Pairi Daiza Opinions about Pairi Daiza

But I seem to miss the point according to some of you because Pairi Daiza has money en other zoo's don't. So other zoo's are allowed to keep animals in terrible enclosures to get more visitor's instead of relocating animals (to other zoo's). And Pairi Daiza can't keep animals in average enclosures because they use their money for a bigger plan. Yeah sure.. you can always look at a situation in such a way that your arguments are valid.

You are still missing the point.

There is a difference between having an inadequate (or, below average, outdated etc.) enclosure as a legacy from a bygone age, and building an inadequate (etc.) enclosure from scratch.

As most of us know, zoos cannot replace all exhibits the second they become outdated. We also know that relocating animals is stressful, sometimes risky, and requires adaptation, and in the case of old, surplus or hybrid animals, relocation may not even be possible. The choice then, often, is between euthanasia, moving behind the scenes (usually in worse conditions than on show) or maintaining the current situation (which is also the one the animal has lived in for often years or decades). Often renovations are planned somewhere down the line, or the enclosure is planned to demolished if the current inhabitant(s) die(s). All these conditions temper criticism and foster some sort of (often reluctant) acceptance for the current state, especially when it comes to a topic so nuanced and multi-dimensional as animal welfare.

If one is building an inadequate exhibit from scratch, all these conditions do not apply. You are already moving animals, you know modern husbandry standards, and the point that not everything can be changed at once is also not valid here. This is not only true for Pairi Daiza, but also for more established zoos. Burgers' elephant stable is outdated, but it was build in a different time, the zoo purposefully only houses two elderly females, and unfortunately one cannot simply wish upon a star to renovate it in an instant. And its inadequacy didn't come in an instant, but the realization that is not up to standard has grown over the years. I can accept that, though I am glad they're planning to improve it. But if they were to design and build a stable like that today, or purposefully bring in an animal and put in an inadequate enclosure, I and probably everyone else here would rightfully criticize it. Even for one of the most beloved zoos by members of this site.

Pairi Daiza has build entirely new enclosures that seemingly* walk the wire between acceptable and inadequate - which means they'll probably be considered inadequate within a decade or two - and sometimes even below that. Or they finally move an animal out of an outdated exhibit, only to replace with an animal for which it is just as bad or little better. This is not legacy from a bygone time, they should and could have done better. This is especially glaring in this situation, because Pairi Daiza seemingly* has more financial resources than almost any other zoo.

* Of course I do not know all details, so I won't make any definitive judgement.
 
You are still missing the point.

There is a difference between having an inadequate (or, below average, outdated etc.) enclosure as a legacy from a bygone age, and building an inadequate (etc.) enclosure from scratch.

As most of us know, zoos cannot replace all exhibits the second they become outdated. We also know that relocating animals is stressful, sometimes risky, and requires adaptation, and in the case of old, surplus or hybrid animals, relocation may not even be possible. The choice then, often, is between euthanasia, moving behind the scenes (usually in worse conditions than on show) or maintaining the current situation (which is also the one the animal has lived in for often years or decades). Often renovations are planned somewhere down the line, or the enclosure is planned to demolished if the current inhabitant(s) die(s). All these conditions temper criticism and foster some sort of (often reluctant) acceptance for the current state, especially when it comes to a topic so nuanced and multi-dimensional as animal welfare.

If one is building an inadequate exhibit from scratch, all these conditions do not apply. You are already moving animals, you know modern husbandry standards, and the point that not everything can be changed at once is also not valid here. This is not only true for Pairi Daiza, but also for more established zoos. Burgers' elephant stable is outdated, but it was build in a different time, the zoo purposefully only houses two elderly females, and unfortunately one cannot simply wish upon a star to renovate it in an instant. And its inadequacy didn't come in an instant, but the realization that is not up to standard has grown over the years. I can accept that, though I am glad they're planning to improve it. But if they were to design and build a stable like that today, or purposefully bring in an animal and put in an inadequate enclosure, I and probably everyone else here would rightfully criticize it. Even for one of the most beloved zoos by members of this site.

Pairi Daiza has build entirely new enclosures that seemingly* walk the wire between acceptable and inadequate - which means they'll probably be considered inadequate within a decade or two - and sometimes even below that. Or they finally move an animal out of an outdated exhibit, only to replace with an animal for which it is just as bad or little better. This is not legacy from a bygone time, they should and could have done better. This is especially glaring in this situation, because Pairi Daiza seemingly* has more financial resources than almost any other zoo.

* Of course I do not know all details, so I won't make any definitive judgement.

Just to add, Pairi Daiza isn't the only one to build bad enclosures in the 21st century. But others like Hagenbeck and their relatively new polar bear enclosure do also get their fair share of criticism.

The Pairi Daiza number 1 is actually something they didn't even have to make up themselves. They were awarded this title by the Diamond Theme Park Awards, a relatively small Belgian initiative. IIRC Beauval and Safaripark Beekse Bergen completed the top-3. These awards haven't been handed out the past years, but for Pairi Daiza they were a gift from heaven.

I would say Pairi Daiza is indeed the number one in cultural (over-the-top) theming (as opposed to to-the-point theming of Zurich) and sells the most unique zoo experience of them all. That is why I do enjoy visiting, but you can't look past its flaws...
 
Some people make fair points. But if I have to believe some other people Pairi Daiza is a horrible place to visit. With animals suffering in super bad enclosures.
In general Pairi Daiza has fine standards for it's enclosures. A few could be better (and need to be in my opnion). But I seem to miss the point according to some of you because Pairi Daiza has money en other zoo's don't. So other zoo's are allowed to keep animals in terrible enclosures to get more visitor's instead of relocating animals (to other zoo's). And Pairi Daiza can't keep animals in average enclosures because they use their money for a bigger plan. Yeah sure.. you can always look at a situation in such a way that your arguments are valid.
The only reason Pairi Daiza is developing so quickly is because they to do the things as they do now. It's alright if not everyone can appreciate. I do and I am looking forward for everything that has to come the next few years.

Don't get me wrong. If I thought Pairi Daiza was so bad, I wouldn't be an annual pass holder for years.
Having money is not the issue. How you use it is most important: the temples for White Tigers and Java Panther are the best examples of money being spent incorrectly (for the visitor, not for the animals)

You mentioned the growth of Pairi Daiza, but keep in mind that in Wallonia nothing can't be done with local support and politics: we can discuss the relationship between Mons2015, the Giant Panda and the Prime Minister or simply ask Bart de Wever his thoughts.
The impact Pairi Daiza has on the surroundings/environment is also significant: traffic jams, saturated roads in the villages around the park, impact on landscape/rivers/countryside

The way of making money is also debatable: selling a book including pictures made by fans without asking them and removing their "copyright/watermark".

And I'm not even discussing the most toxic fanbase I have ever seen: it's safer to say "The last trilogy is the best" in a Star Wars fans group than ask questions/have doubts in the Pairi Daiza fan's community.

It's a nice zoo that wants to be the Disneyland of the zoo...but it doesn't mean everything is perfect :)
 
Several species will get a new home. Like the raccoon dogs and the Japanese macaques in the new Japanese world. So old enclosures might be used to give some species more space as well
Any idea what else might go into the new Japanese area? Japan doesn't really have any major or flagship species does it. More Bears? Sika Deer?
 
Any idea what else might go into the new Japanese area? Japan doesn't really have any major or flagship species does it. More Bears? Sika Deer?
There will be indeed sika deer, apart from the Japanese macaques and raccoon dogs that are already part of the collection. Weirdly, the new school brochure also implies that the siamangs (which formerly had their island at the current site of the Japanese World) will also be part of the new area.
 
The way of making money is also debatable: selling a book including pictures made by fans without asking them and removing their "copyright/watermark".

But with that you should not have a problem, when you'd sue them for using a picture without permission.
 
But with that you should not have a problem, when you'd sue them for using a picture without permission.

The problem is, most people don't have the money to even afford to sue a party owned by a millionaire, even if they would be entirely justified in doing so. The fact that legal fees would be pocket change for Pairi Daiza but a lot of money for the people whose photos were used is a pretty significant one, sadly.

The same logic is used all the time here in the UK by public figures who handle criticism by bombarding online critics with legal threats for defamation - even if the criticism is valid and doesn't legally count as defamation, much of the time the critics wouldn't be able to afford the legal process to defend themselves, and hence are forced to retract.
 
I have a dream, that Mr Eric Domb of Pairi Daiza uses his money and contacts to bring fresh blood of endangered species, and bring completely new endangered species to the world's zoos.

There are endangered species in zoos which are highly inbred. All Gaurs in the West descend from only 5, all Mishmi Takins from 3. There are endangered animals which for decades have been in need of zoo insurance population, like Pygmy Hogs from Assam, Mountain Nyala of Ethiopia, White-thighed Colobus of Ghana and Nigeria, or Inaccessible Island Flightless Rail.

A millionaire, with his money, personal connections and skills in organizing projects, could do things which conservationists could not. Conservationists generally know much about animals, but lack personal connections in local politics, understanding how the power flows locally - so important in getting bureaucratic permits done etc. A
much better idea than building an ape cage from marble, isn't it?
 
Personally, I like Pairi Daiza a lot. Nice theming, lots of animals, always new things to show, projects that go pretty fast in comparison to other zoos (Zoo Antwerp with the tiger, snow leopard and bear enclosures for example), nice accomodation, lots of things they organise, … the park isn’t perfect, but there is SO much potential and lots of money (Eric Domb and Marc Coucke) that it can keep growing. The Sanctuary is destined to be giant. I hope they surprise us with a lot of new animals and I wonder how everything will look when it’s al finishes.
 
Personally, I like Pairi Daiza a lot. Nice theming, lots of animals, always new things to show, projects that go pretty fast in comparison to other zoos (Zoo Antwerp with the tiger, snow leopard and bear enclosures for example), nice accomodation, lots of things they organise, … the park isn’t perfect, but there is SO much potential and lots of money (Eric Domb and Marc Coucke) that it can keep growing. The Sanctuary is destined to be giant. I hope they surprise us with a lot of new animals and I wonder how everything will look when it’s al finishes.

Every zoo has so much potential. Just in PD they have already the funds to use that potential… but they don’t. And I think that speaks volumes.
 
First and foremost, I would like to see Domb build better animal enclosures with all his money, instead of spending it on expensive theming and theatrical panda exits.

I know they can afford to build new and large exhibits at a much faster rate than is possible in most zoos, but to my eye some of the newer ones in particular look rushed and often in a cramped space.. The whole North American area is very bare. The Siberian tiger area is very small for the number of tigers. The Walrus area is remarkably small, like a thin channel (designed to keep them near the underwater viewing glass I'm sure) and tiny land space. The European bear and wolves again rather bare. I do like the Stellar Sealion enclosure though the other Fur Seal enclosure pool is far too small for them. Worst I saw was the enclosure for three female Wapiti- terrible.
 
Tbh, am I the only one who's disappointed about "Prehi Daiza" not actually having paleo accurate models?

Quite late reply but better late than never as we say lol. No, you're not. I didn't see the exposition in real life for now and don't think anytime soon(I may be wrong). Not that i don't like the idea but i'm quite disappointed to see "Jurassic Park-esque" models. They don't even try to hide it with their raptors being a copy-paste of Blue ! This+AI images on the official website makes me "uneasy" about Prehi Daiza. Also, what's the point of having both JP and accurate Spinosaurus side by side if you don't explain why they're so different ? And their cave bear that looks like a short faced bear. I'll stop here because if not, i'm gonna make a paleontology course :D
 
To keep the debate about Pairi Daiza going, 'i'm gonna give my opinion. It's complicated to make it simple.

This park is a part of my childhood. I didn't go there many times due to the prices but i had never been disappointed by any of my visits. I remember that back when i was in primary school, the school went to it by train. Back then, i even got the chance to give some apples to Asian elephants ! Suzy, the African elephant didn't have her own enclosure at that time.

So, i got a bit both of bias and judgement concerning Pairi Daiza. As much as i love the park for nostalgia and because of it's status of one of the largest and most beautiful belgian zoos (nobody can deny the beauty of theming), it's far from perfect and i really believe that as much as i love zoos in general, no place will ever be perfect. Nature can't be replicated 1:1.

Concerning the negative parts: the enclosure/exhibits. As many already said, some enclosure quality and space are questionnable to say the least. I especially think of the now black panther's one. Animal origins controversy aside, this exhibit is outdated as many said ! This exhibit is far too small for 3 apex SOLITARY predators ! Back when Pelangi was there, it was already not great in terms of space, but at least it was ok for one individual, but clearly not for 3. Especially when there's no means to separate them without much trouble. At least they have multiple climbing structures to reduce boredom but it's not enough to me.

The panther exhibit is not the only "black sheep"(pun not done on purpose lol) of the park, there's some others like the Siberian tiger one and others(can't make a full list since i don't know each one of them). Exhibit quality aside, the park cares about their animals, you don't see often if ever sick looking, wounded or dying animals. Yeah there were a few instances of accidental deaths like the bear one but it could have happened in any zoo.

Some people nickname Pairi Daiza "The Belgian Disneyland" and it's not far from the truth. A magnificent park with expensive theming(and tickets) but with uneven quality of services. This might be biased but even when i'm disappointed by some decisions made by the park(Prehi Daiza or the black panthers origins for example), i can't hate it. We can conclude by: It's better to go there yourself to make your own opinion and don't make yourself to much high expectations to prevent disappointment.
 
Is there any (serious) zoo where you often see wounded or dying animals?

Of course not, but sadly this happens questionnable parks... You're right that serious zoos won't let it happen, just tried to say that Pairi Daiza is one of them. Not my best argument i admit it
 
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