North American Asian Elephant Reproduction

Devastating news. Albuquerque needed this calf. I hope this prompts ABQ to move in a new bull who can fully utilize what likely little is left of Rozie's reproductive future, or at least reevaluate their current situation.
I agree. Whilst Albert is capable he isn't the bull they want siring another two or three calves with Rozie, hence why AI was used this time around too. Any other proven, valuable bull would be be better for this situation, especially considering the expense and non guarantee of AI.
 
I agree. Whilst Albert is capable he isn't the bull they want siring another two or three calves with Rozie, hence why AI was used this time around too. Any other proven, valuable bull would be be better for this situation, especially considering the expense and non guarantee of AI.
Unless they've simply haven't been giving Albert the oppertunity to breed Rozie (which I find unlikely) it seems he hasn't even been successful in getting her pregnant for the better part of a decade. They desperately need a new bull onsite that can produce calves in short intervals (Not to mention, doesn't Albert still have TB? He can't breed her anyway if he's still positive). She could in theory be bred into her 40s assuming her reproductive condition is healthy. While she hasn't been consistently bred she has had four calves and would be a prime candidate considering her value and lack of daughters.
However, I don't really see any proven bulls that could make the transfer, and I feel a proven bull is key here.
 
Unless they've simply haven't been giving Albert the oppertunity to breed Rozie (which I find unlikely) it seems he hasn't even been successful in getting her pregnant for the better part of a decade. They desperately need a new bull onsite that can produce calves in short intervals (Not to mention, doesn't Albert still have TB? He can't breed her anyway if he's still positive). She could in theory be bred into her 40s assuming her reproductive condition is healthy. While she hasn't been consistently bred she has had four calves and would be a prime candidate considering her value and lack of daughters.
However, I don't really see any proven bulls that could make the transfer, and I feel a proven bull is key here.
It's a bit difficult to measure whether he is still a viable bull, as you say he has no results to prove it since Daizy's birth back in 2009. When his brother was back on site, it's possible that only Samson was given the opportunity to breed with Rozie (both of them couldn't have been in with her at the same time). Perhaps he was preferred over Albert for some reason or another. Cows cycle over a period of a few days too, so it's also possible both bulls had the chance and Samson just prevailed, maybe having access to her first.

This time around, AI would have surely been done first as soon as her cycle began, with Albert given the chance afterwards. If the AI procedure somehow didn't work (which is unlikely), he would've acted as a back up but in the case the procedure was successful (as it was this time around), he wouldn't have been able to impregnate her!

On Albert, he does still have TB so is spending all of his time by himself from what I've heard.

On the topic of potential bulls, there isn't that many bulls available. The only ones I can think of are Johnson (at Columbus) and Raja (soon to be at Columbus). The only issue here is Albert would need to be sent elsewhere for a new bull to be acquired and this would be very difficult with Albert's current health status.
 
It's a bit difficult to measure whether he is still a viable bull, as you say he has no results to prove it since Daizy's birth back in 2009. When his brother was back on site, it's possible that only Samson was given the opportunity to breed with Rozie (both of them couldn't have been in with her at the same time). Perhaps he was preferred over Albert for some reason or another. Cows cycle over a period of a few days too, so it's also possible both bulls had the chance and Samson just prevailed, maybe having access to her first.

This time around, AI would have surely been done first as soon as her cycle began, with Albert given the chance afterwards. If the AI procedure somehow didn't work (which is unlikely), he would've acted as a back up but in the case the procedure was successful (as it was this time around), he wouldn't have been able to impregnate her!

On Albert, he does still have TB so is spending all of his time by himself from what I've heard.

On the topic of potential bulls, there isn't that many bulls available. The only ones I can think of are Johnson (at Columbus) and Raja (soon to be at Columbus). The only issue here is Albert would need to be sent elsewhere for a new bull to be acquired and this would be very difficult with Albert's current health status.
Albert would not need to be sent elsewhere. ABQ has the space to hold more than one bull at a time. 2-3 adult bulls specifically speaking. He also is not spending his time completely alone, he's been allowed to share a fence line with the girls.
 
It's a bit difficult to measure whether he is still a viable bull, as you say he has no results to prove it since Daizy's birth back in 2009. When his brother was back on site, it's possible that only Samson was given the opportunity to breed with Rozie (both of them couldn't have been in with her at the same time). Perhaps he was preferred over Albert for some reason or another. Cows cycle over a period of a few days too, so it's also possible both bulls had the chance and Samson just prevailed, maybe having access to her first.

This time around, AI would have surely been done first as soon as her cycle began, with Albert given the chance afterwards. If the AI procedure somehow didn't work (which is unlikely), he would've acted as a back up but in the case the procedure was successful (as it was this time around), he wouldn't have been able to impregnate her!

On Albert, he does still have TB so is spending all of his time by himself from what I've heard.

On the topic of potential bulls, there isn't that many bulls available. The only ones I can think of are Johnson (at Columbus) and Raja (soon to be at Columbus). The only issue here is Albert would need to be sent elsewhere for a new bull to be acquired and this would be very difficult with Albert's current health status.
Rozie's last calf was conceived in 2016, so unless some other circumstances such as miscarriages occured that we aren't aware of, Albert hadn't been able to conceive a calf with Rozie for over 5 years. Evidently something is going on, whether it be on his end or Rozie's.

I took a look at the naturally proven bulls in the region and the only ones I can see moving would be Doc, Tommy and Samson. Doc would be a solid choice, but he has only produced bull calves, Tommy would be perfect but he's outside of the ssp, which would make it potentially tough to move him. Samson feels the most likely given that, as of last year, Oregon was reccomended to receive a new bull and Samson has has multiple calves with Rozie already. However given his failure to impregnate Rose-Tu over the past several years I can see why they may be hesitant to do so.

Of course an unproven bull is also an option, as there are loads of bachelors floating around, but I would hope a proven bull would be the choice here.
 
Albert would not need to be sent elsewhere. ABQ has the space to hold more than one bull at a time. 2-3 adult bulls specifically speaking. He also is not spending his time completely alone, he's been allowed to share a fence line with the girls.
Thank you for the correction, I was under the impression they only had two on display exhibits but thinking back they were able to hold Albert and Samson together as adult bulls for many years so I'd assume they have a sizeable amount of BOH facilities to accommodate this.

Albert is not sharing the same space as the other elephants, so is technically still being kept 'on his own'. Its amiss to say otherwise.
 
Rozie's last calf was conceived in 2016, so unless some other circumstances such as miscarriages occured that we aren't aware of, Albert hadn't been able to conceive a calf with Rozie for over 5 years. Evidently something is going on, whether it be on his end or Rozie's.
We don't even know if ABQ allowed Rozie to bred with Albert though during that time, so we can't say for sure!
 
We don't even know if ABQ allowed Rozie to bred with Albert though during that time, so we can't say for sure!

It was not clear if Rozie got pregnant as a result of natural breeding with Albert or AI. Both happened in February 2023. A paternity test was going to be done after the birth of the calf. But with the unfortunate stillbirth I doubt they will ever confirm who the father was.
 
We don't even know if ABQ allowed Rozie to bred with Albert though during that time, so we can't say for sure!
This is true! I doubt we'll ever be able to say for sure. However it is certian now that Albert is not the bull they need considering his TB diagnosis, which hopefully points to them aiming to receive a new bull in the near future.
 
Albert is not sharing the same space as the other elephants, so is technically still being kept 'on his own'. It’s amiss to say otherwise.
Respectfully, from a QOL and husbandry standpoint he’s not on his own because he still has tactile and visual access to the girls. I’m only pushing back so hard on this because ARA’s love to push the alone narrative even with tactile and visual access which is just as enriching as sharing the same space.

As for their exhibit, it’s pretty spacious. Their bull barn if I remember correctly has two sand stalls and one or two concrete stalls with an ERD. Each sand stall connects to an outdoor paddock and an adjacent main exhibit yard. They have two other barns one of which a bull can be mixed into and three main exhibit yards that the cows and bulls all rotate through. If I had to put a number on it, I’d say they could easily hold a breeding herd of 7-9 individuals on top of a bachelor herd of 3-5 like Houston does.

As for the talk about him being the bull for the job, he wasn’t breeding with Rozie until 2022- 2023 as she had her 2 year old son thorn and 8 year old daughter Jazmine who at the time had begun cycling and was his neice. AFAIK they were on the lookout for a new breeding bull for both Jazmine and Rozie. His TB diagnosis has nothing to do with his ability to breed either. Most TB treatments take at a minimum 12 months of continuous treating before it returns to its dormant phase and Albert is right at that threshold and should be cleared in the months to come barring any unforeseen challenges.

Seeing as this is a Speculative thread if a new bull were to be sent it would be someone close by and not across the country like Doc. If anything it would be someone from Denver’s bachelor herd like Billy and Bodhi or Houston’s Tucker.
 
Most TB treatments take at a minimum 12 months of continuous treating before it returns to its dormant phase and Albert is right at that threshold and should be cleared in the months to come barring any unforeseen challenges.
Glad to hear he may be soon in the clear! I was under the impression that TB was harder to treat in elephants, but I am more than happy that my impression was wrong. It would make infinitely more sense for ABQ to continue using Albert if he is indeed capable of breeding again soon. Despite his subpar genetic value, he has no offspring to his name and is a proven breeder. It wouldn't be a bad thing for them to obtain a second bull like Columbus however, just to maximize chances of calves.
 
Jazmine who at the time had begun cycling and was his neice. AFAIK they were on the lookout for a new breeding bull for both Jazmine and Rozie
I seem to remember hearing this too - it would have made sense as Jasmine was quickly approaching breeding age. Obviously with her passing it's now lessened the need for an additional bull but considering Albert's value I don't think it would hurt to still acquire another bull for the reasons we've previously stated.
Seeing as this is a Speculative thread if a new bull were to be sent it would be someone close by and not across the country like Doc. If anything it would be someone from Denver’s bachelor herd like Billy and Bodhi or Houston’s Tucker.
Bohdi especially would be great considering his genetic value. The fact that Houston seems to be hanging onto Tucker seems to indicate to me they see him being retained in the meantime with the value as a mentor bull at the very least or even breeding (I know he was recommended to breed with Joy).
 
I seem to remember hearing this too - it would have made sense as Jasmine was quickly approaching breeding age. Obviously with her passing it's now lessened the need for an additional bull but considering Albert's value I don't think it would hurt to still acquire another bull for the reasons we've previously stated.

Bohdi especially would be great considering his genetic value. The fact that Houston seems to be hanging onto Tucker seems to indicate to me they see him being retained in the meantime with the value as a mentor bull at the very least or even breeding (I know he was recommended to breed with Joy).
As of last year, both bulls were reccomended to move to different facilities, so unless plans have changed I don't think either would be going to Albuquerque. Tucker no longer has a breeding reccomendation with Joy afaik but they are retaining him for the time being.
Bodhi would be a strong option though and would honestly be my pick to move there.
 
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