North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

The last paragraph or so in that article did have someone say that they could build of state of the art facility for African Elephants, but they're prob spitballing, bc they don't have any official plans for it as they would have to suss out any parts of the zoo grounds that could potentially make an appropriate habitat for Africans. So they might stop having asian elephants in the future but they could have the other species at some point. Reid park (with having 1 asian as her african companion in the old habitat), Birmingham, and Freso are some us zoos that phased out Asians who lived in cramped ugly habitats, then brought in Africans who lived in much bigger and more naturalistic ones.
 
Something to keep in mind, as per Dr. Gary West from later on in the article, with regards to whether Phoenix would discontinue the elephant exhibit once Indu passes on:

"The current one, yes. You know, we haven't had a lot of internal discussions about what the future holds, but, you know, we've had some high-level discussions, if we got back into elephants down the road, you know, African elephants probably would be a better fit for the desert and for our climate, but it would take a huge investment. And we'd have to look at space and where that would be at the zoo or on the property of the zoo. So, that's just been sort of a pie-in-the-sky discussion, but there really isn't any plans for elephants right now."
 
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The Horse Boy said:
I think the enclosure is more or less 1 acre. In my opinion, that's prefect for doing bull groups, or even small matrilineal herds w breeding bulls like toledo does.
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I know the manager and she said they had discussions about a bachelor herd or sending rhe elephants to TES but the upper management wanted to go to this direction. This was years ago. No more elephants. It will be the rhinos.
 
ZCChip said:
I


I know the manager and she said they had discussions about a bachelor herd or sending the elephants to TES but the upper management wanted to go to this direction. This was years ago. No more elephants. It will be the rhinos.
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Well maybe no elephants forever as the last part of the article said. Just no more asian elephant and their current habitat will no longer be used for the species. And besides, there's always the tucson one for phoenix area residents. I haven't seen it in person but it looks to be one of the best zoo African Elephant habitats in the states.
 
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Nile Hippo Expert said:
They actually just got a second male Indian rhino who will be kept separated from their other one as they are half-brothers and the older one is fully mature, so they can’t be together. The arrival of that rhino may have been a key indicator for the decision for phasing-out elephants.
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that’s news to me. They have the barn they could work with an elephant and two rhino bulls but it would be tricky with two male rhinos and indu alternating the big habitat. It was simple with indu and sheena as a pair and Reba alternating through the day.
 
I got the scoop. The first male rhino and indu share the main enclosure with a barrier between them. They have a great relationship. Not sure about the new one. I will try to get more info next time.
 
The Horse Boy said:
Well maybe no elephants forever as the last part of the article said. Just no more asian elephant and their current habitat will no longer be used for the species. And besides, there's always the tucson one for phoenix area residents. I haven't seen it in person but it looks to be one of the best zoo African Elephant habitats in the states.
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it is no more elephants.
 
ZCChip said:
it is no more elephants.
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Well I suppose much of their africa area has enough land they at least repurpose for a world class enclosure for african elephants. But that may be years down the road and it's not an official plan from the zoo management.
 
The Horse Boy said:
Well I suppose much of their africa area has enough land they at least repurpose for a world class enclosure for african elephants. But that may be years down the road and it's not an official plan from the zoo management.
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I think you are talking about Tucson? This is Phoenix zoo.
 
ZCChip said:
I think you are talking about Tucson? This is Phoenix zoo.
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Yeah indeed I'm talking about the Phoenix Zoo. The african area may look to have quite a bit of unused land they can use for an African Elephant facility as good as tucson's down south.
 
The Horse Boy said:
Yeah indeed I'm talking about the Phoenix Zoo. The african area may look to have quite a bit of unused land they can use for an African Elephant facility as good as tucson's down south.
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they do have a breeding herd. I do not know their long term plan. Soon there will be a need of facilities to hold a bachelor herd but Phoenix is not it. Maybe Tyler, Atlanta, Birmingham, or el paso or …
 
ZCChip said:
they do have a breeding herd. I do not know their long term plan. Soon there will be a need of facilities to hold a bachelor herd but Phoenix is not it. Maybe Tyler, Atlanta, Birmingham, or el paso or …
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El paso just phased out elephants last year. And the Caldwell Zoo already has a couple young African bulls with one geriatric cow. But I'm still unsure if the fences at the latter can withstand full grown bulls or bulls in general.
 
The Horse Boy said:
El paso just phased out elephants last year. And the Caldwell Zoo already has a couple young African bulls with one geriatric cow. But I'm still unsure if the fences at the latter can withstand full grown bulls or bulls in general.
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yes but El Paso has talked about renovating. If they have young African bulls the fence will hold up just fine. :)
 
The Horse Boy said:
Does that still mean caldwell is capable of holding mature bulls like msholo mabu sdudla or ali from jacksonville?
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Trust me. If they are capable of holding young african bulls, they certainly will with a mature bull. The young bulls have more energy than the mature bulls. They both require taller and stronger fences.
 
ZCChip said:
Trust me. If they are capable of holding young african bulls, they certainly will with a mature bull. The young bulls have more energy than the mature bulls. They both require taller and stronger fences.
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I'm glad tyler seems committed to elephants for the future. They looks to have a modern expansive facility. There looks to have been an explosive number of African bull calf births in american zoos over the past few years and they will all need to leave their natal herds in the coming years. And I'm not sure birmingham can hold more than 4 elephants, so caldwell would be a good option for okubili at Dallas, the two fresno boys, and any bull calves from sedgwick and omaha when they are instructed to leave their birth herds.
 
Honestly I don't think we will have a massive need for more bachelor facilities for several years. As facilities are being rennovated/built, the AZA is pushing for those facilities to have space to hold bachelors if they can't already. Omaha and Sedgwick for example will certianly have that capability sooner rather than later, and Dallas already does (and has in the past). Even if Cadwell and Tyler can't take anymore bulls, then certianly most young bulls needing holding will turn to San Diego, which has a spacious capacity from what I understand.
I think it is also important to note that young bulls are leaving their natal herds later and later (as temperament allows), so it will probably be the better part of a decade before we see some of these bulls needing holding.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Honestly I don't think we will have a massive need for more bachelor facilities for several years. As facilities are being rennovated/built, the AZA is pushing for those facilities to have space to hold bachelors if they can't already. Omaha and Sedgwick for example will certianly have that capability sooner rather than later, and Dallas already does (and has in the past). Even if Cadwell and Tyler can't take anymore bulls, then certianly most young bulls needing holding will turn to San Diego, which has a spacious capacity from what I understand.
I think it is also important to note that young bulls are leaving their natal herds later and later (as temperament allows), so it will probably be the better part of a decade before we see some of these bulls needing holding.
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I know the dallas zoo has a breeding bull and young calf but I'm not sure Dallas Sedgwick and Omaha have the capability for a bachelor herd as they would most likely need a separate bachelor habitat and barn like houston does with their breeding herds.

I'm sure cheyenne mountain, Atlanta, maryland, milwaukee, memphis, and rodger williams can take some future adolescent boys in the future.
 
The Horse Boy said:
I know the dallas zoo has a breeding bull and young calf but I'm not sure Dallas Sedgwick and Omaha have the capability for a bachelor herd as they would most likely need a separate bachelor habitat and barn like houston does with their breeding herds.

I'm sure cheyenne mountain, Atlanta, maryland, milwaukee, memphis, and rodger williams can take some future adolescent boys in the future.
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Sedgwick and Omaha are already fundraising to expand their exhibits, something that absoloutely could feasibly occur before their young bulls need seperated. Dallas held a young bull separately to Tendaji prior (Ajabu) as well before his death.
The future trend in AZA breeding herds is bachelor herds onside rather than having to invest in several other holdings. While I am sure we'll see a handful of facilities opting to invest in bulls, most facilities are going to opt to expand and hold breeding herds (and there will be availability given the sheer amount of unrelated cows around) or phase out.
 
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