What makes a major zoo?

[USZOOfan42]

I don't know that I'd call the piano wire at Saint Louis not bars, it's just thinner bars. Saint Louis isn't exactly the crowning achievement of bird houses, either.

I agree that perfectly acceptable isn't what makes a zoo among the best, but note that I didn't say Brookfield's collection was just acceptable. Brookfield does truly have one of the best collections in the country, and as such I do consider it among the best. Of course, Brookfield does have some truly impressive enclosures among its zoo - the non-great ape exhibits in Tropic World are truly something else, though I do fully agree they are well past their prime. I love the cohesive theming of many of the biome buildings in Brookfield (Living Coast, The Swamp, Fragile Desert, ect). Themed buildings like that are some of my favorite zoo exhibits. Overall, I think Brookfield is past its prime, but despite this still among the best, if just barely.

I do, of course, think it is unquestionably above not only most other zoos in the country but most other AZA zoos, as well.

To me a good zoo must have a few amazing exhibits with 3 at Detroit, 4 at Toledo, 3 at Cleveland, all but one at Lincoln Park, All at Omaha, and all but one at Columbus. Brookfield’s habitats to be are outdated and none are that impressive, their biome buildings have horrible viewing and small spaces and Brookfield seemed like the animals had lacking space. St Louis is undoubtedly one of the best zoos in the US. Yes it’s outdated but it still doesn’t fail to deliver.

 

[flatstingray]

Another approach can be taken. Major zoos could be the ones that in general terms you SHOULD NOT miss. At least once in a lifetime, MUST visit within the international Zoo stage. Zoos that you could set alongside Singapore Zoo (and further Mandai zoos), Sea World Abu Dhabi, Zoo Zurich, etc… In this vein, San Diego + SDZSP, Bronx and Omaha are no doubt. But, as an international non-US based zoochatter, given the travel expenses required to get to visit all the amazing US zoos, should I go out of my way to visit Toledo rather than Omaha? How much will I actually be missing when choosing one zoo over the other?

Naturally, personal preferences play a role. Zoochatters that are more into birds will definitely prioritize a visit to Weltvogelpark Walsrode. But I believe it is a mixture of criteria representing the best: amazing facilities, amazing habitats, amazing species, having few to none subpar in any of this categories and that little extra touch of something going beyond special/unique in any (or all) of the above.

 

[Daktari JG]

Until an objective rating system is devised for zoos, there will always be endless arguments (or discussions) about what zoo is better than another.
But even then there would be endless arguments about even what is more important in the objective rating (number of species, acreage, breeding of species, rarity of species variety of menu items, etc etc etc) .

To me in a nutshell a "major" zoo would be of large enough size that it would take at least half a day to see with a good variety of mammals, birds and herps, and perhaps a smattering of fish and inverts). The zoo would have to have at least decent aesthetics. And not have any major
neglect/ abuse problems.

 

[CMP]

What better way to collect thoughts on this other than a zoo tier list! No, not that Zootierliste, I mean an actual tier list, of course


This is how I consider US zoos in my mind. I've tried to keep it balanced for geographic distribution, although there's a number of sub-majors I have left off, especially on the coasts. I didn't bother with minor or obscure other than a few examples. I've left off aquariums and most other specialized facilities as that would complicate things further. The main categories considered are size, collection comprehensiveness, name recognition, and the relevance of the metropolitan areas served. A major zoo and up should take the better part of the day to go through, although many sub-majors could also be large but lacking in other categories.

World Class needs no explanation, elite are not necessarily elite in exhibition but are stand out in enough other ways that they absolutely necessitate a visit. 'Major' zoos are large, popular, recognizable, or stand out in some way, but aren't quite to the 'elite' level.

Sub-majors normally have something holding them back from being 'major' but are otherwise most of the way there and the case could be made for many to be moved up. Minor zoos are smaller facilities with less of a reach and factors like size, popularity, or recognition holding them from being 'sub-major'. Lastly 'obscure' zoos are ones that are not recognizable, large, or serving a large population center, the example being my 'home' zoo.

My rankings are probably highly debatable, and I'd be fine moving things around, this is just how things stand in my mind currently.

 

[JVM]

Regarding Brookfield, I just went through a lot of the same vibes as this discussion in Popular Zoo Mammals and Their Best Exhibits recently and I'm hesitant to revisit the topic too much. Brookfield is one of my home zoos and I love it very dearly, so I am sometimes quite harsh on it but also sometimes willing to defend it.

Obviously a real part of the problem is how we define a "great exhibit" is not always as ironclad as zoochatters like to pretend. Some exhibits that are wonderful for the animals are not great for education or display, some exhibits do an excellent job at educating the public but are not great for animals, and some exhibits met the standards of their time but do not today.

As far as defining a 'major zoo', I feel a lot of people are conflating "major" with "great" in this thread, and I suppose that is their right, but to me, I use a pretty loose definition. I use 'world-class' or 'great' as narrower than 'major'. I consider major zoos those that are respected within the broader zoo community, those with high attendance or popularity, those with larger collections, and sometimes those that are simply extremely well-known. In this sense, major is not always good or great, and this definition can be inclusive in my mind of a facility I may not approve of.

For example, I do consider Lincoln Park a major zoo as it is one of the most visited in the nation. Zoochat often fails to include it in discussion because it is not a large collection or a destination facility, but it receives more visitors than many 'better' facilities and is therefore significant.

I feel lately Zoochat is starting to feel too eager to dismiss the overwhelming majority of zoos for the sake of elevating a small handful of facilities.

 

[USZOOfan42]

What better way to collect thoughts on this other than a zoo tier list! No, not that Zootierliste, I mean an actual tier list, of course


This is how I consider US zoos in my mind. I've tried to keep it balanced for geographic distribution, although there's a number of sub-majors I have left off, especially on the coasts. I didn't bother with minor or obscure other than a few examples. I've left off aquariums and most other specialized facilities as that would complicate things further. The main categories considered are size, collection comprehensiveness, name recognition, and the relevance of the metropolitan areas served. A major zoo and up should take the better part of the day to go through, although many sub-majors could also be large but lacking in other categories.

World Class needs no explanation, elite are not necessarily elite in exhibition but are stand out in enough other ways that they absolutely necessitate a visit. 'Major' zoos are large, popular, recognizable, or stand out in some way, but aren't quite to the 'elite' level.

Sub-majors normally have something holding them back from being 'major' but are otherwise most of the way there and the case could be made for many to be moved up. Minor zoos are smaller facilities with less of a reach and factors like size, popularity, or recognition holding them from being 'sub-major'. Lastly 'obscure' zoos are ones that are not recognizable, large, or serving a large population center, the example being my 'home' zoo.

My rankings are probably highly debatable, and I'd be fine moving things around, this is just how things stand in my mind currently.

View attachment 743973

Few Questions-
• Why is there no Cleveland on this list since I’d argue it’s better than many of these zoos?
• Why is Brookfield so high?
• Why is NC, DC and Minnesota so low?

 

[PossumRoach]

The Brookfield Zoo is one of the worst zoos I've ever been to. I don't understand why anyone could view the facility so positively. The conclusion I'm forced to draw for why people rate it so highly is that they overlook how horrible the exhibitry is because they have a few rare species.

Maybe I have no say in this since I never been to Brookfield, but let me tell you, as someone who had the “honor” to grow up in a city with an inexcusable zoo at the time, I would trade having Brookfield as my local zoo. Even if the exhibits aren’t perfect, Brookfield is still an important facility within the region (if not the US). Something that cannot be said about my local childhood zoo in Turkey.

 

[USZOOfan42]

Maybe I have no say in this since I never been to Brookfield, but let me tell you, as someone who had the “honor” to grow up in a city with an inexcusable zoo at the time, I would trade having Brookfield as my local zoo. Even if the exhibits aren’t perfect, Brookfield is still an important facility within the region (if not the US). Something that cannot be said about my local childhood zoo in Turkey.

I’d like to add that there are multiple facilities in the area which I’d argue almost all of them are better. Lincoln Park is a lot higher quality zoo, Shedd is arguably better (I prefer Brookfield), and also ones that are 1-2 hours away. My closest facility is Detroit which is an hour away compared to large cities having multiple facilities at every corner.

 

[Kalaw]

• Why is there no Cleveland on this list since I’d argue it’s better than many of these zoos?

Cleveland is on there, just below Minnesota in ‘sub-major.’

 

[birdsandbats]

I’d like to add that there are multiple facilities in the area which I’d argue almost all of them are better. Lincoln Park is a lot higher quality zoo, Shedd is arguably better (I prefer Brookfield), and also ones that are 1-2 hours away. My closest facility is Detroit which is an hour away compared to large cities having multiple facilities at every corner.

Shedd is absolutely better than Brookfield, no argument there. But Lincoln Park, with its drastically smaller size, simply cannot compete with Brookfield IMO.

 

[JVM]

Shedd is absolutely better than Brookfield, no argument there. But Lincoln Park, with its drastically smaller size, simply cannot compete with Brookfield IMO.

Exhibit quality for animal welfare wins out.

Regenstein Center for African Apes > Tropic World

Regenstein African Journey > Habitat Africa! The Savanna

Pepper Family Wildlife Center > Big Cat Walkway

McCormick Bird House > Feathers snd Scales

Camel-Zebra Area > 31st Street Yards (both are not great though)

Two of Brookfield's three most interesting exhibits are Habitat Africa! The Forest and Australia House, neither of which have a direct equivalence at Lincoln Park. The other is Regenstein Wolf Woods.

There are only a few species with better accomodations at Brookfield than Lincoln Park: pygmy hippoptamus, wolves, kangaroo, bats, red river hog, snow leopard, small-clawed otter, maybe sea lions

 

[birdsandbats]

Exhibit quality for animal welfare wins out.

Regenstein Center for African Apes > Tropic World

Regenstein African Journey > Habitat Africa! The Savanna

Pepper Family Wildlife Center > Big Cat Walkway

McCormick Bird House > Feathers snd Scales

Camel-Zebra Area > 31st Street Yards (both are not great though)

Two of Brookfield's three most interesting exhibits are Habitat Africa! The Forest and Australia House, neither of which have a direct equivalence at Lincoln Park. The other is Regenstein Wolf Woods.

There are only a few species with better accomodations at Brookfield than Lincoln Park: pygmy hippoptamus, wolves, kangaroo, bats, red river hog, snow leopard, small-clawed otter, maybe sea lions

But:

Tropic World > Helen Brach Primate House

Also I really don't think the Camel-Zebra Area or Regenstien African Journey are clearly better than their Brookfield counterparts. And especially not the Pepper Family Wildlife Center, which, while an excellent Lion exhibit, has literally nothing else. Brookfield, simply put, has a much larger and more complete collection than Lincoln Park. Many of the areas of Brookfield you did not mention here are my favorite parts. I love Lincoln Park. But I choose Brookfield over it any day of the week. In fact, it's not even close.

 

[USZOOfan42]

But:

Tropic World > Helen Brach Primate House

Also I really don't think the Camel-Zebra Area or Regenstien African Journey are clearly better than their Brookfield counterparts. And especially not the Pepper Family Wildlife Center, which, while an excellent Lion exhibit, has literally nothing else. Brookfield, simply put, has a much larger and more complete collection than Lincoln Park. Many of the areas of Brookfield you did not mention here are my favorite parts. I love Lincoln Park. But I choose Brookfield over it any day of the week. In fact, it's not even close.

But we have to remember quality over quantity. Brookfield’s aged cat grottos should be demolished soon as possible while I’d argue Lincoln park’s is the best I’ve seen for lions. The camel-zebra area has more species and rarities. It also seems somewhat impressive to me. There is no doubt African journey is better. Has the same animals minus the antelope plus many others. An amazing rhino habitat, and an very immersive experience.

 

[birdsandbats]

But we have to remember quality over quantity. Brookfield’s aged cat grottos should be demolished soon as possible while I’d argue Lincoln park’s is the best I’ve seen for lions. The camel-zebra area has more species and rarities. It also seems somewhat impressive to me. There is no doubt African journey is better. Has the same animals minus the antelope plus many others. An amazing rhino habitat, and an very immersive experience.

I simply do not share your so extreme definition of quality over quantity. Quality is very important, no doubt. But there are other factors. If quality was the only thing that matters, then Wildwood Zoo is one of the best zoos in the country. But no one says that.

Also, same animals? There are lots of animals that are in one of those African exhibits but not the other.

 

[CMP]

Why is NC, DC and Minnesota so low?

IMO each are lacking in a few areas to be truly called 'major' zoos. NC is large but with few species, the upcoming Asia and Australia sections could do a lot to change that. Similarly, I feel like DC is not large or diverse enough to truly be called major, it fits in better with LPZ and Philly than Dallas, Columbus, or Denver. Minnesota has a great indoor collection but with so few species outdoors, I don't think I can place it any higher. That being said, I haven't visited any of them so I definitely could change my opinion.

 

[USZOOfan42]

I simply do not share your so extreme definition of quality over quantity. Quality is very important, no doubt. But there are other factors. If quality was the only thing that matters, then Wildwood Zoo is one of the best zoos in the country. But no one says that.

Also, same animals? There are lots of animals that are in one of those African exhibits but not the other.

Lincoln Park’s Africa section only doesn’t contain one or two herps, mongooses, and antelope. Yet they hold Pygmy hippos, zebras, rhinos, aardvarks, meerkats, klipspringers, primates?, and a wider variety of birds.

 

[birdsandbats]

Lincoln Park’s Africa section only doesn’t contain one or two herps, mongooses, and antelope. Yet they hold Pygmy hippos, zebras, rhinos, aardvarks, meerkats, klipspringers, primates?, and a wider variety of birds.

Species in Regenstein African Journey but not Habitat Africa! The Savanna: Red River Hog, African Penguin, Hadada Ibis, Abdim's Stork, African Spoonbill, Blue-billed Teal, Diana Monkey, African Dwarf Crocodile, Common Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, Pygmy Hippo, Klipspringer, Red-billed Hornbill, Eastern Crested Guineafowl, Blue-bellied Roller, Meerkat, Aardvark, Black Rhino, various Lake Malawi cichlids

Species in Habitat Africa! The Savanna but not Regenstien African Journey: Taveta Weaver, White-cheeked Turaco, Emerald Starling, Violet-backed Starling, Common Bulbul, Speckled Mousebird, Common Dwarf Mongoose, Pancake Tortoise, White-throated Monitor, Giant Plated Lizard, African Spurred Tortoise, Leopard Tortoise, Grass Carp, Lowland Nyala, Gray Crowned Crane, Kirk's Dik-Dik

Overlap Species: Generic Giraffe, that's literally it

Of course, Regenstien African Journey is not strictly a savanna exhibit, so it really should be compared to Habitat Africa! as a whole...

 

[USZOOfan42]

Species in Regenstein African Journey but not Habitat Africa! The Savanna: Red River Hog, African Penguin, Hadada Ibis, Abdim's Stork, African Spoonbill, Blue-billed Teal, Diana Monkey, African Dwarf Crocodile, Common Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, Pygmy Hippo, Klipspringer, Red-billed Hornbill, Eastern Crested Guineafowl, Blue-bellied Roller, Meerkat, Aardvark, Black Rhino, various Lake Malawi cichlids

Species in Habitat Africa! The Savanna but not Regenstien African Journey: Taveta Weaver, White-cheeked Turaco, Emerald Starling, Violet-backed Starling, Common Bulbul, Speckled Mousebird, Common Dwarf Mongoose, Pancake Tortoise, White-throated Monitor, Giant Plated Lizard, African Spurred Tortoise, Leopard Tortoise, Grass Carp, Lowland Nyala, Gray Crowned Crane, Kirk's Dik-Dik

Overlap Species: Generic Giraffe, that's literally it

Of course, Regenstien African Journey is not strictly a savanna exhibit, so it really should be compared to Habitat Africa! as a whole...

I’d like to also add painted dogs as overlap species, I found Habitat Africa! The savanna somewhat disappointing compared to Lincoln Parks, it just felt empty and was lacking in life.

 

[birdsandbats]

I’d like to also add painted dogs as overlap species, I found Habitat Africa! The savanna somewhat disappointing compared to Lincoln Parks, it just felt empty and was lacking in life.

You're right, I blanked on the Painted Dogs for some reason. Still, that's not much overlap.

 

[CMP]

You're right, I blanked on the Painted Dogs for some reason. Still, that's not much overlap.

Brookfield has the better area for Painted Dogs too