty great enclosure for a new pair of sun bears. Equally sloth bears would be a big draw. Either way, whatever goes in there needs to be seen as a ‘worthy replacement’ to the pandas in the public eye.
 
TriUK said:
Kodiak bears?
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Highly unlikely, given there aren't any knocking about barring a singleton in Hungary, and the subspecies would raise the same space and security problems as polar bear.
 
There seem to be two ways to get new bears in the UK zoos at present. One is to follow the current trend of 'rescuing' unfortunate bears from war torn countries or zoos in Europe that either have unwanted surplus or are closing. Obviously species vary in this case. The second method is by deliberate selection of a particular species. I wonder which Edinburgh might adopt in this case.
 
Pertinax said:
There seem to be two ways to get new bears in the UK zoos at present. One is to follow the current trend of 'rescuing' unfortunate bears from war torn countries or zoos in Europe that either have unwanted surplus or are closing. Obviously species vary in this case. The second method is by deliberate selection of a particular species. I wonder which Edinburgh might adopt in this case.
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I have serious reservations where zoos start performing the role of rescue facilities over what they really should focus on or have a global responsbility to put their meagre funds to, ex situ conservation breeding and public awareness and conservation educational roles. The rescue and high profile exploitation for public favour is hardly doing any of that.....
 
I would like to see pandas at London zoo. I know that they don't have the money or space, but it's just a dream I have. Maybe they could like National zoo, but highly doubt it.
 
Xavier GM said:
I would like to see pandas at London zoo. I know that they don't have the money or space, but it's just a dream I have. Maybe they could like National zoo, but highly doubt it.
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I hope so too, London zoo historically always had them, at the time (2011) Edinburgh getting them was a bit of a fluke, Colchester was also a plausible candidate too.

For a time recently it seemed as if the US was going to be without pandas but they have been able to reach new agreements in the past year or so (as have some zoos elsewhere in Europe, which was a big suprise), so while it’s unlikely now , it’s not impossible.

It really would truly be great to have Pandas in Scotland again, such as in the HWP for example, but we can dream! :)
 
GeeZee said:
It really would truly be great to have Pandas in Scotland again, such as in the HWP for example, but we can dream! :)
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I would be worried that bringing giant pandas to the Highlands would turn out as badly as it did for rural Finland. I can’t see them coming back to Scotland any time soon, or less soon unfortunately.
 
Cobi said:
I would be worried that bringing giant pandas to the Highlands would turn out as badly as it did for rural Finland. I can’t see them coming back to Scotland any time soon, or less soon unfortunately.
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I do agree, in Scotland - Edinburgh would still be the more “ideal” place at present if they ever did make a return, but the HWP would be a good setting with much more space.

I think it would of been better if the Finnish pandas went to the capital zoo in Helsinki, which would of helped a lot with international visitors, Ähtäri (where they are currently) is significantly more remote than the HWP is in comparison & inevitably and sadly, Covid was the nail in the coffin, given Finland is a third bigger than the UK but a fraction of the population.
 
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